New head recommendation

[serenisea]

Hi Peggy,

The last time I asked you for a head recommendation, you gave me the Raritan Crickett. It worked wonderfully!

Now we moved up to a Hunter 376, and I am asking the same question. I do not believe they still build the Crickett. The new boat has an old Jabsco, which I do not like, and is leaking back into the bowl. Rather than rebuilding a head I do not like, I am contemplating a new one.

A friend of mine has the Raritan "electric grind" model. He likes it, but I was thinking about staying with a manual one. What do you say?

Thanks.

Gary
Serenisea2

 

[sailingdog]

Lavac heads are a very good choice...

 

[Peggie Hall HeadMistress]

Up to you whether to go with manual or electric

If you want to "upgrade" to electric, the Raritan SeaEra would be your best choice. If you want to stay with a manual toilet, I'd go with the Raritan PH II...or PHC, which is the "compact" version--same pump, but on a compact base and with a shorter pump handle to fit in a tighter space

 

[Peggie Hall HeadMistress]

Lavac is an excellent choice for live-aboard adults, but not the best choice for "weekend warriors" who have small children and frequent landlubber guests.

 

[sailingdog]

Very true... but they do tend to be a bit more reliable than even the high-end Raritans.

Lavac is an excellent choice for live-aboard adults, but not the best choice for "weekend warriors" who have small children and frequent landlubber guests.

 

[PKFK]

Lavac is an excellent choice for live-aboard adults, but not the best choice for "weekend warriors" who have small children and frequent landlubber guests.

Why not the Lavac for weekend use ?

I am looking to replace a 5 year old Jabsco, and am trying to sort out which is best for me.

30 foot sailboat - 2 adults - usually weekend and also 3-4 day weekend use in summer. Prefer manual to electric - toilet is plumbed to a holding tank, using lake water for flush.

From what I can tell, the PH2 and PHC are the same except for size differences.
The Raritan Compact II looks a lot like the Jabsco, so I am assuming it does not have as good a pump as the PH2 or PHC, and therefore is not in the short-list.

I also have read good things about the Lavac, but am curious about Peggie's statement above.

As an aside - I am in Ontario Canada - and *no-one* seems to sell Raritan - only Jabsco and Lavac......

I am leaning towards either:
PH2 or PHC (can't seem to locate in Canada though)
Lavac Popular

So - in addition to the best head recommendation, I am also interested in anyone who knows of Canadian suppliers (SBO is a good shop, but UPS brokerage fees to Canada are outrageous).

Paul

 

[sailingdog]

The problem with the Lavac is that it can be a bit difficult to use if you're not used to it...

Also, if you have seasick guests, it can be a problem, since to flush the Lavac, the lid is closed, and the lid is sealed due to vacuum pressure for a while, as the head finishes flushing... How many times have you seen a seasick guest close the lid and start flushing the head only to have to puke again...with a Lavac, it often results in a major mess.

Why not the Lavac for weekend use ?

I am looking to replace a 5 year old Jabsco, and am trying to sort out which is best for me.

30 foot sailboat - 2 adults - usually weekend and also 3-4 day weekend use in summer. Prefer manual to electric - toilet is plumbed to a holding tank, using lake water for flush.

From what I can tell, the PH2 and PHC are the same except for size differences.
The Raritan Compact II looks a lot like the Jabsco, so I am assuming it does not have as good a pump as the PH2 or PHC, and therefore is not in the short-list.

I also have read good things about the Lavac, but am curious about Peggie's statement above.

As an aside - I am in Ontario Canada - and *no-one* seems to sell Raritan - only Jabsco and Lavac......

I am leaning towards either:
PH2 or PHC (can't seem to locate in Canada though)
Lavac Popular

So - in addition to the best head recommendation, I am also interested in anyone who knows of Canadian suppliers (SBO is a good shop, but UPS brokerage fees to Canada are outrageous).

Paul

As for getting it across the border... do you have any friends that could order it for you in the USA and then drive it across the border???

 

[Peggie Hall HeadMistress]

Two adults, infrequent guests...

And the Lavac is a lot more readily available in CN for a reasonable price than the PHII/PHC.

That makes an excellent case for going with the Lavac IMO.

 

[PKFK]

Also considering the PHC-LBA

I also was considering the PHC-LBA which is qbout 220 US on the SBO site.

A Lavac runs about $450 CDN.

I am just a bit hesitant about plunking my Jabsco Compact bowl on the PHC-LBA.....is it *really* a drop-in fit ? (Most boat stuff seems to have a gotcha in the installation somewhere !!)

Paul

 

[PKFK]

Hi -

I have yet more questions.....the Lavac web site says about 3 quarts per flush.

From researching here, Peggie sez that adults will use the head about 5X per person per day - and my holding tank is 25 gallons. So we are looking at 30 quarts per day for 2 people.

That means 3 and a bit days and we are "full" in the holding tank.

I know that my Jabsco head allows us to go away for 3 days, and the tank is only about 2/3 full......so......does anyone know -

Does the Lavac use more water than the Raritan / Jabsco manual type toilets ?

Lavac seemed to be a good idea, but now I am wondering if it will fill my tanks faster than the other options ? Does anyone have real-world experience comparing "output" of the 2 heads ?

We sail in a strictly NDZ (inland - Ottawa River), and it's a trip back to the club if we need a pumpout - no faciliites are available up the river.

