Just got this from a friend. Anyone in NC have more information?
http://cruisersnet.net/new-law-pumpout-log-to-be-required-in-nc/
http://cruisersnet.net/new-law-pumpout-log-to-be-required-in-nc/
New pump-out law in North Carolina
- Thread starter Jim Seamans
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Hrm.....Sounds like just another wonderful infringement on our freedoms. What a pain in the butt. I hope VA and MD don't follow suit.
It seems to me that somewhere in the EPA, the states or in the Fed Gov't there is SOMEONE who knows what a recreational boat is, what cooling water is, what the types of MSDs are, and some small amount of common sense all in the same time zone. When did the EPA gain authority over this in the first place, and on what basis?
The sheer stupidity as evidenced by the recent state of MD debacle and the EPA on the upcoming "runoff and outflow" alone is enough to make a grown man cry.
What is the goal, or plan? Or is this just ...what, I don't know?
Why are the manufacturers and boating organizations so quiet? I have resigned my CBF ties, as they were on board with the State of MD banning ANY discharge, and would like to see all boating runoff/discharge "eliminated"...not sure how that could be done in the real world.
Where are the working pumpouts? At my marina, the pumpout shuts down for the winter when the water turns off..what about those of us who boat year round. And then factor that the majority (all) of these pumpouts simply move the poo to an unreliable, often poor performing shoreside system.
Somewhere along the line, some realistic view of how this works and plays needs to be presented to those making the laws, after all the hours TRYING this spring with the state of MD, it is clear that they can make a law about their waters, forcing us Virginians to do what they want to do, all the while ignoring the rights of the COV...
The sheer stupidity as evidenced by the recent state of MD debacle and the EPA on the upcoming "runoff and outflow" alone is enough to make a grown man cry.
What is the goal, or plan? Or is this just ...what, I don't know?
Why are the manufacturers and boating organizations so quiet? I have resigned my CBF ties, as they were on board with the State of MD banning ANY discharge, and would like to see all boating runoff/discharge "eliminated"...not sure how that could be done in the real world.
Where are the working pumpouts? At my marina, the pumpout shuts down for the winter when the water turns off..what about those of us who boat year round. And then factor that the majority (all) of these pumpouts simply move the poo to an unreliable, often poor performing shoreside system.
Somewhere along the line, some realistic view of how this works and plays needs to be presented to those making the laws, after all the hours TRYING this spring with the state of MD, it is clear that they can make a law about their waters, forcing us Virginians to do what they want to do, all the while ignoring the rights of the COV...
What MD laws are you referring to? I hadn't heard of any changes in the works and now am concerned!
Pumpout logs nothing new
They're actually including in most state marine sanitation laws, though rarely enforced. The pumpout is also supposed to keep a log...if your log is checked and has an entry that claims you pumped out at a particular pumpout on a particular date/time, the pumpout should have a matching entry. But it's actually unenforceable because pumpout operators rarely bother with their logs on busy weekends. So pumpout logs are just one of those things that lawmakers think are a good idea, and that cause a flap when first announced...but that's about all.
I read the NC bill...it doesn't name any waters, and parts of it seem to supercede federal law...and I can't tell whether it's actually been enacted or is, like the MD bill, still just a proposed bill. I'll try to find out more when I get home.
And btw...plastic non-release tie wraps are acceptable "wire ties."
They're actually including in most state marine sanitation laws, though rarely enforced. The pumpout is also supposed to keep a log...if your log is checked and has an entry that claims you pumped out at a particular pumpout on a particular date/time, the pumpout should have a matching entry. But it's actually unenforceable because pumpout operators rarely bother with their logs on busy weekends. So pumpout logs are just one of those things that lawmakers think are a good idea, and that cause a flap when first announced...but that's about all.
I read the NC bill...it doesn't name any waters, and parts of it seem to supercede federal law...and I can't tell whether it's actually been enacted or is, like the MD bill, still just a proposed bill. I'll try to find out more when I get home.
And btw...plastic non-release tie wraps are acceptable "wire ties."
Seems like all your poop log entries should read "Three miles off the xxxx Inlet on x/xx/xx". But it is a chance for some entrepreneur to make some real cash. An old friend drives the barge in Annapolis. He calls it the "stool bus".
I thought we have always been required to lock the discharge seacock. I always have. I think the log book thing is ridiculous. How are they going to know how often you pump out during a years time or how many times you have pumped out at sea outside the 3 mile limit. I mean it no big deal to me to keep the log I don't mind jotting it down but I just think it's a waste (could be a pun) of time. As far as locking the seacock I think it's easier to close the valve and remove the handle. put it back on when you are out to sea.
And don't even start me on trying to find a working pumpout. Reliable marine mobile pumpouts would be great, some areas have that service. We could certainly use something like that around here.
