My battery switch is 1,2,Both and Off. What is the proper wiring hookup for a starting battery, and house batteries? Currently it has the house bank go to "Both". The orange lead to electrical panel is connected to "2", and the red going to the starter also to "2". "1" has the starter battery connected to it, and also a direct feed to the bilge pump, so it is always on. Anyone know where I can view a wiring diagram for this switch? Thanks for your assistance & Merry Christmas!! Pete H280 Eastern Sky Please feel free to email a sketch to: H280easternsky@cs.com
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Try this
Pete, it was just a year ago that I rewired my house and starter battery connections from scratch. I toyed with a number of configurations on paper before settling on one I'm happy with. The best single source I can recommend is West Marine's advisory in their catalog, though there are a number of others. I believe that if you think through the alternative designs (that makes it sound more complicated than it really is), you'll know your final solution better than if you just use a cookie-cutter solution. IMHO Happy Holidays! ..._/) Bill
Pete, it was just a year ago that I rewired my house and starter battery connections from scratch. I toyed with a number of configurations on paper before settling on one I'm happy with. The best single source I can recommend is West Marine's advisory in their catalog, though there are a number of others. I believe that if you think through the alternative designs (that makes it sound more complicated than it really is), you'll know your final solution better than if you just use a cookie-cutter solution. IMHO Happy Holidays! ..._/) Bill
Wiring & Battery Sources
Pete In addition to Bill's suggestion, try the link to Ample Power, great wiring plus information on batteries and electrical systems. Read the Power Primer. Stu
Pete In addition to Bill's suggestion, try the link to Ample Power, great wiring plus information on batteries and electrical systems. Read the Power Primer. Stu
A working older idea
After reading through the material from West Marine, I decided to use the existing 1,2, Both, & Off switch and add an isolation box. I found it simpler for a two battery system. The wiring is direct and easy. First the positive charging wire from the alternator is connected directly to the isolator then from the isolator to each battery. The alternator is always connected to the batteries through the isolator and therefore can not be harmed. Second the positive battery wires are connected to the 1,2, Both switch. With the switch the "2" battery is used to start the engine. After starting the switch is turned to "1" the house battery for general electrical use. During sailing if the engine needs to be restarted, (this is always easier with a warm engine) the "1" battery is left on and used. This wiring system has worked very well. The only real danger with this system is leaving the switch on "Both" which can discharge both batteries. I just never use "Both" saving it for when the "2" battery is not strong enough to start the engine. Again for just two batteries I found this to be the simplest working approch.
After reading through the material from West Marine, I decided to use the existing 1,2, Both, & Off switch and add an isolation box. I found it simpler for a two battery system. The wiring is direct and easy. First the positive charging wire from the alternator is connected directly to the isolator then from the isolator to each battery. The alternator is always connected to the batteries through the isolator and therefore can not be harmed. Second the positive battery wires are connected to the 1,2, Both switch. With the switch the "2" battery is used to start the engine. After starting the switch is turned to "1" the house battery for general electrical use. During sailing if the engine needs to be restarted, (this is always easier with a warm engine) the "1" battery is left on and used. This wiring system has worked very well. The only real danger with this system is leaving the switch on "Both" which can discharge both batteries. I just never use "Both" saving it for when the "2" battery is not strong enough to start the engine. Again for just two batteries I found this to be the simplest working approch.
Isolators?!? *!
Paul Older is not necessarily better. Using Isolators can kill your batteries because they drain from 0.6 to 1.0 volts from the charging source. Therefore, your batteries are NOT receiving the full voltage from either your alternator or your charger. I agree that West Marine's two switch layout is absolutely unnecessary. All you have to do is remember to use the switch. Start on your start battery and as soon as the engine is OFF, switch to your house bank and leave it there until you restart your engine. I recommend that you remove your damaging isolators, and consider a relay or a combiner. Stu
Paul Older is not necessarily better. Using Isolators can kill your batteries because they drain from 0.6 to 1.0 volts from the charging source. Therefore, your batteries are NOT receiving the full voltage from either your alternator or your charger. I agree that West Marine's two switch layout is absolutely unnecessary. All you have to do is remember to use the switch. Start on your start battery and as soon as the engine is OFF, switch to your house bank and leave it there until you restart your engine. I recommend that you remove your damaging isolators, and consider a relay or a combiner. Stu
Agree with Stu.
