Greetings folks, I have a big problem and want to get any input from the community please. I have had my sail boat in a slip going on two years. I will try to be brief as possible. The problem started when i got fuel the first time, I asked for diesel and they gave me gas. The engine ran for a while then would not keep running. A mechanic told me i needed a new fuel pump as i had not enough pressure, imagine that! after a long process and time the gas was discovered. The dock master at the time the marina said we would work it out on rent. No bills came in the mail untill one year passed and i got a certified letter saying my boat will be auctioned off as an abandoned boat. I got there the following week after talking to them on phone. Gave them money, a forth of my balance after explaning what the dock master told me and not getting any bills and no calls. The head manager took the money and agreed not to sell my boat and he would research my fuel story, the new dock master said they would keep it impounded untill i paid off the rest of what was owed or we come to another arrangement. I left and the boat was in their posession and i was not to board it. six weeks later they called and said the boat has damage from a storm. I got there to find it trashed, a hole in the hull the size of a basket ball, full of water, stantions ripped out of the deck, rigging gone, sails gone probably a total loss, it had not been tied to the dock correctly im sure. They said it broke loose and was battered by the dock, in a storm. The whole side is damaged down to the glass as well. My question is this, are they liable for the damage done? The boat was in their posession, they put it there and should have made sure it was in a safe and secure location, It was right in front of their office on the lake. So far they are not assuming any liability, but will let me fix it my self in their yard. Please tell me what you think? Do i have a case in small claims? The contract reads that they are never liable for any damage to a renters property, but that is really for a boat in the renters slip, isnt it? They had controll and posession of my boat. Thanks Rcastle298@aol.com
New guy needs advise on a marina problem?
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Insured?
Hi mpowered - Bummer of a story! You can certainly try to take the marina to small claims court but I don't know that you'd win. I'm hoping you had the boat insured! Best of luck and let us know what happens! Trevor
Hi mpowered - Bummer of a story! You can certainly try to take the marina to small claims court but I don't know that you'd win. I'm hoping you had the boat insured! Best of luck and let us know what happens! Trevor
Who pays?
I'm so sorry to hear about what you went through. You may be at risk since, based on what you have written here, you acted on a verbal promise from the previous dockmaster with no formal agreement from management. It all depends on evidence you can produce, not hearsay, but eyewitness testimony or documents. If you could find the dockmaster who told you that and get him to sign an affidavit or testify for you, great. But then, did he have the authority to forgive your slip fees? No one can say what the outcome of a court case will be. That's why judges exist - to hear the case and make a decision based on what's presented in court. The marina has a case too. In my experience, you may get more by sitting down with someone associated with the marina who has the authority to grant your request and do some serious negotiating. Hear their side of it and present yours. I would urge you to consider court action last. It takes a lot of time and money and you may not get what you want. Based on the limited information you provided, the marina can argue that you weren't a paying customer and therefore they had no duty of care toward your boat. Your arguement is that you were paying them to take care of your boat and they were negligent. You probably have to prove negligence or maybe gross negligence on they part to collect anything. Their statement that they aren't liable for damages may not include negligence on their part - but it depends on bailment laws in your state. An attorney can maybe help, but how much money are we talking about here in total? Best Wishes
I'm so sorry to hear about what you went through. You may be at risk since, based on what you have written here, you acted on a verbal promise from the previous dockmaster with no formal agreement from management. It all depends on evidence you can produce, not hearsay, but eyewitness testimony or documents. If you could find the dockmaster who told you that and get him to sign an affidavit or testify for you, great. But then, did he have the authority to forgive your slip fees? No one can say what the outcome of a court case will be. That's why judges exist - to hear the case and make a decision based on what's presented in court. The marina has a case too. In my experience, you may get more by sitting down with someone associated with the marina who has the authority to grant your request and do some serious negotiating. Hear their side of it and present yours. I would urge you to consider court action last. It takes a lot of time and money and you may not get what you want. Based on the limited information you provided, the marina can argue that you weren't a paying customer and therefore they had no duty of care toward your boat. Your arguement is that you were paying them to take care of your boat and they were negligent. You probably have to prove negligence or maybe gross negligence on they part to collect anything. Their statement that they aren't liable for damages may not include negligence on their part - but it depends on bailment laws in your state. An attorney can maybe help, but how much money are we talking about here in total? Best Wishes
call your insurance company
this is assuming it was/is insured. If the damage is as bad as you describe it will most likely be totaled out. The fuel/mechanical problems becomes mute if they do total it out.You may or may not have a legal case based on your story but the lawyers would be my last resort as they will be expensive and no promise that you will win.The legal route may give you some clout in dealing with the marina owner/manager,who you should have been dealing with from the very start of the problem. I would question that the dock masters has the authority to forgive slip rental unless he is the manager or owner also.Another thought is that you might want to contact the marina's insurance company and make a claim against them and the marina but this can get difficult and you may need a lawyer to do this as the marina may not be willing or obligated to even tell you who there insurance company is without a little push from a lawyer.If you are not insured you can try small claims court (I would guess that you damages are above the limit and you can only get the max amount that you state permits)Good luck getting it resolved. I do hope you had the boat insured,and I think I would be looking for a new marina!Keep us updated!
