New Brakes

[dscribner]

So, for the past year or so, almost every time I pull out, I have one drum or the other locked up tight. They were free wheeling when I stopped and I have a wash system to get the salt out. I disassembled, greased and adjusted last fall. It worked for a couple of trips then started seizing again. I dig furrows in my driveway, a foot deep, 15 feet long, trying to break them loose. Last Thursday, when I got to the ramp, grease was boiling and spitting out of the bearings. I threw water on the wheel and it exploded in steam, twice. So, I said "Screw it, get her in the water and I'll worry about it in three days when I get back." We broke it loose when we got back and got home with no heat build up or other issues. That said . . .

I just ordered a complete new brake system, disk this time. New everything, including hubs and bearings. I'd like additional corrosion resistance and think I can help out by painting many of the parts with something like, marine paint or Rhino liner, spray rubber maybe. I'd like to paint the calipers, hubs (except for the rotor area) lugs, nuts. bolts, brackets . . . On the lugs, I'm thinking of using Never Seize. Can anybody confirm or deny that this is a good course of action?

Don

 

[Bad Obsession]

Just curious, what did the complete new brake system run and where did you get it?

 

[Brian S]

I should think you'd want to contact the brake manufacturer to inquire. Also, powder coating the parts might be better. A guy I worked with was powder coating small suspension parts for a car in his oven at home using a home powder coat kit.

I painted my boom and my AL rudder headstock with VHT Specialty Products Epoxy Paint sourced at local Auto Zone store: http://www.vhtpaint.com/products/epoxypaint/ So far, the boom has held up well for 1.5 seasons under cover most of the time, and the headstock looks the same as when I painted it this spring, but this is all fresh water.

Brian

 

[tkanzler]

There are SS disc brake kits, though I don't know anything about them other than they exist and boaters (especially salt water boaters) use them.

 

[dscribner]

I looked at SS brakes but they were MUCH more expensive. I paid $404 plus shipping from PBSboatstore.com

 

[KD3PC]

first, and I will try and be diplomatic...cooling them with water is about the worst thing you can do to them. Sudden temp changes of that range will crack bearing races and retainers in a heartbeat. Grease generally doesn't boil...water in the grease will and signifies that the grease is no longer doing it's job. Doing that will shorten the life of the brakes, bearings and hubs, exponentially.

Second what is seizing up? the bearings? or the shoes? or both?

IF it is the bearings, good watertight seals on the inside (towards the trailer) and a bearing buddy or some other waterproof cap on the outside...should keep the bearings dry and adequately lubed for at least a season. With out seals, it matters not what type of brakes you have (disk or drum) the bearings are going to washout, and destroy themselves in a matter of a few high speed miles...possibly shear the spindle and things will drag.

IF it is the drum that is another issue altogether. There should be a drain hole at the base of the backing plate and the shoes should not be so tight as to drag when being assembled....ie adjust them loosely. Adjust the electronic brake controller to gently apply brakes....if this a magnet system, then per the manufacturer. The magnets could be shot and giving you ONLY two options....brakes on or brakes off...I suspect the former. You should be able to hear the magnets latch as you apply the brakes. Not hearing them requires investigation as to what actually is happening when you press the brake pedal.

Without bearing protection your new stuff is going to fail. Coating parts is generally not a good idea unless you know what you are doing and what to leave "uncoated" as
even powder coating and anodizing add thickness to things, and if they are heating up and dragging as manufactured, adding thickness is going to make that worse.

What is seizing?

 

[Dan Hill]

What was happening is simply rust.

Let me see if I got this right. Pulled your boat from the water and drove home, hooked up brake wash system and flushed. Next time to leave for the water your wheel or wheels won't turn. Sound right?

Your brake shoes are rusting to the drums. I've seen this happen on tractor trailers that would not let the wheels turn even loaded! It can be very strong. Once broke free they will clean themselves up "mostly" but brake life is lost.

The grease "boiling" event was a brake dragging due to rusted components or a system failure I'm sure.

A disc brake system will cure your troubles as they are less likely to rust lockup, if you must wash your brakes off after a trip go out for a short drive to dry them off fully.

FYI, Painting brake components will make them retain more heat, bad idea imho.

Good luck on your brake conversion!

 

[Benny17441]

It seems like your bearings are seizing because they are overheating. Try replacin the bearings and seals and after properly greasing insure that your tires are well inflated and rated for the load. If you have recurrent problems I would advise you replace the axle. Trailer hubs should be allowed to cool before backing into the water.