Everyone, including the W/M diagrams, is trying to make it "seem" idiot proof. Easiest: Red pos. #1 goes to starter battery. Red pos. #2 goes to one of the house batteries. All grounds are in parallel to the engine. The primary battery-switch red wire goes to the starter post. This is the same post that the alternator and 12V wire to the panel attach. All done(except for combiner). When I get on the boat I switch from OFF to #2. NEVER to #1 or to BOTH. The engine will start just fine on the house batteries. Switch #1 is ONLY for the unlikely event that the house batteries are dead. But just in case I use a combiner. Once the house batteries are charged(alternator, shorepower, solar, whatever) the starter battery will get topped off. Simple.
Everyone, including the W/M diagrams, is trying to make it "seem" idiot proof. Easiest: Red pos. #1 goes to starter battery. Red pos. #2 goes to one of the house batteries. All grounds are in parallel to the engine. The primary battery-switch red wire goes to the starter post. This is the same post that the alternator and 12V wire to the panel attach. All done(except for combiner). When I get on the boat I switch from OFF to #2. NEVER to #1 or to BOTH. The engine will start just fine on the house batteries. Switch #1 is ONLY for the unlikely event that the house batteries are dead. But just in case I use a combiner. Once the house batteries are charged(alternator, shorepower, solar, whatever) the starter battery will get topped off. Simple.
understand
Thanks, Stu. I understand what you are saying and top off the charge, by-passing the isolator, when in the slip. But I have found that the batteries require very little charge and are normally near or at a full charge after the engine has been running. In you example how is the house battery charged? If you have a combiner I understand how it works. Thanks again.
Thanks, Stu. I understand what you are saying and top off the charge, by-passing the isolator, when in the slip. But I have found that the batteries require very little charge and are normally near or at a full charge after the engine has been running. In you example how is the house battery charged? If you have a combiner I understand how it works. Thanks again.
Combiner
Paul, Yes, we have a combiner. The alternator is wired to the house bank {with an old AutoMac external regulator that still works just fine - it's merely a manual external regulator that I use since I did my homework and learned about batteries and charging before I used the boat a lot}. This is done with the original wiring that ran to the 1-2-B switch. I immediately got rid of the PO's isolator when we bought the boat in '98, since the alternator output had been wired to the B post. I moved the alternator output to the 2 {house} post, and installed the combiner. The charger is a Heart I/C 1500 / 75 amp smart charger, the older version that had its big DC wires already installed, and without an echo charger. So, only one output from the charger, and one output from the stock 55 amp Motorola alternator, both to the house positivie distribution post with a combiner for the starting bank (#1). I agree with Ed, and usually start on the house bank. Sometimes just for kicks I start with the #1 to make sure its working fine. I have a Dymo label on the diesel engine kill switch that says "2" which reminds me to switch back to the hosue bank if I started with #1. Works great, simple, no extra wiring or switches. With this arrangement, an echo charge would've been better, since it woudl limit power going into an already full start bank. Check the link for more discussions. The C34 Message Board has had a lot of electrical discussions recently, so do a search (find) on C34 electrical systems, a lot of information not worth copying or repeating. The C36 site also has some good info. Paul, even if you use the isolator to "top off" already full batteries, you're hurting your batteries by only charging them with low voltage, regardless of the amperage going in. Why output volts and then kill them for nothing for ANY reason? Of course, the amplepower.com website has THE story on batteries and charging. Stu PS Can anyone can help on the fugawi request? thanks
Paul, Yes, we have a combiner. The alternator is wired to the house bank {with an old AutoMac external regulator that still works just fine - it's merely a manual external regulator that I use since I did my homework and learned about batteries and charging before I used the boat a lot}. This is done with the original wiring that ran to the 1-2-B switch. I immediately got rid of the PO's isolator when we bought the boat in '98, since the alternator output had been wired to the B post. I moved the alternator output to the 2 {house} post, and installed the combiner. The charger is a Heart I/C 1500 / 75 amp smart charger, the older version that had its big DC wires already installed, and without an echo charger. So, only one output from the charger, and one output from the stock 55 amp Motorola alternator, both to the house positivie distribution post with a combiner for the starting bank (#1). I agree with Ed, and usually start on the house bank. Sometimes just for kicks I start with the #1 to make sure its working fine. I have a Dymo label on the diesel engine kill switch that says "2" which reminds me to switch back to the hosue bank if I started with #1. Works great, simple, no extra wiring or switches. With this arrangement, an echo charge would've been better, since it woudl limit power going into an already full start bank. Check the link for more discussions. The C34 Message Board has had a lot of electrical discussions recently, so do a search (find) on C34 electrical systems, a lot of information not worth copying or repeating. The C36 site also has some good info. Paul, even if you use the isolator to "top off" already full batteries, you're hurting your batteries by only charging them with low voltage, regardless of the amperage going in. Why output volts and then kill them for nothing for ANY reason? Of course, the amplepower.com website has THE story on batteries and charging. Stu PS Can anyone can help on the fugawi request? thanks
