Does anyone know how I can find out for certain what year my 1977 H-25 was designed? And also have a source for printing confirmation of the "design year"? There are a few races requiring design 60's or earlier and I need to be able to prove year of design to enter the races. Thanks for any information anyone can provide. S/V Ms. Toad's Wild Ride San Francisco Bay, California
- Status
- Not open for further replies.
D
Daniel H. Pitman
Hull designed in 1971-1972? What do you say Don?
Some of the paperwork I have indicates the Hunter 25 was designed by Bob Seidelman and John Cheribini in the Early 1970's. They are both listed as the boats designers, however I feel Cheribini designed the hull and Seidelman the sail plan, deck configuration etc.. At some point in 1972 the first Hunter 25's where sold (as 1973 models). In 1975 Seidelman left Hunter to form his own Company, Seidelman Yachts. Seidelman was more of a racer than Cheribini and after his departure the H25 went from the racing deck to a more traditional/cruising deck. However the Hull Design remained unchanged. Don Bodeman recently wrote an article about the H25 in Good Old Boat Magazine. He has researched the H25 a little more than I have.I hope he sees this post and weighs in! I know your out their Don! To sum things up I believe the hull of your boat was designed in 1971-1972. Hope this helps, Dan Pitman s/v Essayons 1974 H25
Some of the paperwork I have indicates the Hunter 25 was designed by Bob Seidelman and John Cheribini in the Early 1970's. They are both listed as the boats designers, however I feel Cheribini designed the hull and Seidelman the sail plan, deck configuration etc.. At some point in 1972 the first Hunter 25's where sold (as 1973 models). In 1975 Seidelman left Hunter to form his own Company, Seidelman Yachts. Seidelman was more of a racer than Cheribini and after his departure the H25 went from the racing deck to a more traditional/cruising deck. However the Hull Design remained unchanged. Don Bodeman recently wrote an article about the H25 in Good Old Boat Magazine. He has researched the H25 a little more than I have.I hope he sees this post and weighs in! I know your out their Don! To sum things up I believe the hull of your boat was designed in 1971-1972. Hope this helps, Dan Pitman s/v Essayons 1974 H25
J
Joel
How about some of the newer "older" boats?
Does anyone have any info on the H23's build in the late 1980s? I had looked around abit a few years back and even contacted Hunter but came up dry. I have an 1987 H23 with the wing keel and was just interested in its lineage, designers, etc.
Does anyone have any info on the H23's build in the late 1980s? I had looked around abit a few years back and even contacted Hunter but came up dry. I have an 1987 H23 with the wing keel and was just interested in its lineage, designers, etc.
J
John Allison
Right On Dan
Dan, I think your basic grasp of the design history of the 25s is right on. However, it is interesting to note that the 25 year poster put out by Hunter shows the Cherubini Design as existing in 1973 (see photo #40 in Carl Wood's Cherubini Photo Albumn in the Reference Library). To confirm your assessment of the Cherubini's having the more traditional design see photo #42 and the quote at the top of that page by the man himself. This would seem to confirm that the Cherubini designs existed as early as 1973. The Siedelman design is shown in Photo #41 of that same albumn. Based on the above information, it would seem logical that the design is at least a 1973 design and (perhaps earlier). Hopefully John's son who often responds to issues raised in the Cherubini forum will pitch in and help here.
Dan, I think your basic grasp of the design history of the 25s is right on. However, it is interesting to note that the 25 year poster put out by Hunter shows the Cherubini Design as existing in 1973 (see photo #40 in Carl Wood's Cherubini Photo Albumn in the Reference Library). To confirm your assessment of the Cherubini's having the more traditional design see photo #42 and the quote at the top of that page by the man himself. This would seem to confirm that the Cherubini designs existed as early as 1973. The Siedelman design is shown in Photo #41 of that same albumn. Based on the above information, it would seem logical that the design is at least a 1973 design and (perhaps earlier). Hopefully John's son who often responds to issues raised in the Cherubini forum will pitch in and help here.
