Well, spring is just cutting loose and its time to prep the boat for another racing season. I'm always amazed how few Hunter owners race their boats. Why?? I've been racing for more than 10 years now and we are doing pretty well now. Of course, in the beginning we got our asses kicked, but now we take no prisoners. Oh speaking of prep, I'm increasing the rake on the mast of my 35.5 to 18" now that I'm replacing the headstay this year. I strongly recommend that ALL headstays be replaced at 10 year intervals. The alternative is not a happy thought.
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Tough to be Competitive
We've got our boat in "cruising mode" with "tons" of stuff on board - not what you want in order to be competitive. A buddy with his Hobie 33 only has a porta pottie and no cushions or table and he races in our division. We've got four heavy-duty golf carts, regular 35# Delta, 45ft 5/16 chain, plus a storm anchor, refrigeration, 8 horse outboard, dingy, wind generator, and on and on. PHRF doesn't give any credit for all this stuff and it slows one down measurably. Not to mention regular old Petit Trinidad bottom paint (rolled not sprayed on). I'm not prepared to lug everything off for a race so we just race for the fun of it in the club beer can series leaving the top places for the die-hards. H-35 PHRF 123 (oh, and that's another reason)
We've got our boat in "cruising mode" with "tons" of stuff on board - not what you want in order to be competitive. A buddy with his Hobie 33 only has a porta pottie and no cushions or table and he races in our division. We've got four heavy-duty golf carts, regular 35# Delta, 45ft 5/16 chain, plus a storm anchor, refrigeration, 8 horse outboard, dingy, wind generator, and on and on. PHRF doesn't give any credit for all this stuff and it slows one down measurably. Not to mention regular old Petit Trinidad bottom paint (rolled not sprayed on). I'm not prepared to lug everything off for a race so we just race for the fun of it in the club beer can series leaving the top places for the die-hards. H-35 PHRF 123 (oh, and that's another reason)
True On Left Coast, Alan
Seems odd that Catalinas are out in big numbers on the cruising class races, but very few Hunters. Not many Bene's either. Part of the problem may be that Hunters seem to start with a pretty low PHRF and there are so few racing that the handicap does not get adjusted. I've done pretty well boat for boat and not so good on handicap. One thing that these boats need in SoCal is better light-air sails. But, there isn't any good reason we don't have more representation in the fleets. Rick D.
Seems odd that Catalinas are out in big numbers on the cruising class races, but very few Hunters. Not many Bene's either. Part of the problem may be that Hunters seem to start with a pretty low PHRF and there are so few racing that the handicap does not get adjusted. I've done pretty well boat for boat and not so good on handicap. One thing that these boats need in SoCal is better light-air sails. But, there isn't any good reason we don't have more representation in the fleets. Rick D.
Fight PHRF ratings...
I have been fighting the PHRF ratings for Hunters for two years now, with some success. It comes very slowly, 3-6 seconds at a time once a year. One problem I hear all the time is there isn't enough Hunters racing to provide data. My only answer to that is that with the low ratings there is no incentive to race. IF the numbers are run on nearly identical Catalinas and Hunters, Catalinas are always 6-9 seconds higher. I cannot believe that the Catalinas are such dogs and Hunters are such speedsters to rate such a difference. If anyone wants to protest a rating I would be happy to help. Steve
I have been fighting the PHRF ratings for Hunters for two years now, with some success. It comes very slowly, 3-6 seconds at a time once a year. One problem I hear all the time is there isn't enough Hunters racing to provide data. My only answer to that is that with the low ratings there is no incentive to race. IF the numbers are run on nearly identical Catalinas and Hunters, Catalinas are always 6-9 seconds higher. I cannot believe that the Catalinas are such dogs and Hunters are such speedsters to rate such a difference. If anyone wants to protest a rating I would be happy to help. Steve
Same Problem with PHRF
I have the same problem trying to race my 376 with a 111 handicap. I am always dead last by a few minutes. The LMPHRF gave me a three seconds a couple of years ago, but that didn't help at all. I need at least 20 seconds to be in the ballpark. Steve, if you can help on this, I would appreciate it. Please send me an e-mail. Thanks.
