New 12V outlet = dead battery

[Sethic]

So... yet another of my triumphs er.. failings.

I installed a 12V cigarette-lighter-style outlet to allow easy charging of cell phones and other goodies on my H22 (and the operation of a spot light while under power at night till I get my running lights in order...).

From my experience with car stereos etc I really should have known better than to make this mistake, but after I drilled the hole for the outlet through the side of the dry sink and the shelving wall for the alcohol stove using my 1" hole saw, I still had to cram it in there pretty good to mount it flush. There may have been a hammer covered with a towel involved. I wired it up to the battery immediatly below my installation and zip tied the slack out of my wires. Clean install and looks good. Until -

During my previous adventure (see post "Stuck!") my buddy who was on the boat while I was in the water had trouble starting the motor using the power starter (Honda BF9.9 no remote). He had to use the pull cord. I assumed that was operator error like much else during that episode, until a week later when I came back in and prepared to re-start the motor to run the carb dry. Nothing. I verified the battery was in fact dead by starting with the pull cord, just as my buddy had done a week earlier.

Well you all already know the punch line. The 12V power receptacle has exposed leads at the back, which due to my cramming it in there are undoubtedly connected now causing a short and draining my battery. I'll be removing the thing this weekend and wrapping those leads in copious amounts of electrical tape, then cold-starting the motor using the pull cord (should only take 20 minutes of pulling...) before letting it run a bit to re-charge my dead battery.

Fairly warned be thee says I! As usual I'm just compentent enough to get myself into trouble. But, forgiving boat, small lake, lots of contingencies, all advisable safety equipment on board, and everything turns out ok.

 

[Clark]

Be forwarned. The engine alternator will produce its rated output near MAX throttle. If your battery is dead, it'll take x hours to get near charged where:
x=(battery AmpHr rating)/alternator output.

Do you have another way to recharge the battery?

 

[Sethic]

Good to know. There's no power available at my dock, so it sounds like I'll have to idle it / motor it for a good long while. Fortunately I have Fridays off!

On a likely related note, I've been troubleshooting my depth finder elsewhere online, and discovered that low battery voltage may be causing it to read >800ft while sitting at the dock in <4ft. In troubleshooting I've also gotten to know the thing a little better, and aparently it has a battery output meter on the depth finder display. I'll be locating and then utilizing that in charging the batter this weekend. I'll let you know how it goes.

Thanks for the info.

 

[Don12364]

And Fitting A Fuse I Hope!!!!!

 

[soling42]

If it was shorted then (as they say) "there'd be smoke escaping from your wiring". My guess is that you ran it flat or it's just worn out. At best, as Clark pointed out, you need lots more running time(or better yet take it home to a land charger for days) to bring it back up if you can at all.
You did run the new outlet through a power panel didn't you? Are the switches all off?

B safe.
Mike

 

[Bill Roosa]

Magical blue smoke

If you did not let the magical blue smoke out of the unit is should be OK. course if it does get out, even a tiny bit, it will not work no mater how much you pray over it.
I'd agree with the other posters, battery is flat due to undercharging or just plane gone bad. that's based on the fact that no blue smoke was noted escaping from the 12 volt outlet. Probably ought to consider a fuse also

 

[soling42]

Nothing beats a good electrical/any fire to get you in the mood for proper switches and fuses.

Had a Butane stove that caught fire in the galley recently. As fate would have it my sailing partner was a firefighter who casually said...hey Mike, your galley stove's a really hot looking design with those flames shooting out. I'm like!!!! WWAACCKK OMG

No amount of assurance will rebuild kellis trust in that stove even though it was completely rebuilt and certified trustworthy.

B safe, b humble, learn from other peoples mistakes and live to happily sail many many days

 

[Sethic]

There's an inline fuse on the outlet. Not sure off the top of my head what its rated to. I guess in theory if I had butted it up against something behind it... but wood and fiberglass are both insulators and if it were metal then yes I would have blown that fuse. I'll know more after I take a look on Friday. No I didn't wire it through a panel (!)

Hopefully this story won't end in a new battery, but I'll keep you posted!

 

[Sethic]

Bought a fire extinguisher / first aid kit / airhorn / spotlight last weekend. I'm a little sheepish about admitting that was 2 months after I bought the boat.

 

[Deucer]

Concur that your best bet is a solar panel. I got a 5 watt panel on sale at Harbor Freight for $29. Normally $59. But now that I have it, I wish I had it years ago. Worth full price. Would also install a solar controller to make sure the battery doesn't over charge. $29 at West Marine. So, for $88 plus tax, your battery worries are over. My batter is always at 13.2 volts when I got out to the boat, even if it's been weeks. Oh, and I hook the solar panel up through a....ready for it.....a cigarette socket I mounted in the stern. When the solar panel isn't charging the battery, I've got a power outlet handy near the tiller.

 

[Deucer]

One more thing. You can get a cheap battery monitor at Wal-Mart in the automotive section. It plugs into...ready, ready...a cigarette lighter socket.

 

[Bill Jones]

Stating the obvious

One of the benefits of a smaller boat is simplicity. Why not take the battery home and put it on a charger?

 

[isaksp00]

Deucer, I have been thinking about a solar panel for my 23 ft Hunter. How/where do you mount it - I assume it is removable, the way you describe it. I'd wire it straight to the battery terminals, using an in-line fuse holder (like the way the charging cable from the motor is wired). Does anyone know if it is OK to have the motor DC output and the solar output wired in parallel to the battery?

