New plywood dinghy flooring sealants

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Nichole340

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Jan 12, 2019
111
Hunter 340 Narragansett
I'm in the process of remaking my rotted out plywood dinghy flooring. I have read other postings about this topic suggesting using Starboard, but found that pricing to be to much. It's also to slippery and flexes a lot.
So I went with 1/2 inch marine grade plywood. My current floor is 3/8 inch thick but the added 1/8 inch won't be a be weight factor.
I also have reduced the 4 panels I have now to 3. I've rounded and tapered my edges to fit under the tubes of my Achilles and it all looks and fits great.
I want to seal the panels with a penetrating epoxy. Has anyone used a one or two part penetrating epoxy and have any suggestions? I would like a really thin consistency type, almost watery, to really penetrate into the bare plywood, for a deep seal.
Thank you for the help.
 
Rich Stidger

Rich Stidger

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Feb 10, 2004
4,146
Hunter 40.5 Warwick, RI
I am doing a similar floor restoration as you for my Achilles. I have always used West Systems epoxy for all epoxy applications, but I happened to see this product from Jamestown Distributors. I have not used this particular product, but I have used other Total Boat products and found them to be of quality. The advertising info sound like it will do exactly what you want. YMMV.

 
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dlochner

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Jan 11, 2014
13,016
Sabre 362 113 Fair Haven, NY
Penetrating epoxies are often just regular epoxies thinned with some solvent that may or may not flash off. I believe this is why West System is not keen on them.

There are a couple of methods to achieve the same effect, epoxy penetrating deep into the wood with out the use of solvents. One issue with plywood is the large expanses of dense wood that are not real porous. Getting epoxy to penetrate is a challenge.

Thinning epoxy with a solvent may not work well because not all of the solvent may flash off, leaving some embedded in the epoxy. A better way is to warm the epoxy so that it becomes less viscous, I think warming it to about 70°-80° F will make it very thin. Experiment to see how much the temperature thins the epoxy and use a slow hardener to counteract the shorter cure time of the warmed epoxy. To estimate the effect of heating on viscosity it is not necessary to add the hardener to the epoxy, get the viscosity the way you want it then add the also warmed hardener. A water bath is a good way to warm the epoxy.

The other hack is to warm the wood. This will reduce the amount of air and water vapor in the wood and as the wood cools it will create a vacuum drawing the epoxy into the wood pores. Again a slow hardener is best and remove the heat source when you apply the epoxy.

You can find these techniques described on the West System website. Look for a reference to repairing wood masts and scarfing joints, I think that is where I read about these techniques.
 
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Nichole340

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Jan 12, 2019
111
Hunter 340 Narragansett
Interesting reading from everyone. I like the West System 105 - 1 part product, basically because I am concerned about getting the same product performance twice. If I don't get the mix ratios exact will this cause a problem with the 2 part system?
 
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dlochner

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Jan 11, 2014
13,016
Sabre 362 113 Fair Haven, NY
Nichole340 said:
Interesting reading from everyone. I like the West System 105 - 1 part product, basically because I am concerned about getting the same product performance twice. If I don't get the mix ratios exact will this cause a problem with the 2 part system?
Click to expand
To the best of my knowledge there are no 1-part epoxies. West System 105 is a two part epoxy there are several different hardeners available that control curing times and clarity. The easiest way to get the proportions correct, and they must be correct, is to use the pumps West sells.

Here's a good video to watch to start the learning process on epoxies.

 
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Nichole340

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Jan 12, 2019
111
Hunter 340 Narragansett
Yes, your right. I read it wrong. Thanks for clearing that up for me. Wishful thinking I guess.
 
Ralph Johnstone

Ralph Johnstone

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Jan 4, 2006
7,281
Hunter 310 West Vancouver, B.C.
If you're looking for the best epoxy coating which shows the wood grain and wears like cast iron, consider coating with a clear epoxy such as System Three Silver Tip (they're all the same) and light weight glass cloth. The glass cloth disappears in the epoxy as they have the same refractive index.