I've done most everything Ample Power recommends
Years ago I walked off with one of their 'do everything' manuals at the Seattle Boat Show. The manual was an inch thick. It was handout material. Couldn't believe they were giving them out for free. Well, it seems they are still the same GOOD PEOPLE. I went with everything they recommend except the engine start battery. We use one bank. It is so simple that we never turn a switch or have to monitor anything except the volts. I have tried the two switch system, the three bank system, then the two. Then we did the AutoMac. Then we just ran with an internal stock automotive regulator. It worked great because we run the engine twice a day because of the watermaker and refer. That got me to thinking. Why did I need all of this stuff. (I had a isolator but never installed it because of the voltage drop Stu) The alternator was safe from damage because the voltage sense wire is connected to its' output post. Beside a GOOD DC shop is located near my home town so I can buy a rectifier for pennies. (That's what blows if you shut off the alternator wrong.) (I've never done that) SOOOO, I wired one bank of golf carts. The selector switch is wired BACKWARDS. 1. sends power to the distribution panel from the golfcarts. 2. sends power to the engine. I leave it in both. The switch is under the cart table and out of the way. Charging is done by a Balmar external regulator while on the hook. In port, a Prosine 2.0 inverter does the rest. It's charger is 100 amps, and digital. All there is to do is keep water in the batteries.
Years ago I walked off with one of their 'do everything' manuals at the Seattle Boat Show. The manual was an inch thick. It was handout material. Couldn't believe they were giving them out for free. Well, it seems they are still the same GOOD PEOPLE. I went with everything they recommend except the engine start battery. We use one bank. It is so simple that we never turn a switch or have to monitor anything except the volts. I have tried the two switch system, the three bank system, then the two. Then we did the AutoMac. Then we just ran with an internal stock automotive regulator. It worked great because we run the engine twice a day because of the watermaker and refer. That got me to thinking. Why did I need all of this stuff. (I had a isolator but never installed it because of the voltage drop Stu) The alternator was safe from damage because the voltage sense wire is connected to its' output post. Beside a GOOD DC shop is located near my home town so I can buy a rectifier for pennies. (That's what blows if you shut off the alternator wrong.) (I've never done that) SOOOO, I wired one bank of golf carts. The selector switch is wired BACKWARDS. 1. sends power to the distribution panel from the golfcarts. 2. sends power to the engine. I leave it in both. The switch is under the cart table and out of the way. Charging is done by a Balmar external regulator while on the hook. In port, a Prosine 2.0 inverter does the rest. It's charger is 100 amps, and digital. All there is to do is keep water in the batteries.
battery switching
Pete; IMHO, many of these responses are wide of the mark in that they require too much user interface and leave themselves open to failed battery problems when the house bank is too far down to start the engine. If I had to run my engine twice(!!) a day to power the reefer, I'd use ice in a foam cooler. I hate that diesel exhaust stink. I have a 430 A/H house bank and a dedicated engine start battery, linked with a combiner that requires no switches to be thrown. When the house bank is down from use, the engine will still start from its own battery, without having to remember to close or open any switches. My Beneteau has the three-switch set-up, GROUND-ENGINE-HOUSE. I installed a Link 2000R system to manage the alternator and the Freedom 2000 inverter/charger. On the hook I use a Honda 2000 generator way up on the bow where I can't hear or smell it. It charges the house batts and heats water and I run it once a day for about an hour.
Pete; IMHO, many of these responses are wide of the mark in that they require too much user interface and leave themselves open to failed battery problems when the house bank is too far down to start the engine. If I had to run my engine twice(!!) a day to power the reefer, I'd use ice in a foam cooler. I hate that diesel exhaust stink. I have a 430 A/H house bank and a dedicated engine start battery, linked with a combiner that requires no switches to be thrown. When the house bank is down from use, the engine will still start from its own battery, without having to remember to close or open any switches. My Beneteau has the three-switch set-up, GROUND-ENGINE-HOUSE. I installed a Link 2000R system to manage the alternator and the Freedom 2000 inverter/charger. On the hook I use a Honda 2000 generator way up on the bow where I can't hear or smell it. It charges the house batts and heats water and I run it once a day for about an hour.