this is assuming it was/is insured. If the damage is as bad as you describe it will most likely be totaled out. The fuel/mechanical problems becomes mute if they do total it out.You may or may not have a legal case based on your story but the lawyers would be my last resort as they will be expensive and no promise that you will win.The legal route may give you some clout in dealing with the marina owner/manager,who you should have been dealing with from the very start of the problem. I would question that the dock masters has the authority to forgive slip rental unless he is the manager or owner also.Another thought is that you might want to contact the marina's insurance company and make a claim against them and the marina but this can get difficult and you may need a lawyer to do this as the marina may not be willing or obligated to even tell you who there insurance company is without a little push from a lawyer.If you are not insured you can try small claims court (I would guess that you damages are above the limit and you can only get the max amount that you state permits)Good luck getting it resolved. I do hope you had the boat insured,and I think I would be looking for a new marina!Keep us updated!
Don't acknowledge anything
Don't pay a dime! Any positive move may be construed as an acknowledgement at this point. Save all paperwork. Let a lawyer look into it for you. It sounds like a civil matter and should be in an attorney's hands. I think this out-prices small claims court, too. Good Luck!!!
Don't pay a dime! Any positive move may be construed as an acknowledgement at this point. Save all paperwork. Let a lawyer look into it for you. It sounds like a civil matter and should be in an attorney's hands. I think this out-prices small claims court, too. Good Luck!!!
Liability for damage
I didn't read the other responses, so I may be duplicating. A. Don't talk to the people who are doing you damage, write them letters. This gives you a paper trail. B. Get a lawyer. In my state, anyone who damages another is responsible to repair the damage he causes. This is the basis of tort (personal injury) law in Louisiana, and there are similar laws in every state. C. Though your agreement with the harbor says they are not responsible for damage to your property, they are almost certainly liable for their own negligence. You don't have a right to sue for negligence until it occurs. You can't wave a right until you have it. If the agreement relieves them of negligence before they've committed it, it is null on its face. D. There are all kinds of issues when it comes to verbal or written agreements. States differ and the interplay between written and verbal can be complicated. This brings us back to B above. Most Lawyers will speak to you for a consultation fee. They may tell you its for fifteen minutes but I've never seen a lawyer who could state his position that quickly. If its important enough to you, pay the fee and you will get an answer. In the meantime, stop being a patsy. Take control and demand your due. You may think that you've made demands, but you would be amazed at what people will do when a lawyer writes a thirty five dollar demand letter (which is what I used to charge). If they've ever been sued, you will get an amazing response. Defending a law suit is expensive and seldom gratifying. Good Luck Buddy
I didn't read the other responses, so I may be duplicating. A. Don't talk to the people who are doing you damage, write them letters. This gives you a paper trail. B. Get a lawyer. In my state, anyone who damages another is responsible to repair the damage he causes. This is the basis of tort (personal injury) law in Louisiana, and there are similar laws in every state. C. Though your agreement with the harbor says they are not responsible for damage to your property, they are almost certainly liable for their own negligence. You don't have a right to sue for negligence until it occurs. You can't wave a right until you have it. If the agreement relieves them of negligence before they've committed it, it is null on its face. D. There are all kinds of issues when it comes to verbal or written agreements. States differ and the interplay between written and verbal can be complicated. This brings us back to B above. Most Lawyers will speak to you for a consultation fee. They may tell you its for fifteen minutes but I've never seen a lawyer who could state his position that quickly. If its important enough to you, pay the fee and you will get an answer. In the meantime, stop being a patsy. Take control and demand your due. You may think that you've made demands, but you would be amazed at what people will do when a lawyer writes a thirty five dollar demand letter (which is what I used to charge). If they've ever been sued, you will get an amazing response. Defending a law suit is expensive and seldom gratifying. Good Luck Buddy