Design dates
Thank you, Mr Pitman, for being so close to the mark!!! The H-25 was designed over the period of spring-summer 1972 and the boat's first production year was 1973. It was followed quickly by the original (6- or 7-berth) H-30 on which I did a lot of design work and then by the 27 in early 1974. Bob Seidelmann was a Cooper River dinghy racer who apparently knew the Luhrs brothers from the Shrewsbury series (but this is a guess). It is my understanding that he originally got the commission to design John and Warren a sailboat for production and how he got to my father I don't know, as their racing careers are a generation apart (my dad was about 15 years older than Seidelmann). Anyway I recall very vividly the two of them pouring over the drawing board here at Casa Vecchio working out the details because it was my first real experience with sailboat design from conception onwards. I would NOT attribute the rig to one and the hull to the other at all because it was very clearly a collaborative effort, but I would say that my dad provided the design and technical know-how and Bob kept him up-to-date on the racing rules and user demands. I do remember the boat rated 19.2 under the '67-'68 rev of the IOR (NOT a quarter-tonner although it was a marketing goal to get it to 18, which few 25-footers ever did). I confess it was actually me-- at 15-- who devised the idea of having the main-cabin berths with footwells through the bulkehead, but it sure wasn't original. Going through architecture training I was often used as the 'space planner' and relied-upon by my dad to draw up the interior plans, a task he thought was particularly odious and irrelevant to the sail-ability of the boat. Therefore even at that time I was often a key emissary between Hunter marketing and my dad's drawing board. It also netted a pretty good education in rigging hardware and other componentry of the time (which led to my job at Cherubini). We all preferred what we called the original 'blister-cabin' or 'Spitfire-canopy' deck layout of the 25, an idea which came about more for looks than anything-- I recall Bob S and my younger brother talking about how nice it would be to sit on that deck along the rail (what Steve called 'operation lardball'), but I would not say that was as much an intended design feature as it was for appearance (typical of my non-cruising dad). It was actually marketing who insisted upon the redesign to the 'pop-top' version of the H-25, inspired of course by the MacGregors and other similar boats of the day, around 1976 or '77. In fact both versions were built alongside each other for a while. This was an 'improvement' we all resisted, going so far as to offer what we presumed to call the 'Rybovich' customised model of the boat, a stripped-down all-race version with a port-a-potti and ice chest bolted into an otherwise empty, shag-carpeted interior (and an 8-track playing Jeff Beck at the boat shows). But we lost. By about 1978 the fixed-head conventional cabin-trunk version was the only one offered. I have a really nice picture of 'Whisper' on my computer desktop now and I have to admit that even despite Hunter's re-use of contemporary H-27 windows (which were already in the stockroom) it's a pretty nice-looking boat. The only reason I would choose a 'Spitfire-canopy' version over the trunk cabin is for old times' sake (I believe I have recently found our own original 1974 H-25 here in NJ and will hope to re-acquire it, but let's not let the owner on to it). As to Ms Chresteson's query about the design dates, there is NO way anyone in the know will mistake an original H-25 as a pre-1970 boat. Just one look at the fin keel (especially if it is shoal draught) will date the boat to 1972 or later (Gray Mull era). Hope this is either educational or entertaining. JC 2 Cherubini Art
Thank you, Mr Pitman, for being so close to the mark!!! The H-25 was designed over the period of spring-summer 1972 and the boat's first production year was 1973. It was followed quickly by the original (6- or 7-berth) H-30 on which I did a lot of design work and then by the 27 in early 1974. Bob Seidelmann was a Cooper River dinghy racer who apparently knew the Luhrs brothers from the Shrewsbury series (but this is a guess). It is my understanding that he originally got the commission to design John and Warren a sailboat for production and how he got to my father I don't know, as their racing careers are a generation apart (my dad was about 15 years older than Seidelmann). Anyway I recall very