Seperate battery for radios?
While I agree with the above posters that there are a number of ways to handle primary battery wiring and switching, depending on many factors, one thing I haven't seen much on is the use of a seperate (small) battery dedicated strictly to the communications radio(s). The thought behind this is quite simple, a small AGM battery mounted high in the cabin that is charged through a combiner that provides power to the VHF and/or SSB in case of failure of the main batteries due to electrical fire, swapping, etc. This way you have redundancy to (arguably) the most important electrical item on the boat in case of emergency. What do you guys think of this idea? Have you heard of anyone else doing it? Let me know what you think. Thanks, Jeff
While I agree with the above posters that there are a number of ways to handle primary battery wiring and switching, depending on many factors, one thing I haven't seen much on is the use of a seperate (small) battery dedicated strictly to the communications radio(s). The thought behind this is quite simple, a small AGM battery mounted high in the cabin that is charged through a combiner that provides power to the VHF and/or SSB in case of failure of the main batteries due to electrical fire, swapping, etc. This way you have redundancy to (arguably) the most important electrical item on the boat in case of emergency. What do you guys think of this idea? Have you heard of anyone else doing it? Let me know what you think. Thanks, Jeff
Larry W, I've studied your post and I have some
questions. You must be referring to my post about running the engine twice a day. I don't understand what you are referring to about ice in a foam cooler. You must have missed the part about us also making fresh water and charging our batteries at the same time. We will never give that up. Your hatred of diesel fumes is understandable but no one ever died from diesel fumes. Ask Peggie. When you do, ask her how dangerous a gasoline generator is when you run it at deck level, especially on the bow, directly to windward at anchor. Your right about not being able to smell it. That's the problem. Very deadly! And what do you mean when you talk about your three switch setup? Is your ground really on your switch? Nah, that's not possible. Oh, it's pretty hard to kill a 430 AH bank (ours too) while running the engine twice a day. Even if some freaky event happened, (and it hasn't in 18 years) we could just release the compression levers (Yanmar calls them 'low battery, start levers') and spin up the engine with the starter and then close one of them, followed by the rest. Larry, try it, it works.
questions. You must be referring to my post about running the engine twice a day. I don't understand what you are referring to about ice in a foam cooler. You must have missed the part about us also making fresh water and charging our batteries at the same time. We will never give that up. Your hatred of diesel fumes is understandable but no one ever died from diesel fumes. Ask Peggie. When you do, ask her how dangerous a gasoline generator is when you run it at deck level, especially on the bow, directly to windward at anchor. Your right about not being able to smell it. That's the problem. Very deadly! And what do you mean when you talk about your three switch setup? Is your ground really on your switch? Nah, that's not possible. Oh, it's pretty hard to kill a 430 AH bank (ours too) while running the engine twice a day. Even if some freaky event happened, (and it hasn't in 18 years) we could just release the compression levers (Yanmar calls them 'low battery, start levers') and spin up the engine with the starter and then close one of them, followed by the rest. Larry, try it, it works.
More Electrical
Fred and Larry and others, If you read my related link from an earlier post, I think you'll find me saying that there is NO ONE right answer. Each of us has different needs and operational preferences. Whether it be a smaller bank with one switch left in the same position and running the engine, or larger banks with multiple switches, to everything in between, as long as it works for the type of cruising you do, and how you feel comfortable working the electrical system on your boat, it's fine. As to separate batteries for electronics, that, too, is a choice you have to make. Having a dedicated battery for anything, compared to one large house bank that is kept in tip top condition is also a tradeoff, and, as I've said many times: your boat, your choice. The other part of that discussion is how dependent your are on electronics, and you do have paper charts, and a compass, right? {No need to start another discussion on THAT one here *box} Stu
Fred and Larry and others, If you read my related link from an earlier post, I think you'll find me saying that there is NO ONE right answer. Each of us has different needs and operational preferences. Whether it be a smaller bank with one switch left in the same position and running the engine, or larger banks with multiple switches, to everything in between, as long as it works for the type of cruising you do, and how you feel comfortable working the electrical system on your boat, it's fine. As to separate batteries for electronics, that, too, is a choice you have to make. Having a dedicated battery for anything, compared to one large house bank that is kept in tip top condition is also a tradeoff, and, as I've said many times: your boat, your choice. The other part of that discussion is how dependent your are on electronics, and you do have paper charts, and a compass, right? {No need to start another discussion on THAT one here *box} Stu
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