I have had to remove my battery to recharge (accidentally flipped anchor light switch to on when leaving boat), and it is heavy, sort of a PITA to remove the strap, pull out of the lazarrette, carry down the floating dock, etc. Removing is an option, but not a preferred one.

Thanks, Peter

 

[Bill Roosa]

power sources in parallel

I'm courious, how else would you think you could wire them?
Depending on the size of the solar panel in relation to the total battery bank size you would want a charge regulator for the bigger panels. Your alternator already has a charge regulator BTW

 

[isaksp00]

I meant, is it OK to have them in parallel and attached at the same time (I should have said that). I'd remove and stow and thus unhook the solar panel wires before starting the outboard, however, when at the mooring would it be OK to have the solar panel and regulator attached to the battery, which is also attached to the output wires from the (now shut down) outboard charging system - that is, could the voltage from the solar panel through to the battery side of the regulator possibly damage the electronics in the outboard's charging system? Could the output of the 8HP outboard's charging unit damage the still-hooked-up regulator (which I'd presumably leave in place even after stowing the solar panel)?

 

[Deucer]

isaksp00,

On the 260, you have a sugar scoop transom. I mounted the socket underneath the deck of the cockpit in the step down area by the motor. I wired it right up to the battery (with an in-line fuse). I put a male cigarette plug on the end of the solar panel. When we go sailing, I just unplug the panel and presto! I've got a power socket. When we get back to dock, I just plug the solar panel back in and set it in the cockpit (our slip faces south, so I get plenty of sun).

With the winter's short days, I'm not too concerned about overcharging the battery. I'm only getting about 3-4 amp hours a days. Plan on putting on the solar controller in a month or so.

I don't think there's any harm when the panel is hooked up at dock with the motor connected. Heck, they recommend the use of the panels on vehicles which have a lot more electronics. I unplug before I start up, so that's not a problem. I don't think there's any issue with the controller, either. The controller is designed to handle higher voltages from the panel and to prevent the battery from feeding back to the panel. So, should be no problem.

 

[soling42]

Here's a simple overview of controller function. Not just for over charging but preventing discharge in low light conditions too. Does it have a discharge diode? With so little gain, why give up any headway at night from discharge. Just a thought, Mike




"CONTROLLERS
Anytime you use a panel that is over 5 watts rated output, we recommend using a solar controller. Actually, a charge controller is a good idea in a majority of applications. A charge controller can provide several benefits such as preventing overcharge, improve charge quality, and prevent battery discharge in low or no light conditions. Some solar panels are made with blocking diodes pre-installed that prevent battery discharge during low or no light conditions. In most case where a 6-watt or larger solar panel is installed use of a charger controller is highly recommended. In a nutshell, solar charge controllersact like an on and off switch, allowing power to pass when the battery needs it and cutting it off when the battery is fully charged. Something to be aware of when selecting a controller is that they are typically rated in amps, while photovoltaic panels are typically rated in watts."

 

[Bill Roosa]

Alternator rectofires 101

You boat alternator regulator connects to the boat as follows:
12 volt + to power the unit
12 volt - to ground the unit
Voltage sensing to inform the regulator of the alternator voltage output so it can control it.
Alternator control to supply current to the alternator rotor (which magnetically controls the alternator stator output)
Alternator temp sensor (optional) not connected to the boat systems
Battery temp sensor (optional) not connected to the boat systems
Idiot light to light up the "generator" light on the helm when there is a problem.

It can be affected by the solar panel output in two ways.

The solar panel puts out too high a voltage (but not many amps) the voltage sensing wire then relays this to the regulator and the regulator turns off. This is more a function where everything connects than a problem. For the solar panel to drive the battery voltage (directly connected to the battery) high the bats have to be charged so the regulator would not be turning on then regardless. If on the other hand you connect the solar panel output to the electrical panel (far from the batteries but close to the alternator voltage sensing wire.....) you can get some odd things happening depending on what is or is not turned on and how strongly the sun is shining. A truly favorable environment for gremlins!! Moral is connect all power production devices (and their voltage sensors) as close to the batts as practical.

The fancy smancy Pulse width modulated uber solar panel regulator put out such a wacko voltage output from the solar panel that it interferes with the alternator regulator voltage sensing or its computer chip. This can also effect other equipment with chips in them. Just like having really bad ripple current and not pure DC. Moral is again to connect to the super capacitive batteries to filter out these fluctuations.

 

[njmedic3306]

final note

I was always told not to charge a dead battery using a small motor. Something about how a smaller engine charges puts a strain on the parts. I would had removed the battery and brought it home. I usually have a backup just for that reason then the bilge is never left unattended.

 

[Sethic]

OP update:

Checked the connections on the receptacle and they are insulated: No damage / other appearance of a short.

Checked condition of battery terminal at the contact from the motor: contactor is highly corroded. Brushed the hell out of it till it looked something like copper again and cleaned battery terminal.

I'm going to pull the battery and charge overnight. If that doesn't work then it's a trip to the battery store for me. (I just bought this boat a short while ago - an old battery isn't out of the question. I realize they're dated. Haven't checked that yet).

Sorry it's been awhile before this update. I got busy. And it got COLD! Supposed to be in the 50's this weekend. Might try to get her out on Friday.