I have the same problem trying to race my 376 with a 111 handicap. I am always dead last by a few minutes. The LMPHRF gave me a three seconds a couple of years ago, but that didn't help at all. I need at least 20 seconds to be in the ballpark. Steve, if you can help on this, I would appreciate it. Please send me an e-mail. Thanks.
Sail's??
When you buy a new boat it comes with Nice looking Dacron Sail's but not racing Sail's. Hunter does a nice job of putting togather a nice package but the sail's tend to be fair and new but not good quality racing sail's. Your PHRF number is based on a boat in top racing condition meaning the best sail's and the boat being in the top racing condition. Go Fast Sail'a and a go fast bottom are a must. The sail's on the boat are a huge part in going fast I am sure your main and head sail are not as big as they could be. On our 28.5 the main that came with the boat and a new UK Tape Drive main we bought for racing are worlds apart in shape and size. On the Newer Hunter boats you are able to have a monster amount of roach in the sail because of not haivng any backstay. The head sail could be a little bigger and I am sure the shape can be way improved over the stock sail. I am sure you can be competive with your sail's but as you look around the race course take notice at what the boats winning are useing. Cliff
When you buy a new boat it comes with Nice looking Dacron Sail's but not racing Sail's. Hunter does a nice job of putting togather a nice package but the sail's tend to be fair and new but not good quality racing sail's. Your PHRF number is based on a boat in top racing condition meaning the best sail's and the boat being in the top racing condition. Go Fast Sail'a and a go fast bottom are a must. The sail's on the boat are a huge part in going fast I am sure your main and head sail are not as big as they could be. On our 28.5 the main that came with the boat and a new UK Tape Drive main we bought for racing are worlds apart in shape and size. On the Newer Hunter boats you are able to have a monster amount of roach in the sail because of not haivng any backstay. The head sail could be a little bigger and I am sure the shape can be way improved over the stock sail. I am sure you can be competive with your sail's but as you look around the race course take notice at what the boats winning are useing. Cliff
Sails!!
Good point, your sails are the engine that makes the beast go. Using the stock sails is fine for cruising but it wont get the job done on the race course. Think of racing your street car against a race car, no contest. Horse power is the name of the game and racing sails develope a lot more of that with less drag.
Good point, your sails are the engine that makes the beast go. Using the stock sails is fine for cruising but it wont get the job done on the race course. Think of racing your street car against a race car, no contest. Horse power is the name of the game and racing sails develope a lot more of that with less drag.
PHRF problem too!
My 89 Legend 37 is rated 117 which I also think is 15-20 seconds/mile too low. Local PHRF committee members are sympathetic but unwilling to make a big change. We have been winning, but against weak competition, and that does not help my case. Perhaps I should consider "throwing" some races!
My 89 Legend 37 is rated 117 which I also think is 15-20 seconds/mile too low. Local PHRF committee members are sympathetic but unwilling to make a big change. We have been winning, but against weak competition, and that does not help my case. Perhaps I should consider "throwing" some races!
PHRF Solution....
Although you have been winning, the qustion comes to mind...against what. You say the compition is weak, is that in you class or the fleet. If it is the class, then compare your numbers against the fleet and see how it stacks up. The more data you have against the largest group of boats is how you find a good rating. Try racing in a few more and different races, and take those numbers to the local PHRF. YOu might even try getting numbers from a few other 37's if you can. The numbers only change if you apply for the change and have the data to back up the request. And then only 3-6 seconds at a time... Steve
Although you have been winning, the qustion comes to mind...against what. You say the compition is weak, is that in you class or the fleet. If it is the class, then compare your numbers against the fleet and see how it stacks up. The more data you have against the largest group of boats is how you find a good rating. Try racing in a few more and different races, and take those numbers to the local PHRF. YOu might even try getting numbers from a few other 37's if you can. The numbers only change if you apply for the change and have the data to back up the request. And then only 3-6 seconds at a time... Steve
PHRF for 306
I just had my 306 rated in San Francisco Bay. The rating is 207. When I bought the new boat I ask the dealer and the answer was 185. The lesson is never listen to a salesperson. The catalina is rated 190. I guess I need a race to see who is correct!