Restoring companionway steps

How to finish the stair treads? I'm thinking I should just sand the wood and leave it bare for best traction underfoot. Am I correct, or do they need to be oiled or varnished for longevity? Thanks.
forums.sailboatowners.com

They still look like wet varnish after 14 years. This involves a little extra work but the finish will last for many years.

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Remember the epoxy finish must be hermetically sealed as any means of water ingress through screws etc. will lift the epoxy coating as it does not pass water vapour. Read the attached book for everything about epoxy including thinning and UV protection.
 

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dLj

dLj

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Mar 23, 2017
4,427
Belliure 41 Back in the Chesapeake
Nichole340 said:
Interesting reading from everyone. I like the West System 105 - 1 part product, basically because I am concerned about getting the same product performance twice. If I don't get the mix ratios exact will this cause a problem with the 2 part system?
Click to expand
Simply buy the pumps from west system - they make the mix perfect pretty much every time... The only time I've ever had a question was first pump or if I was running out, so really, no problems to speak of. It's a really well thought out system.

dj
 
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D

dlochner

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Jan 11, 2014
13,016
Sabre 362 113 Fair Haven, NY
dLj said:
Simply buy the pumps from west system - they make the mix perfect pretty much every time... The only time I've ever had a question was first pump or if I was running out, so really, no problems to speak of. It's a really well thought out system.

dj
Click to expand
It is sometimes painful, however, always prime the pumps before using them for the final mix. Pump at least once to ensure there is a full flow without air bubbles. Don't use the epoxy or hardener from the first incomplete pump. Far better to waste a little epoxy than to have the epoxy not cure properly because the ratio was off.
 
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jssailem

jssailem

SBO Weather and Forecasting Forum Jim & John
Oct 22, 2014
23,265
CAL 35 Cruiser #21 moored EVERETT WA
West Systems with the pumps is a simple system to get a good mix.

You can also get a good mix by pouring your epoxy/hardeners into graded cups. Some use a scale to weigh the parts. Note it is by volume not weight that the ratios are calculated, so practice pouring the right volume of hardener/resin into a plastic cup then weighing it on a digital scale. You will soon get exact same mixes within a gram or two.

DJ's hacks about a warm water bath and heating the wood is spot on. Work in small batches that allow you to completely coat the area before it kicks. I would hang your wood so that you can coat all sides. You might consider putting Fiberglass cloth over the edges and coating them to reinforce the edges and minimize them from flaking off.

Work with the epoxy spread out and add layers not thick coats. Practice with the product to get your rhythm and an understanding of the way the material changes from the mix to the kick stage. Once it gets close to kicking you are on break till it cures. Then it is sanding and next layer.

Epoxy degrades when exposed to UV. You need to add a UV cover. I use varnish with UV inhibitors.

Once you get the boards into the sun and water the process of breakdown begins. The boards heat up, the moisture tries to interact with the epoxy. Any crack or ding is attacked. Be aware of the conditions and do not put off repairs. Deferred maintenance means more work when you get around to it.
 
jssailem

jssailem

SBO Weather and Forecasting Forum Jim & John
Oct 22, 2014
23,265
CAL 35 Cruiser #21 moored EVERETT WA
jssailem said:
, so practice pouring the right volume of hardener/resin into a plastic cup
Click to expand
If you watch BoatworksToday, when working on big jobs, Andy will pour out measured amounts of resin and hardener in separate cups. Setting them aside for the series of batches to be mixed.

Using clean cups, you can always return the unused material to the resin or hardener container. Just be sure it is not contaminated or mixed up.
 
dLj

dLj

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Mar 23, 2017
4,427
Belliure 41 Back in the Chesapeake
dlochner said:
It is sometimes painful, however, always prime the pumps before using them for the final mix. Pump at least once to ensure there is a full flow without air bubbles. Don't use the epoxy or hardener from the first incomplete pump. Far better to waste a little epoxy than to have the epoxy not cure properly because the ratio was off.
Click to expand
Very wise words - the miserly side of me always wanted to save every penny - but listen to @dlochner on this one - he's spot on.

