New Guest Battery Charger

[SailArkansas]

I am getting ready to install a new Guest Cruising Charger Model 2614A. The owners manual warns against charging both batteries at the same time (battery switch on the 'all' position). It specifies charging one battery, then the other. Does anyone know why? Charged both batteries at the same time on my old charger and it lasted at least 6 years plus (I bought the boat used).

 

[Don S/V ILLusion]

specs state:
Total Amps: 15 Amps
Number of Outputs: 2
Amps per output: 10/5

Looks like it is designed for two banks but will take forever to charge them.

 

[Steve Dion]

There has not been a lot good said about the Guest chargers on this site over the years. You can get a quality unit like a Xantrex TrueCharge 2 40 amp for around the same amount.

I had a Xantrex/Statpower 40 on my previous boat. It is still running after 12+ years and it is working 24 x 7.

Xantrex has several different models depending on what you are looking for.

If the mfg tells you to only charge one battery at a time, there must be a reason. I would cut my losses now. Batteries are getting more expensive every year (lead is going up in price) so you want to baby them to extend their max. life.

 

[higgs]

Take it back and get a Xantrex. Mine charges all the time - even when the switch is set to off.

 

[Maine Sail]

specs state:
Total Amps: 15 Amps
Number of Outputs: 2
Amps per output: 10/5

Looks like it is designed for two banks but will take forever to charge them.

This is one of the main reasons I often prefer a single output charger. My preference, in a great value charger, are the Iota's.

When combined with an ACR or an Echo type charger they work very, very well and all the switching etc. is done behind the scenes. Many of the chargers out there claim 15A BUT when you read the lit you really only get 10A & 5A or a true divided output. The main problem with this is that often times the starter battery will be accepting less than 1 amp so you'll have 4+ amps totally wasted and only 10A for the house bank no matter what the start bank is accepting in terms of amps.

Iota chargers like the DLS-30 IQ4 with the IQ4 smart controller are less expensive per $ of amp output, hold up well in the marine environment, are extremely reliable, and use single output so you can use an ACR or Echo charger to get the full rated output of the charger, if needed.

A Xantrex 20A True Charge is $241.00 at Defender but with the DLS-30/IQ4 you get 10 more amps for significantly less money, about $160.00. That $80.00 +/- savings will pay for an ACR which is an excellent upgrade.

An ACR (Automatic Combining Relay) automatically combines your batteries, for charging, when they sense a voltage over 13.2V and automatically disconnects when the voltage drops below about 13V. It takes the place of a human selecting BOTH, only it does not forget. They will work for ALL charging sources such as alternator, wind, solar and battery charger. Blue Seas makes an ACR that can be had for about ACR $77.00.

 

[Snotter]

Most alternators need a combiner any way so, in my flawed thinking, why is a multi-bank charger needed? (Rhetorical question.) If you get a high-output, multi-bank charger, you will spend more on wire.

 

[flynfol]

I will second Maine Sail's plug for Iota. I have used the DLS 30 for years on an offgrid cabin installation. When I didn't need it there, I brought it home and have been using it on my backup sump pump system. Then they came out with the IQ4 regulation option, this changes it to a "smart" charger(I'm thinking that was $30). So I bought another DLS 30 for the boat about 2 years ago(IQ4 already on board), and it has been going 24/7 since. You can use one with a greater output based on battery capacity( I have two group 27s charged separately). If you want to learn more about FLA batteries and charging, check this out..........http://www.windsun.com/Batteries/Battery_FAQ.htm

Fair winds,
J

 

[Maine Sail]

Most alternators need a combiner any way so, in my flawed thinking, why is a multi-bank charger needed? (Rhetorical question.) If you get a high-output, multi-bank charger, you will spend more on wire.

You will also spend more on fuses and the "multi-bank" charger....

 

[Chuckbear]

we have been extremely pleased with the Iota Chargers and more importantly, so are the batteries,
http://tinyurl.com/cybgo7

 

[Bill Roosa]

Answering the question

The reason you don't want to charge both batteries at the same time is you end up combining them through the charger to do it. If you are trying to isolate your house and start batteries you can't with that setup. you can acomplish the same thing by connecting to the 3 way switch common terminal. Then you can do 1-2-both as needed. The charger does not work very well when you leave the boat and turn the 3-way to OFF however. which is why all the folks are telling you to get a different kind of charger that isolates the banks internally in the charger so yo can leave it connected to the house and start and not have them combined.

Course you could take the opinion that my start battery really does not need to ever see a shore power charger just like my car battery. it mostly just sits there with occasional starter loads which immediteatly get recharged. I've not had mine connected, ever.
FWIW

 

[SailArkansas]

The reason you don't want to charge both batteries at the same time is you end up combining them through the charger to do it. If you are trying to isolate your house and start batteries you can't with that setup. you can acomplish the same thing by connecting to the 3 way switch common terminal. Then you can do 1-2-both as needed. The charger does not work very well when you leave the boat and turn the 3-way to OFF however. which is why all the folks are telling you to get a different kind of charger that isolates the banks internally in the charger so yo can leave it connected to the house and start and not have them combined.

