neutral helm

[Mystic51]

We recently purchased a Beneteau 331 and have had it out twice in up to 12 knots of wind. We have a neutral helm. I have sailed many boats over the years and I am accustomed to having some weather helm and I understand why it is good to have a slight bit of weather helm. My sails are good and have a nice, not too full not too flat shape. The boat was just moved here from another lake so I suspect that they set the mast up too straight. I am wondering if I should give it a little more rake to give me a some weather helm. This is strange for me for most of my boats have suffered from too much weather helm.

Jeff

 

[Mystic51]

maybe a little weather helm

I understand that having an almost neutral helm is nice but at 10-12 knots of wind I think i should have a little bit. It is not only a matter of safety but what i have read the rudder works with the keel and with a little weather helm it creates lift and helps you move to weather. Besides, I like the feel of a little weather helm. It makes the boat talk to you more. Neutral seemed a little boring.

Jeff

 

[tommays]

SLOW

Draging a rudder through the water at and angle is slow Compared to a well balanced boat


Now if you were getting lee helm that showed sighns of getting worse as the wind speeed increased i would be worried


Tommays

 

[rardiH36]

My 1980 Hunter Can't Be Directly Compared to Your Beneteau 331, but ....

My 36' 1980 Hunter's sailing manners won't be the same as your Beneteau 331's; and I have no idea if my standing rigging is still "in tune"; but in 10kts or so wind, my boat also sails very neutral. Any weather helm is so slight as not to be really noticeable. I've owned a car or two that wouldn't track as straight.

However to echo Patrick's opine, at 15kts or so, a moderate weather helm becomes evident on my boat. And at 25+ knots, I better have reefed the mainsail and maybe have futzed around with how much jib is deployed from the furler, or its a real arm work-out to steer against the weather helm.

I sail central San Francisco Bay where normal wind is 20-30 knots most summer afternoons. So I've had lots of opportunity to experience the wind/reefing/weather helm effect.

 

[Mystic51]

just a little

Yes I understand and have experienced many times the rudder draging because of severe weather helm. It is not fun. I have read though that a little bit of weather helm is desirable and actually makes the boat faster. We think are talking about just a little here. The slight weather helm also gives you fore feel for the boat and helps you detect lifts and headers. A completely neutral heln does not talk to you.

Jeff

 

[rardiH36]

About 8 Degrees Weather Helm?

Jeff:

Several months ago I checked out a book from our local library co-authored by Dennis Conner (of America's Cup success).

As you have posted, I do recall from the book, that yes some weather helm is a actually more hydrodynamically efficient for a healing sailboat than a straight rudder. 8 degrees seems to be the figure that sticks in my mind. But I don't know if 8 degrees pertains to say a sailboat healing at its most efficient angle (say 15-20 degrees) or at all healing angles. Or if its the same for close-haul vs. close-reach vs. beam-reach etc. My guess is that in lighter winds and hence less healing, less than eight degrees weather helm on the rudder becomes more efficient for the boat?

 

[newly anonymous]

12 knots true or apparent?

If you're going to weather in 12 knots true, you should have a small amount of weather helm. If you're showing 12 apparent, you should still be neutral.

 

[tweitz]

I think 8 degrees rudder to counter weather helm sounds like too much for normal use. In addition to the hydrodynamic component (which probably varies from boat to boat, like everything else) slight weather helm is theoretically desirable so that if you fall overboard the boat heads up, rather than sailing on forever. My Beneteau 323 has almost perfectly neutral helm at wind speeds below 15 knots, and exceedingly slight weather helm after that. My practice is to try not to fall overboard. Of course the degree of weather helm will also change when you reef and depends on how the sails are trimmed and even what sources of wind resistance you have (e.g. bimini, dodger or stack pack).

 

[Mystic51]

fixed length forestay

I talked to my local boat yard. they said that the forestay under the roller fuller on most of the late model Beneteaus is a fixed length so mast rake is not very adjustable. He said that on most of these boats that Beneteau sets them up to have a neutral helm in light to moderate winds. I need to get the boat out in winds above 12 knots and see what the helm does.

Jeff

 

[Ralph18414]

If neutral helm bothers you, I would think that you

could adjust it out by raking the mast via adjustments in your turnbuckles. Have you tried that?

 

[Maine Sail]

Weather helm..

means DRAG!!! If you are feeling weather helm it is slowing your boat down! If you are not feeling it you are sailing faster. In under 12 knots it's very easy to balance out weather helm but over that it becomes more tricky. "

I usually trim mains when racing. Unfortunately while doing so I can't feel what's going on with the helm. What may look like a good main shape for the wind to me may not be to the helm. If I have not de-powered in a gust the skipper usually just says "helm" and then I know he's feeling it and I'll adjust the main to alleviate this resistance and increase our speed through the water.

No weather helm is good and you should be very happy you have an easy boat to balance.

 

[RichH]

Set-up for neutral helm.

Your mainsail on a 331 has a 34 ft. luff length.

IF the boat DOES NOT have a roller furling mainsail:
1. Raise the mainsail 'just up' then ADD 3 INCHES of additional halyard strain.
2. go sailing in ~15 kts. of wind, sail precisely on a hard beat ... notice the the 'helm'

IF the boat now has a neutral helm ... the mast rake is OK.
IF the boat now has a lee helm .... rake the mast.
"most" boats have best performance when the rudder is held approximately 3 degrees off the centerline ... as that will help the keel to 'lift' to weather.


(For a Bene 331): The additional 3" of halyard stretch will remove the 'preload' in the luff boltrope (rope in a sleeve at the luff section). A sailmaker will cut the boltrope 3" shorter (1" for every 10-11 ft. of luff length) to support the luff when the sail is at its 'design' wind loading at 15 knots, that missing 3" is called luff 'preload'. The 'preload' when removed by stretching by the halyard will properly position the 'location of maximum draft; When the sail is so 'set', then check the helm for lee helm or weather helm ... and then rake the mast accordingly.

;-)