 

[dscribner]

Surge brakes don't have electronic actuators, unless you invest in the electro-hydraulic kind , very expensive. I have bearing buddies that I top off before each trip. If the bearings were shot, the problem wouldn't go away intermittently. The grease was so hot that it was boiling and spitting from the bearing buddy. It was dragging brakes. Once freed up, the roll fine.

 

[DAVA390]

I see you are replacing bearings also, best move I think.
I feel your pain, 3 days after I brought B.W. home, new tires, bearings ,brakes all 4 wheels. Added 20% to the value of my boat in the first week I had it !!

 

[dscribner]

Dave,

Yep. Bearings are in the box. Starting just as soon as I put down the Android and flush!

 

[finding41]

I picked up a "new boat" (88 Mac26D) this spring. It had sat on it's stock trailer (no beaks) half in the water, for the last 8 years! In Canada the water gets really hard in winter!
When a buddy pulled it out he inflated the tires and greased the Bearing Buddies. Then drove 200km home! Stopping every 20k or so, then every 50k. The bearings didn't get hot! (I had sent him a new set of hubs with nuts and bearings just in-case.... 8 years submerged in fresh water!)
I picked it up from his place, changed the tires and added grease. Then drove almost 400 km home. Stopped twice for coffee and the bearings were fine. (They did throw some grease onto the hull but I think I over filled them.)
I can't say enough good about Bearing Buddies!
I am yet to pull the hubs as I plan a new axle with disc breaks next spring. I will document the bearings and hubs when I do.
Here is a pic or two of the boat ware it sat for 8 years. The water is down for the first time in over 10 years for dam construction on the Trent Severn. (If it wasn't it would have been a different job getting it out.)
Did I mention Bearing Buddies?

 

[RDS2012]

Don't think so. Tell us again! Lol.

 

[finding41]

RDS: Huh?
PM me and I'll give you the whole story.
Yea. PO said 8 years. (She got it in the divorce along with the cottage. It was his. She didn't touch it for 8 years. It sat with the sails on it right ware it is in the pic above! The main and Subrella cover were pooched along with the furled jib.) She had the place landscaped and removed the only access tow it out! That's a grudge!
My buddy used the neighbors access to get it out.

I'll get some good pictures of the trailer some time soon. The rust development (Bubbles up like a pimple.) looks to me like it was submerged.
Here is a picture of the front port bunk.
In the above pic, the stuff on the cabin top is moss.

 

[Ray Bowles]

Dan Hill got it right. Rust.
When bearings seize up they a totally destroyed. There is no unseizing.
When you tow your trailer and use the brakes it scowers the brake drum clean and exposes a new metalic surface. Now you put that trailer in salt water or sometimes in fresh and that new surface starts to rust immediately and then the brake shoe also rusts to the drun. There is enough metalic in the shoes and from the drum to give a very good surface for new rust. It can seize up shortly after drying out. If you have ever set your emergency brake on a drum brake vehicle after launching or retrieving your boat you might have experenced this type of lock up in the tow vechicle when you first tried to move it.
Disc brakes will help alot if not totally.
Ray

 

[finding41]

My rusty trailer. If this had had any type of breaks it never would have moved.
The last picture shows how much grease was thrown out onto that rim during my 4 hour drive home. The other side did the same. The lug bolts look particularly rusty.

 

[dscribner]

Brakes went on fine. 3 hours one side, 15 minutes the other side. HOWEVER . . . the wheel hole was about .01" too small for the hub! It took about an hour per wheel to file and sand to get them to fit. Once on, I bled like crazy and took'er for a spin. Ran great. Stopped even better. Then came the trip to Camden. 2 1/2 hours. Piece of cake. Good investment.

 

[Crazy Dave Condon]

I use to teach my customers to stop and check the hubs after a few miles of towing, to check for any heat. Yes there will be some particularly on a hot day but if it is real hot, then the best advice is to pull over and get them repaired. Once with our camper in Pidgeon Forge, TN, I brought my wife back and she placed her hand on the rear axle and felt it was hot. I said brakes and we left it for repairs.

Most of the time, I find not enough grease is applied and the bearings and racers need to be checked once in a while along with the drums or disc brakes. I guess what I am saying is proper maintenance which will also include checking your hydraulic fluid on occasion in the case of surge brakes.

crazy dave condon