This law follows naturally from some boat owners installing a 1-3 gallon "holding tank" so as to legally have a holding tank. Then they pump overboard. Being a big fan of raw oysters I don't like the thought of people pumping out near oyster beds. No discharge areas is a PITA but better than hepatitus.
From noonsite.com
USA: North Carolina Coast - Update to No Discharge Regulation
Created by sue. Last modified on 2010-05-08 10:37:23
Contributors:
Topic: Environment
Countries: USA
Originally posted 18 April 2010
Update (in bold) posted 8 May 2010
Just a reminder to cruisers that will be transiting the North Carolina Coastal area around Carolina Beach, Snows Cut and even sections of the Cape Fear River, There is currently a no discharge regulation in effect. Please read the following notice:
The Division of Water Quality received approval from the U.S. Environmental Protection Agency for its petition to designate coastal waters along the entire length of New Hanover County as a No Discharge Zone - an area where the discharge of boat vessel sewage, both treated and untreated, is prohibited. The approval appeared in the federal register on Feb. 22 and the NDZ designation is now activated.
Waters affected by the prohibition include waters extending three nautical miles into the Atlantic Ocean along the entire length of New Hanover County.
Included are Futch Creek, Pages Creek, Bradley Creek, Hewlett's Creek, Howe Creek, Whiskey Creek, Snow's Cut and all unnamed tributaries and tidal creeks to those waters.
To know if this applies to you, you will need to know what waters have been petitioned as no discharge zones. That certainly will make it clear. Many have questioned whether this applies only to North Carolina boats or boats in transit. As the legislation is written, it applies to ANY vessel, which we will have to assume means transient, registered in other states, or documented vessels.
Under federal regulations, states can prohibit the discharge of any sewage, whether treated or not, if they determine that greater protections for water quality are needed.
As part of the process, petitioners must demonstrate in a petition to EPA that an adequate number of reasonably available pumpout facilities exist. Nine marinas are located within the New Hanover NDZ and two are located within seven nautical miles of the zone.
Toilets on boats, also called marine sanitary devices or MSDs, generally come in three types. MSD Type I and Type II are designed to discharge into the waterway at each use. This is prohibited in a No Discharge Zone. Type III MSDs, which store waste for later disposal, must be emptied at a marina pumpout.
The total vessel population for New Hanover County as of August 2008 was 13,940, according to registrations with the N.C. Wildlife Resources Commission. This number reflected an increase from 2006 registrations of nearly 15 percent. Boats with MSD equipment, both locally registered and transient, were estimated in 2008 at 2,194 or approximately 244 boats per each of the nine pumpout facilities within the NDZ.
For more information about federal No Discharge Zone regulations, go to the EPA Web site at: http://www.epa.gov/.
Additional navigational information and comments from other cruisers can be found on our website at www.waterwayguide.com.
Chuck Baier
General Manager
www.waterwayguide.com
USA: North Carolina Coast - Update to No Discharge Regulation
Created by sue. Last modified on 2010-05-08 10:37:23
Contributors:
Topic: Environment
Countries: USA
Originally posted 18 April 2010
Update (in bold) posted 8 May 2010
Just a reminder to cruisers that will be transiting the North Carolina Coastal area around Carolina Beach, Snows Cut and even sections of the Cape Fear River, There is currently a no discharge regulation in effect. Please read the following notice:
The Division of Water Quality received approval from the U.S. Environmental Protection Agency for its petition to designate coastal waters along the entire length of New Hanover County as a No Discharge Zone - an area where the discharge of boat vessel sewage, both treated and untreated, is prohibited. The approval appeared in the federal register on Feb. 22 and the NDZ designation is now activated.
Waters affected by the prohibition include waters extending three nautical miles into the Atlantic Ocean along the entire length of New Hanover County.
Included are Futch Creek, Pages Creek, Bradley Creek, Hewlett's Creek, Howe Creek, Whiskey Creek, Snow's Cut and all unnamed tributaries and tidal creeks to those waters.
To know if this applies to you, you will need to know what waters have been petitioned as no discharge zones. That certainly will make it clear. Many have questioned whether this applies only to North Carolina boats or boats in transit. As the legislation is written, it applies to ANY vessel, which we will have to assume means transient, registered in other states, or documented vessels.
Under federal regulations, states can prohibit the discharge of any sewage, whether treated or not, if they determine that greater protections for water quality are needed.
As part of the process, petitioners must demonstrate in a petition to EPA that an adequate number of reasonably available pumpout facilities exist. Nine marinas are located within the New Hanover NDZ and two are located within seven nautical miles of the zone.
Toilets on boats, also called marine sanitary devices or MSDs, generally come in three types. MSD Type I and Type II are designed to discharge into the waterway at each use. This is prohibited in a No Discharge Zone. Type III MSDs, which store waste for later disposal, must be emptied at a marina pumpout.