vividly the two of them pouring over the drawing board here at Casa Vecchio working out the details because it was my first real experience with sailboat design from conception onwards. I would NOT attribute the rig to one and the hull to the other at all because it was very clearly a collaborative effort, but I would say that my dad provided the design and technical know-how and Bob kept him up-to-date on the racing rules and user demands. I do remember the boat rated 19.2 under the '67-'68 rev of the IOR (NOT a quarter-tonner although it was a marketing goal to get it to 18, which few 25-footers ever did). I confess it was actually me-- at 15-- who devised the idea of having the main-cabin berths with footwells through the bulkehead, but it sure wasn't original. Going through architecture training I was often used as the 'space planner' and relied-upon by my dad to draw up the interior plans, a task he thought was particularly odious and irrelevant to the sail-ability of the boat. Therefore even at that time I was often a key emissary between Hunter marketing and my dad's drawing board. It also netted a pretty good education in rigging hardware and other componentry of the time (which led to my job at Cherubini). We all preferred what we called the original 'blister-cabin' or 'Spitfire-canopy' deck layout of the 25, an idea which came about more for looks than anything-- I recall Bob S and my younger brother talking about how nice it would be to sit on that deck along the rail (what Steve called 'operation lardball'), but I would not say that was as much an intended design feature as it was for appearance (typical of my non-cruising dad). It was actually marketing who insisted upon the redesign to the 'pop-top' version of the H-25, inspired of course by the MacGregors and other similar boats of the day, around 1976 or '77. In fact both versions were built alongside each other for a while. This was an 'improvement' we all resisted, going so far as to offer what we presumed to call the 'Rybovich' customised model of the boat, a stripped-down all-race version with a port-a-potti and ice chest bolted into an otherwise empty, shag-carpeted interior (and an 8-track playing Jeff Beck at the boat shows). But we lost. By about 1978 the fixed-head conventional cabin-trunk version was the only one offered. I have a really nice picture of 'Whisper' on my computer desktop now and I have to admit that even despite Hunter's re-use of contemporary H-27 windows (which were already in the stockroom) it's a pretty nice-looking boat. The only reason I would choose a 'Spitfire-canopy' version over the trunk cabin is for old times' sake (I believe I have recently found our own original 1974 H-25 here in NJ and will hope to re-acquire it, but let's not let the owner on to it). As to Ms Chresteson's query about the design dates, there is NO way anyone in the know will mistake an original H-25 as a pre-1970 boat. Just one look at the fin keel (especially if it is shoal draught) will date the boat to 1972 or later (Gray Mull era). Hope this is either educational or entertaining. JC 2 Cherubini Art
J
John Allison
Thank You John
I was the one who suggested you would be the source of info on this subject. I am also the owner of "Whisper" and want to say a special thank you for having it on your PC.
I was the one who suggested you would be the source of info on this subject. I am also the owner of "Whisper" and want to say a special thank you for having it on your PC.
J
JC 2
John's picture of Whisper
John, that picture of Whisper sailing on Lake Michigan on that grey evening is gorgeous. Enter it into one of those photo contests (or get the kids to). It also gives me a renewed appreciation of how good looking the trunk-cabin variant of that boat really is. Even when he was designing something he'd rather not (and I hate to say it but most of the Hunter line was never his cup of tea) the old man had style. A designer of his ilk does not pass our way but once. JC 2 JComet@aol.com
John, that picture of Whisper sailing on Lake Michigan on that grey evening is gorgeous. Enter it into one of those photo contests (or get the kids to). It also gives me a renewed appreciation of how good looking the trunk-cabin variant of that boat really is. Even when he was designing something he'd rather not (and I hate to say it but most of the Hunter line was never his cup of tea) the old man had style. A designer of his ilk does not pass our way but once. JC 2 JComet@aol.com
- Status
- Not open for further replies.