I hate to rain on a good parade
but how about being NICE first? While they "did you wrong" it certainly wouldn't hurt to either write them a nice letter explaining the situation, or meeting with them and taking VERY GOOD note about how nice you've been. Call in the artillery later if necessary. Good luck. Stu
but how about being NICE first? While they "did you wrong" it certainly wouldn't hurt to either write them a nice letter explaining the situation, or meeting with them and taking VERY GOOD note about how nice you've been. Call in the artillery later if necessary. Good luck. Stu
ATTN: Dooley
Dooley, can you contact me off-forumn at hparsons@parsonsys.com? I have a legal question in Louisiana for you (NOT seeking free advice) As to the rest, wow, sounds complicated. Unfortunately, being "nice guy" in complicated situations usually means you lose. I'd suggest you try for a short time (say a week or two) to work something out with the marina, then see a lawyer. At that point, you'd probably have to forget about small claims court, unless you'd be happy with a pretty small settlement. Don't know the legalities, but MY view is that you made a verbal contract with a representantative of the marina. They then took possesions of your boat, improperly (based on the assumption of a verbal contract). They then allowed the boat to suffer damange while in their possession.
Dooley, can you contact me off-forumn at hparsons@parsonsys.com? I have a legal question in Louisiana for you (NOT seeking free advice) As to the rest, wow, sounds complicated. Unfortunately, being "nice guy" in complicated situations usually means you lose. I'd suggest you try for a short time (say a week or two) to work something out with the marina, then see a lawyer. At that point, you'd probably have to forget about small claims court, unless you'd be happy with a pretty small settlement. Don't know the legalities, but MY view is that you made a verbal contract with a representantative of the marina. They then took possesions of your boat, improperly (based on the assumption of a verbal contract). They then allowed the boat to suffer damange while in their possession.
Marina's Insurance
While speaking of insurance - hopefully you have. Consider this may be covered by your marina's insurance carrier. If they were truely in possession of your boat (you were not allowed to board)they would be resposible. Assuming you had insurance, the easiest way to proceed is to file a claim with your carrier, let them investigate (they are good at that) and if they can, subrigate the claim (your isnurance goes after the marina to repay the claim). Also remember your insurance company has lawyers on staff to defend their position - if they are behind you, they will do the sueing on your behalf. So, everybody have their premiums paid up? I'm not even a lawyer or insurance agent, but my brother is an attorney and I've seen how the law can be manipulated. Good luck and I hope you'll be sailing soon.
While speaking of insurance - hopefully you have. Consider this may be covered by your marina's insurance carrier. If they were truely in possession of your boat (you were not allowed to board)they would be resposible. Assuming you had insurance, the easiest way to proceed is to file a claim with your carrier, let them investigate (they are good at that) and if they can, subrigate the claim (your isnurance goes after the marina to repay the claim). Also remember your insurance company has lawyers on staff to defend their position - if they are behind you, they will do the sueing on your behalf. So, everybody have their premiums paid up? I'm not even a lawyer or insurance agent, but my brother is an attorney and I've seen how the law can be manipulated. Good luck and I hope you'll be sailing soon.
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