The total vessel population for New Hanover County as of August 2008 was 13,940, according to registrations with the N.C. Wildlife Resources Commission. This number reflected an increase from 2006 registrations of nearly 15 percent. Boats with MSD equipment, both locally registered and transient, were estimated in 2008 at 2,194 or approximately 244 boats per each of the nine pumpout facilities within the NDZ.
For more information about federal No Discharge Zone regulations, go to the EPA Web site at: http://www.epa.gov/.
Additional navigational information and comments from other cruisers can be found on our website at www.waterwayguide.com.
Chuck Baier
General Manager
www.waterwayguide.com
Peggy...
as the Administrator for my yacht club in Maryland, the requirement to keep a pump-out log is news to me. Our pump-out is available to all members at any time during the boating season, and shut down during the winter. It is self-operated and not attended by anyone. I will need to call this to the attention of our dockmaster to see what he can determine our compliance requirements are.
as the Administrator for my yacht club in Maryland, the requirement to keep a pump-out log is news to me. Our pump-out is available to all members at any time during the boating season, and shut down during the winter. It is self-operated and not attended by anyone. I will need to call this to the attention of our dockmaster to see what he can determine our compliance requirements are.
I didn't say that it is a requirement in MD
Only that it's not all that uncommon in state laws, especially on inland "no discharge" lakes. So until/unless you determine that MD does require that pumpouts be logged--and that it's actually being enforced--I wouldn't worry about it.
Only that it's not all that uncommon in state laws, especially on inland "no discharge" lakes. So until/unless you determine that MD does require that pumpouts be logged--and that it's actually being enforced--I wouldn't worry about it.
Are these laws aimed at liveaboards?
Back in approx 2001 through 2003 we were in and out of a major marine anchorage in the central Keys in Florida. They had a new Fed Gov funded pumpout boat that would come to your boat and pump out any amount of poo for $5. I noticed many boats that were occupied continiously over periods on weeks and never pumped out. We all know where and how their problem was solved. If these laws helped those type of anchorage then maybe its a good thing.
With most boats having one or more log books this really isn't that strenous of a item to deal with.
Ray
Back in approx 2001 through 2003 we were in and out of a major marine anchorage in the central Keys in Florida. They had a new Fed Gov funded pumpout boat that would come to your boat and pump out any amount of poo for $5. I noticed many boats that were occupied continiously over periods on weeks and never pumped out. We all know where and how their problem was solved. If these laws helped those type of anchorage then maybe its a good thing.
With most boats having one or more log books this really isn't that strenous of a item to deal with.
Ray
Peggy...
Thanks for your reply. Our "Green Marina" initiative chairman has not heard of such a requirement so I suspect that keeping a pump-out log in the state of Maryland is not a requirement as you state.
Thanks for your reply. Our "Green Marina" initiative chairman has not heard of such a requirement so I suspect that keeping a pump-out log in the state of Maryland is not a requirement as you state.
EPA doesn't seem to agree
It is interesting to note that not only do boaters have to "guess" at what bodies of water have been petitioned to the EPA, they even have to "guess" at what bodies of water are approved NDZ's! The EPA web site, which I would hope is the best source of data, does not list any NDZ's in NC except for some lakes:
http://www.epa.gov/owow/oceans/regulatory/vessel_sewage/vsdnozone.html
The most recent additions are parts of Maine in 2009, and parts of Mass in 2008. Nothing in 2010!
But that won't stop NC from writing fines, I'm sure!
Harry
It is interesting to note that not only do boaters have to "guess" at what bodies of water have been petitioned to the EPA, they even have to "guess" at what bodies of water are approved NDZ's! The EPA web site, which I would hope is the best source of data, does not list any NDZ's in NC except for some lakes:
http://www.epa.gov/owow/oceans/regulatory/vessel_sewage/vsdnozone.html
The most recent additions are parts of Maine in 2009, and parts of Mass in 2008. Nothing in 2010!
But that won't stop NC from writing fines, I'm sure!
Harry
Since the noonsite post was from my emails I can tell you that the No Discharge Zone is currently law and the Log requirement is to go into affect July 1. There is now a move in the NC legislature to change the enactment date to January 1 and change the wording to remove the "required in areas that have been PROPOSED as no discharge zones." The only way you would know what those areas are is to wade through the Federal Register and look for the areas in NC that have requested to be no discharge zones, whether they have been granted or not. Chuck
The interesting thing about this new regulation is that according to the letter of the law, a civil fine can not be levied for violation, although there is a vague mention further in the bill to $10,000.00 fines. But this SEEMS to be directed at the pump out stations. As soon as I can find it I will post a link to the bill. We did send out this email advisory to all of our subscribers last week. Chuck
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