dj
 
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Nichole340

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Jan 12, 2019
111
Hunter 340 Narragansett
I been watching the short videos of the products suggested. They seem very straightforward and I like the consistencies I‘ve seen. Being a bare wood marine plywood right now, it should penetrate deep into the wood for a better seal.
My floor is all cut out at this moment. Now on to the final sanding and rounding of all the edges.
I will definitely get the measured pumps. Not a big fan of measuring and the guess work it can involve.
I’m looking approximately 50 + square feet in all (top and bottom) and allowing for the edges. I‘ll be sure to get the right amount needed also. How frustrating would that be!
Thank you all.
 
jssailem

jssailem

SBO Weather and Forecasting Forum Jim & John
Oct 22, 2014
23,265
CAL 35 Cruiser #21 moored EVERETT WA
Good luck... You may not get it right the first time. That is ok. The material is forgiving. It allows you to try it a second and a third time.

Wear long sleeves and protection i.e. gloves, and masks. Fiberglass/epoxy work can be itchy. It is not good. Whne sanding capture the dust. It gets everywhere. Just look at the fiberglass shops of any boat yard.
 
Hollyberry

Hollyberry

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Sep 24, 2021
386
Beneteau 35s5 Telegraph hrbr Thetis Island
If you're planning on painting these floorboards I'd recommend System Three's Silvertip epoxy. It's amine free - no amine blush to be concerned about like many other epoxies (problematic when painting afterwards) I've built two plywood dodger hardtops using birch plywood, Silvertip, and painted them, both still looking good after many seasons.

Also, I believe most epoxies require some sort of UV protection or they go cloudy over time.
 
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sailcapt340

sailcapt340

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Sep 26, 2008
713
Hunter 340 0 Wickford, RI
Must be dinghy flooring season. Personally, I can be accused of trying to save a dinghy floor for 3 years now. I gave up. It was a big lesson in futility for me. But I tried.
I also went with 1/2 inch marine plywood as Nichole340. Your right, the small amount of added weight will not matter. And no real noticeable flexing. It just takes a bit more to round over the edges to fit under tubes so they don’t rub.

Like Rich, I like the Jamestown Distributors TotalBoat Products I have used. I plan on using their 2 part Penetrating Epoxy to seal my floor.
I‘m not happy with their decision to close the store in Bristol, RI to the public and go all mail order. But that‘s another topic.
I do have a copy of an email they sent me regarding square foot coverage for their Penetrating Epoxy which may help you out.
Good luck with your project……………

Thanks for reaching out. The coverage, or yield, of TotalBoat Penetrating Epoxy will vary greatly based upon the porosity of the substrate it is being applied to, and the desired application thickness. Both regular and cold weather penetrating epoxy products share the same coverage rates, as they are both 100% epoxy.
The chart below gives rough guidelines as to what the minimum and maximum reasonable coverage rates are for each unit of measure (when both components are mixed together). Actual results may yield lower or higher values than are posted below. The addition of solvent to thin Penetrating Epoxy will not extend the coverage or change the values posted below.
UNIT OF MEASUREMINIMUM REASONABLE COVERAGE RATE*MAXIMUM REASONABLE COVERAGE RATE*
Pint Kit (pint resin, 1/2 pt. hardener)20 square feet40 square feet
Quart Kit (quart resin, pint hardener)40 square feet80 square feet
Half-Gallon Kit (half-gallon resin, quart hardener)80 square feet160 square feet
Gallon Kit (gallon resin, half-gallon hardener)160 square feet320 square feet
*Does not account for any wasted material. Commonly, 10-20% of the material can be considered lost material due to being trapped in paint brushes or rollers, accidental drips, or unrecoverable material left in the bottles and mixing cups. The percentage of waste will vary for each application.
 
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Nichole340

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Jan 12, 2019
111
Hunter 340 Narragansett
Ralph,
I‘ve been reading for a week now. Thank goodness I’m not ready to start any type of coating to the dinghy floor. Thank you for the link to System Three. Very informative.
All things put into perspective, now decorating for Christmas isn’t so hard anymore.
 
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