I just had my 306 rated in San Francisco Bay. The rating is 207. When I bought the new boat I ask the dealer and the answer was 185. The lesson is never listen to a salesperson. The catalina is rated 190. I guess I need a race to see who is correct!
PHRF Optimization
A smooth wet sanded racing finish on a hard finish bottom paint is the single best use of time and money in maximizing your light air performance. This will also promote the attached flow of the water around the keel, resulting in less drag and better pointing ability. The replacement of a fixed prop with a Martec folding prop would further promote speed and pointing ability, and thirdly, a headfoil system would promote pointing ability with even the stock sails (hank on sails would need to be converted to luff tapes). PHRF typically allows a 155% Genoa as your largest headsail and is reasonably flexible in combination with the stock Main as well as the stock 110% #3 which comes with the boat. I've found our deep draft 28.5 effectively sails to it's PHRF 174 rating with this set-up.
A smooth wet sanded racing finish on a hard finish bottom paint is the single best use of time and money in maximizing your light air performance. This will also promote the attached flow of the water around the keel, resulting in less drag and better pointing ability. The replacement of a fixed prop with a Martec folding prop would further promote speed and pointing ability, and thirdly, a headfoil system would promote pointing ability with even the stock sails (hank on sails would need to be converted to luff tapes). PHRF typically allows a 155% Genoa as your largest headsail and is reasonably flexible in combination with the stock Main as well as the stock 110% #3 which comes with the boat. I've found our deep draft 28.5 effectively sails to it's PHRF 174 rating with this set-up.
It's true..
.. that trying to stuff "cruising boat specs" into a "race boat spec" is not possible. That is one very valid reason why a lot of guys(girls) don't race. It is also true that in order to race and do well you NEED to know how to sail well. I know of many "sailors" that really don't race because they simply don't know what they are doing. Sailing minimally takes very little knowledge, racing requires an increased level of skill that many do not have AND are not interested to do anything about. I have trained many crewmembers and each has said that a couple of races has taught them more than years of cruising ever had.
.. that trying to stuff "cruising boat specs" into a "race boat spec" is not possible. That is one very valid reason why a lot of guys(girls) don't race. It is also true that in order to race and do well you NEED to know how to sail well. I know of many "sailors" that really don't race because they simply don't know what they are doing. Sailing minimally takes very little knowledge, racing requires an increased level of skill that many do not have AND are not interested to do anything about. I have trained many crewmembers and each has said that a couple of races has taught them more than years of cruising ever had.