Course you could take the opinion that my start battery really does not need to ever see a shore power charger just like my car battery. it mostly just sits there with occasional starter loads which immediteatly get recharged. I've not had mine connected, ever.
FWIW

I like the latter opinion you express a lot. I needed to replace my charger and my goal was to get one that would sense a low battery if the bilge pump were cycling. Since my boat sits in the water all of the time and I am 6 hours away I tend to worry about these things. Somehow or other the bilge pump is directly connected to one or both batteries because I can cycle the pump using the float switch even with my battery switch in the off position. So if I understand you correctly and the bilge pump is connected to the house battery then I can leave the switch to battery 2 when I leave the boat and I should have some margin of safety. And just let the nbr 1 battery take care of itself as the alternator will recharge it when the diesel is running. Right?

 

[Honeyman]

I've just thrown away my 2nd and LAST Xantrex Charger!!! Newest model 20amp lasted all of 4 months before it went up in smoke. Didn't sent it back because there will NEVER be another one of their products on my boat.

 

[Maine Sail]

I've just thrown away my 2nd and LAST Xantrex Charger!!! Newest model 20amp lasted all of 4 months before it went up in smoke. Didn't sent it back because there will NEVER be another one of their products on my boat.

Did you run this off a generator by any chance? Don't worry I agree with your sentiments on Xantrex chargers but some of them just will not tolerate unclean generator power and it kills them. I know one guy who went through four of them before switching brands. His current one works with his gen set just fine..

 

[Honeyman]

No generator operation. Just not willing to chance another one from them. Thanks for all you do on the site MaineSail!

 

[Steve Dion]

SailArkansas:

You should be able to cycle your bilge pump with the battery switch in the off position. It would be normally would be hooked to the house bank.

Depending on the charger that you get, you would be able to charge both banks with the battery switch in the off position too. The battery switch is really only to control which bank you are drawing from for either starting or housekeeping. We start our engine with the house bank and save the starting battery for the ultimate emergency.

I chose to put a new Xantrex XC unit on my current boat. It is a 30 amp charger that puts out up to 30 amps per bank. It will charge a bank and then cycle to the next bank and charge it. Many of the older units would split their output between the banks (ie: 40 amp charger would output 20 amp per leg if two banks were charged or 13 amp per leg if 3 leg were charged). The XC units also allow for multiple chemistries to be charged with a single charger. I currently use an Optima AGM for the starter bank & Gel Cells for housekeeping. They are all charged with the same charger. It has been good to me for the past 3 years, so I have no complaints with the Xantrex products.

PS: I did just test the starting battery a couple of weeks ago to make sure that it WOULD in fact start the boat.

 

[SailArkansas]

SailArkansas:

You should be able to cycle your bilge pump with the battery switch in the off position. It would be normally would be hooked to the house bank.

Depending on the charger that you get, you would be able to charge both banks with the battery switch in the off position too. The battery switch is really only to control which bank you are drawing from for either starting or housekeeping. We start our engine with the house bank and save the starting battery for the ultimate emergency.

I chose to put a new Xantrex XC unit on my current boat. It is a 30 amp charger that puts out up to 30 amps per bank. It will charge a bank and then cycle to the next bank and charge it. Many of the older units would split their output between the banks (ie: 40 amp charger would output 20 amp per leg if two banks were charged or 13 amp per leg if 3 leg were charged). The XC units also allow for multiple chemistries to be charged with a single charger. I currently use an Optima AGM for the starter bank & Gel Cells for housekeeping. They are all charged with the same charger. It has been good to me for the past 3 years, so I have no complaints with the Xantrex products.

PS: I did just test the starting battery a couple of weeks ago to make sure that it WOULD in fact start the boat.

Thanks for replying Steve but now I am totally confused. If the switch only determines which battery is being discharged and not which is being charged, then how can I comply with Guest's instructions to charge one battery and then the other? The model I bought is hard wired so its not like I can just connect and disconnect similar to battery jump cables.

The wiring is already in place so it is what it is unless I start over and that would be a real pain on my boat as are most of my projects. It would be nice, however, to relocate the charger from the the cockpit sail locker to some place more accessible. Probably better for the charger also. I do have room under the galley sink behind the trash bin where the house batter is located. There is a 110 volt outlet in the galley area that I could tie into.

Lets just say that I did start over and rewire. Can anyone out there provide a schematic of the optimal setup using a 10/5 amp charger and a 3 way battery switch?

 

[Steve Dion]

If your system is properly wired the charger will know which battery banks are charged and which ones need charging.

I think you should consider returning the Guest unit and evaluate what setup you want. Something like Maine Sail has suggested with the Iota or something like the Xantrex units. I prefer the setup that I have because there are fewer things for an electronics genius like me <g> to screw up.

Whatever you do, you want your charger to be independent of the A-B (1-2-all) switch. Let the electronics do the monitoring.

 

[SailArkansas]

After about 6 months now I am pretty satisfied with the Guest charger I installed. The only problem I have encountered so far is AM/FM radio interference. It isn't a problem when the charger is in the low charge mode but seems to be when it is in stage 1 or 2. My radio antenna runs directly over the charger. Can I shield the antenna in some way?