New instrument advice

[Scott21120]

I would like to replace my Standard Horizon Depth and Speed instruments, with a depth/speed multi instrument and a wind instrument. After a lot of searching, I think I am going to go with Navman (now Northstar) 3100 series. I can get the two instruments for a little over $700 - almost half what Raymarine or B & G would be. I visited the other vendors at Strictly Sail in Chicago this week, and couldn't get a good answer as to why I should spend twice the money for their product. I only have experience with Navman from our previous boat, and it worked flawlessly until the glass developed a slight crack. I sent it back to Brunswick (Navman service) and even though it was well out of warranty they repaired it free of charge. Does anyone else have any advice or recommendations? I like the looks of the Navman, as well as the price. We are coastal cruisers, no racing, and price is a big factor for us, but I also don't want to do this again anytime soon.As an aside, when the Raymarine rep showed me their ST60 series, priced at almost $1,500 for the two instruments (or the three instrument show special), I asked if they had a more economical solution. He pointed to the ST40 series and said they were less expensive but told me that I wouldn't want them because they were unreliable and innacurate. Not exactly a glowing endorsement!Thanks,Scott FullerO34 Dawn TreaderMilwaukee, WI

 

[NautiDuck]

Nice name!

I can't help with your instruments question but I really like your boat name. Conjures up images of a sailboat quietly emerging from the dawn. Nice.

 

[Steve L22188]

I'd vote for Navman

Scott, when I bought my new-to-me 88 O'Day 302 a couple of years ago it had no speed or depth instrument. I did some pretty good research and my criteria were readability (my 54 year old eyes aren't as good as they used to be!) and price. I settled on Navman and have been very happy. The readout is large enough for my eyes to see (although it is tough to see from the side -- you need to be more head on). But it has worked well.

 

[Doug_Meyer]

Try shopping around

I have Raymarine ST60s on my boat, and yes, they're expensive, but they all communicate. I have had no problems with any of the instruments. The secret is in the quality of the installation I suspect. My next choice would be B&G.Try looking at Defender.com, they generally have some slightly more reasonable pricing than suggested retail.I think by the time I get my next boat I would be looking at some of the wireless technology as a possibility as well.

 

[2 Hulls Dave]

Networked?

Regardless of what mfg you select, make sure the networking is compatible with any existing or future networked instruments/components. Very likely you're OK for now, but if you want to plan long range you might want to understand what's happening with the new network standard and what mfg have/are adopting it.NMEA 0183 is the "old" standard and NMEA 2000 is the up and coming. I'm no expert on either one. NMEA 2000 sounds like a really cool way to go if all the components can speak this. Backwards compatibility to NMEA 0183 can be assumed, I think, but if you think you may eventually replace every component in your network you might want to make sure every new one is NMEA 2000 compliant. That way all of them may eventually be able to take advantage of the improvements that come with NMEA 2000.DaveS/V Pas de DeuxCatana 471-44

 

[Moody Buccaneer]

Raymarine

It depends on how integrated your system will be.I've heard some poor stories about Navman (they also built the "Standard Horizon" and "West Marine" brands). One wind instrument that refuses to work correctly on one boat, Speed and depth instruments that have been in for repairs for more time in the last 2 years than they were on the boat.I bought a Navman 3100 series Wind Instrument based on the printed specifications that it output two specific NMEA sentences that my system needs for sailing performance numbers. The instrument did not output the two sentences as stated in the Navman documentation. When I contacted Navman, they did not offer any help, I could not return the instrument since it had been installed on the boat and the mast harness cut as part of the install. I sold it for $250 after only 6 months use.If you plan to have an integrated chartplotter, autopilot, DSC Radio, and instruments you need to be very careful to insure that it will all work. Saving a few hundred on the instruments will not compensate for the headaches down the line.

 

[Scott21120]

I should have been a little more specific -

I am not looking to interface equipment - just have reliable speed, depth and wind. I will probably connect my Garmin GPS through the Wind instrument for SOG, but that was pretty straightforward last time I had a Navman Wind. Moody Buccaneer, are you sure about Navman making Standard Horizon? I have Standard Horizon now, and they look NOTHING like Navman. I do know Navman is now being branded Northstar, but I believe Brunswick owns Navman, and I have never heard of them being associated with Standard Horizon. I don't believe I have ever seen the WM branded instruments, so not sure about those.Thanks for the input so far.

 

[muised]

ST40

I installed the ST40 bi-data (depth and speed) as well as the ST40 wind last season. They were inexpensive and I have found them to be very good. I think a lot of people probably pass over these because they don't want the stigma of a lower end instrument, but I like em. Half the price of the ST60, and if you ever find an ST60 display the sending units are compatible.

 

[Nereussailor]

Instruments

I also talked with the reps at the Raymarine booth. They didn't impress me. It's amazing what they'll tell you to make a bigger sale, but telling you that their product is unreliable, Thats pushing it a little. I would have looked them in the eye and said "Then why do you sell them for $360 each, shouldn't they be more like $100 if they're unreliable"? A friend of mine has the ST40's on his Islander and has had them for a couple of years. No problems yet, and they seem acurate to me.

 

[ulpilotrmh]

Hey Scott

Your GPS will give you SOG right out of the box without running it thru a wind instrument. Did you mean something else?

 

[Rob Hessenius]

Instruments

What I think Moody means about West Marine brand is. Comnav Star Instruments. This line has been exclusive to WM. I have just the speed/depth/log. This will be my 3rd season with it. I have had no problems at all. Very easy to install and run. I'm planning on getting the wind instrument this year. The price is pretty good to. Standard Horizon/Vertex Stantard no longer produces instruments and when they did they were made in house. Navman was purchased by Brunswick a few years back. Rob Hessenius

 

[Moody Buccaneer]

Pretty sure ...

I'm not 100% positive, but the Standard Horizion instruments I had were made in New Zealand and the manual was word for word the same as the Navman I replaced it with and they use the same transducers. Neither the SH or the West Marine brands had the "NavBus" connections that the new 3100 series have.For a stand alone system that does not need to talk to a chartplotter etc. The Navman stuff is probably OK, but the ST60+ instrument package is not very much more money (at least they aren't much more in Canada). I think I could have had a full Raymarine system for about the same as I paid for a Bi-Data and Wind from Navman. I out foxed myself: The SH Bi-Data display died (missing segments) so since the Navman uses the same transducers, and had the NavBus, I bought just the display head for the Bi-Data and added the 3100 Wind instrument. I'd have been ahead of the game if the 3100 wind had the NMEA outputs that it was said to have, but it doesn't. If I had just bitten the bullet and put a whole Raymarine package in the boat when the SH died, I would have saved several hundred dollars.BTW- Why would you use GPS SOG for the Wind 3100 rather than the boat speed from the Bi-Data? Using SOG will make the "True" wind numbers wrong.The ST40 wind uses a "Rotovecta"? wind tranducer, that is not as accurate as the vane and cup transducer.

 

[Scott21120]

Didn't mean SOG -

sorry, I was thinking of something else. I would use the GPS so that true wind from the 3100 is accurate. Moody - the best prices I can find on the ST60 stuff is well almost double what the Navman stuff is. I can get the Multi and Wind in the 3100 series for less than just the wind from Raymarine. $675 for the Navman instruments, and $750 or more is the best price I can find on the ST60 Wind alone. Navman also offers a package of Wind, Speed, Depth, and a repeater for a little over $800. I've thought about getting that, selling the speed, and depth and buying a multi - hopefully netting the repeater for free!Always thinking like a sailor! (thrifty)