Racing our 28.5
I am now on my 3rd Hunter boat our 28.5 and we raced them all. Racing makes us a better sailor. We did a fun but serious race last season for United Way. We had people buy a spot on 5 boats and all the money went to United Way. 2 of us were racers and had our boats in racing condition the other's were not. The boats that were not were literally crushed on the course. The boats that were crushed got a fair chance to see how bad ther Sail's were and what difference a good set of sail's and a good bottom made. All the boats racing were crusing boats,Hunter Tartan,Catalina and an Oday. The comment made about stripping the boat for raceing is so far from the truth with the boats we race against around the Islands of Lake Erie. We really don't take anything off of the boat, all thet we race against use ther boats as campers and have all the stuff on it. Since we need to sail to where we are racing for the weekend we have all the food we need for the weekend and a cooler full of Red Dog Beer. I also agree with the comment made about what you learn raceing. I have had crew come on the boat that were just cruisers and after about 4 races they always come away a better sailor for crusing. If you are racing and need to get to the weather mark in 25 knots of wind the fastest you can is that not the same as trying to out run that thunder storm screaming down on you. Racing will not only make you a better sailor it makes you stronger where you are weak. When we race we can only become better sailor by tring to squeze all the speed we can, by doing this we learn the boat and what it can and can't do. Sail trim and makeing the boat go is what it is all about. Becaue we race and I pay allot of attention to trim when we cruise I am able to put more miles under the keel than a guy who is just a cruiser. We have many times sailed in a group with bigger boats and beaten them to where we are going because we race and no the boat and they do not. Cliff Hunter 28.5 " Red DOg"
I am now on my 3rd Hunter boat our 28.5 and we raced them all. Racing makes us a better sailor. We did a fun but serious race last season for United Way. We had people buy a spot on 5 boats and all the money went to United Way. 2 of us were racers and had our boats in racing condition the other's were not. The boats that were not were literally crushed on the course. The boats that were crushed got a fair chance to see how bad ther Sail's were and what difference a good set of sail's and a good bottom made. All the boats racing were crusing boats,Hunter Tartan,Catalina and an Oday. The comment made about stripping the boat for raceing is so far from the truth with the boats we race against around the Islands of Lake Erie. We really don't take anything off of the boat, all thet we race against use ther boats as campers and have all the stuff on it. Since we need to sail to where we are racing for the weekend we have all the food we need for the weekend and a cooler full of Red Dog Beer. I also agree with the comment made about what you learn raceing. I have had crew come on the boat that were just cruisers and after about 4 races they always come away a better sailor for crusing. If you are racing and need to get to the weather mark in 25 knots of wind the fastest you can is that not the same as trying to out run that thunder storm screaming down on you. Racing will not only make you a better sailor it makes you stronger where you are weak. When we race we can only become better sailor by tring to squeze all the speed we can, by doing this we learn the boat and what it can and can't do. Sail trim and makeing the boat go is what it is all about. Becaue we race and I pay allot of attention to trim when we cruise I am able to put more miles under the keel than a guy who is just a cruiser. We have many times sailed in a group with bigger boats and beaten them to where we are going because we race and no the boat and they do not. Cliff Hunter 28.5 " Red DOg"
I Agree ..
.. that if your only competion are cruiser out to simply sail the course you will win even with your gear onboard. However, if you go up against top shelf competition you will get eaten alive by them if you don't take every advatage to optimize. In our area there are a large amount of top shelf boats with great crews,J105, J120, Sovrel33, Farr30,36, Tripp26,33,41, C&C99,110,40. When we raced in the cruising class fleet we won with little effort, but as we stepped up our game to the higher levels placing and winning got a lot harder. But the big gain to us was the chance to learn and sail faster and smarter. At the level we are at now, I never look at sail trim anymore, my crew does that. I have to concentrate on"driving the bus". Taking your eyes of the road costs time which can cost places at the finish line. Our whole crew has become a well oiled machine and everyone knows his job. We have become much better sailors since we've raised the bar.
.. that if your only competion are cruiser out to simply sail the course you will win even with your gear onboard. However, if you go up against top shelf competition you will get eaten alive by them if you don't take every advatage to optimize. In our area there are a large amount of top shelf boats with great crews,J105, J120, Sovrel33, Farr30,36, Tripp26,33,41, C&C99,110,40. When we raced in the cruising class fleet we won with little effort, but as we stepped up our game to the higher levels placing and winning got a lot harder. But the big gain to us was the chance to learn and sail faster and smarter. At the level we are at now, I never look at sail trim anymore, my crew does that. I have to concentrate on"driving the bus". Taking your eyes of the road costs time which can cost places at the finish line. Our whole crew has become a well oiled machine and everyone knows his job. We have become much better sailors since we've raised the bar.
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