Paul

 

[Peggie Hall HeadMistress]

I think you better read it again

Hi -I have yet more questions.....the Lavac web site says about 3 quarts per flush.

Nope...it says 3 PINTS. http://www.lavac.com/popular-model.htm

If you want it to work the way it's supposed to, you'll need to pay a LOT closer attention to the installation instructions than you did to that!

 

[sailingdog]

LOL... Peggie's right... you'll need to read things a bit more closely to get it installed and working properly.

Nope...it says 3 PINTS. http://www.lavac.com/popular-model.htm

If you want it to work the way it's supposed to, you'll need to pay a LOT closer attention to the installation instructions than you did to that!

 

[Neil McDonald]

Brokerage Fees

UPS brokerage fees to Canada are outrageous).l

The good news is that there are no brokerage fees for items shipped from the US to Canada via the US Postal Service. The bad news is that many US based suppliers will not use this service.

Also look out for US suppliers who think that they are doing you a favor when they inflate the stated value of the goods they are shipping. This helps should you have an insurance claim, but drives up the import duties that you usually have to pay.

 

[Steve Dion]

You will need to determine if you have enough room for some of these toilets. That is why I opted for a Raritan Sea-era

 

[PKFK]

OK OK - pints/quarts, etc....I'm Canadian eh.....Liters work well for me

The Lavac is made in the UK (I think)...but distributed from Florida - so the water consumption might be based on Imperial Pints (570 ml) or US Pints (470 ml) - depends on wich "pint" they had in mind when specing the darn thing.

If I split the difference I end up with about 1.5 liters per flush - which seems very reasonable. (2 adults X 5 uses per person per day = 15 liters, plus the human component added to the flush of course).

This is all based on literature of course......I recall another thread discussing these Lavac units where the poster was complaining about it using quite a bit more water than the literature claimed - but there was debate about installation issues.

Does any one have any real life comparison of the actual water use of the Lavac vs. say a manual Raritan ? (I *thiink* I saw a post where Peggie mentioned having a Lavac in the past).

Thanks !!

Paul

 

[Peggie Hall HeadMistress]

No matter which measurement you use...quart or liter

A pint is half of it. And the difference between the US system and the metric system is about one flush/tankful.

On average all piston/cylinder manual toilets need about 2 quarts/liters...and based on how long it's been taking to fill up your tank using your jabsco, that's about what you've been using. 3 pints is about 1.5 qyarts/liters...or half what you've been using.

But if you REALLY want to know how much is going into the tank down to the last ounce/ml...you'll have to take into consideration how much your bladder holds...how much your wife's holds...average volume of solid waste--which is 75% water, btw)....decide whether use the US or metric system to measure 'em...and then add the average to the flush water use. Only then will you know EXACTLY how much is going into the tank with each flush. :stirthepot:

 

[PKFK]

Thanks ! Relative info was what I was trying to get !

I didn't want to know amounts down to the "last drop".....what I was trying to understand was whether the Lavac would filll my holding tank much more quickly than the Jabsco I currently have.

And from Peggie's last posting, it looks like we should be OK (volume-wise) going with a Lavac solution.

Time to do some careful measuring ( and yes I will read carefully !!).

Thanks very much for your inputs. I will likely have more questions later on, but I am set for now.

Paul

 

[PKFK]

The "careful measuring" will be of the head compartment, not of other "stuff" mentioned in Peggie's previous post -

Just thought I would clarify that before the jokes started

 

[sailingdog]

Ruin all our fun...

The "careful measuring" will be of the head compartment, not of other "stuff" mentioned in Peggie's previous post -

Just thought I would clarify that before the jokes started

 

[CarlN]

I'm planning to swap my well used Lavac's for Raritan Elegances. Here's my thinking:

With all due respect to my English ancestors, the operation of the Lavac is - well - non-intuitive. Experience sailors look for valves that aren't there. Others are apparently comforted by watching their waste go down the drain. Even after a demonstration, no one can remember what to do when the need arises. And while the Lavac is extraordinarily difficult to clog (I never have), it does a relatively bad job of cleaning it's bowl -- requiring multiple flushes. This means flushing, waiting a while for the seat to release, poking with the toilet brush, shutting the lid and flushing again, waiting to check again...

My wife and I have developed excellent "aim" for both solids and toilet paper - but I've never found an acceptably delicate way to explain this to guests.

I know the above sounds negative. The Lavac is a great head for the right application. It doesn't clog and doesn't break (except for normal replacing of the seals and pump valves). I can think of no more reliable head. If I was heading off on a circumnavigation of the southern oceans, the Lavac would be my choice.

My choice of the Elegance is based upon far too much time flushing toilets at boat shows and talking to the Raritan folks. They are incredibly proud of their new Elegance - an put up with me far too long. The Elegance is very quiet. Compact but with a good size seat. Easy to install. Great bowl cleaning. Very little water use.

If you get the simple button controls, it costs only a little more than the Sea Era. If you get the computerized button you can program the amount of water used in a flush down to almost nothing.

I have no relation to Raritan and my ravings are based upon boat show investigations rather than actual use. In a few months I will hopefully have "real life" reports.

By the way, Raritan will also sell you a simple kit to plumb the Elegance for either salt or fresh water flush. You just flip a little electric switch installed next to the head.

Carl