Last weekend I broke a lower shroud at the bottom swage. The local rigger said (without looking at it) that I should replace all of the standing rigging because I don't know how old it is and the other 7 stays may be near failure. 1 Since there are no obvious connections where the mast meets the cabin, how do I drop it to remove the rigging? 2 How do you feel about this? Is he trying to increase his business at my expense or is he really trying to prevent me from losing my mast from another failure? 3 I don't see any problems with the other rigging (but I didn't see any problem with this one either). Would I be safe replacing the shrouds in pairs each payday? 4 Can I replace the for & aft stays and the upper shrouds one-at-a-time without stepping the mast? Thanks for your help. I hope to have her back on the water for Memorial Day (I'm taking 1 1/2 weeks vacation after graduation on 5/11). Jim Cook "Dream Chaser"
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JT
standing rigging
I had my standing rigging (OD23) inspected last Fall and, like your rigger, mine suggested it all be replaced at the same time. Entire job, including installation, was only $700. JT
I had my standing rigging (OD23) inspected last Fall and, like your rigger, mine suggested it all be replaced at the same time. Entire job, including installation, was only $700. JT
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red coles
DIY shrouds
Hello Jim: Answer to question #4, is yes. Did it myself on previous boat, also increased wire size, from 3'16" to 1/4". I used two halyards to keep mast up while I did this. For example jib and spinnacker halyard to replace backstay. You might want to get an estimate, from rigger, for complete job, and then figure out what having new rigging made up will be ( west marine catalogue, etc.) and compare differences. See if it's worth DIY. Good luck red
Hello Jim: Answer to question #4, is yes. Did it myself on previous boat, also increased wire size, from 3'16" to 1/4". I used two halyards to keep mast up while I did this. For example jib and spinnacker halyard to replace backstay. You might want to get an estimate, from rigger, for complete job, and then figure out what having new rigging made up will be ( west marine catalogue, etc.) and compare differences. See if it's worth DIY. Good luck red
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Mike Turner
Replace it All
The answer to your big question is: yes, replace all the standing rigging. Unless your rigging is new and there was an obvious flaw in the shroud that broke, failure of one part of the rigging means two things: first, that additional failures due to age/wear (including crevice corrosion, which most likely caused this failure -- failure of shrouds at the lower swage fitting is probably the most common cause of dismasting) is probably in the cards; and second, that undue stress may have been placed on the remaining stays/shrouds when this one broke, again meaning that failure of additional parts of the rig could be imminent. You can likely do the replacement yourself -- other O'day owners can give you pointers on dropping the mast (I have a Catalina) -- and the cost will be minimal compared to the cost of repairing damage from a dismasting, to say nothing of the potential for serious injury in a catastrophic rig failure. Good luck! Mike Turner S/V Amity
The answer to your big question is: yes, replace all the standing rigging. Unless your rigging is new and there was an obvious flaw in the shroud that broke, failure of one part of the rigging means two things: first, that additional failures due to age/wear (including crevice corrosion, which most likely caused this failure -- failure of shrouds at the lower swage fitting is probably the most common cause of dismasting) is probably in the cards; and second, that undue stress may have been placed on the remaining stays/shrouds when this one broke, again meaning that failure of additional parts of the rig could be imminent. You can likely do the replacement yourself -- other O'day owners can give you pointers on dropping the mast (I have a Catalina) -- and the cost will be minimal compared to the cost of repairing damage from a dismasting, to say nothing of the potential for serious injury in a catastrophic rig failure. Good luck! Mike Turner S/V Amity
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Justin - O'day Owners' Web
Do it!
Jim - Just do it. Like the others have said: you don't know how old the rig it, if this one failed, the others have had similar lives so they may be nearing failure, and the cost of new rigging is a lot less than the cost of a new mast and associated cabin top damage. For me, though, its simpler than that. There is no issue for me between a couple of hundred bucks for a new rig and potentially killing someone when the thing falls down. I rerigged my boat last spring. Total cost was sub $500. I send my rigging to the West Marine riggin shop, they turned it around in a couple of days and fedexed it back to me. It is possible to change on the wires one by one with the rig up, but you couldn't pay me to do it. Good luck. You'll have a lot more fun aboard knowing that you're not about to lose your mast. Justin - O'day Owners' Web
Jim - Just do it. Like the others have said: you don't know how old the rig it, if this one failed, the others have had similar lives so they may be nearing failure, and the cost of new rigging is a lot less than the cost of a new mast and associated cabin top damage. For me, though, its simpler than that. There is no issue for me between a couple of hundred bucks for a new rig and potentially killing someone when the thing falls down. I rerigged my boat last spring. Total cost was sub $500. I send my rigging to the West Marine riggin shop, they turned it around in a couple of days and fedexed it back to me. It is possible to change on the wires one by one with the rig up, but you couldn't pay me to do it. Good luck. You'll have a lot more fun aboard knowing that you're not about to lose your mast. Justin - O'day Owners' Web
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Don Evans
Have the Marina Drop Her
I'm happy to hear your deciding to replace it all. Unless you have the hinged tabernacle that some OD27 owners have had made and installed I would ask the marina to do it. They should have experience in this before I'd let them touch mine. Your mast weighs in at about 90 lbs, which is a lot at 35' high. Have the rigger replace the lines with it down then have the marina restep it. I would also pay to have the rigger come back for an initial tune-up, and from there I'd learn to do it myself. Buy a Loos rig guage and a booklet with conversion #'s and tune it like a pro. This is the best upgrade you will do to your boat IMHO. Good luck. Don
I'm happy to hear your deciding to replace it all. Unless you have the hinged tabernacle that some OD27 owners have had made and installed I would ask the marina to do it. They should have experience in this before I'd let them touch mine. Your mast weighs in at about 90 lbs, which is a lot at 35' high. Have the rigger replace the lines with it down then have the marina restep it. I would also pay to have the rigger come back for an initial tune-up, and from there I'd learn to do it myself. Buy a Loos rig guage and a booklet with conversion #'s and tune it like a pro. This is the best upgrade you will do to your boat IMHO. Good luck. Don
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Dave
Norseman Fittings
You seemed concerned about the cost of replacing all your standing rigging which I agree can be expensive. You should investigate using norseman fittings. This way you can do the work yourself, save the good wire (it is probably stress corrosion eating away inside the swaged fitting) which I make the assumption still has adequate strength where it is not corroded at the fitting, and you can put fittings on both ends allowing you to swap ends each year for even wear and tear. I have never used them but all the literature says they are as strong as the wire. Now the question is will they be cheaper than new rigging? By the Way I replaced my two upper shrouds on my O'35 this spring and I had Hall Rigging in Bristol Rhode Island do the work. They made them while I waited and the price was excellent. The Isomat spars use special stemball fittings I couldn't find at most rigging shops locally or at the catalog guys. Good luck dave
You seemed concerned about the cost of replacing all your standing rigging which I agree can be expensive. You should investigate using norseman fittings. This way you can do the work yourself, save the good wire (it is probably stress corrosion eating away inside the swaged fitting) which I make the assumption still has adequate strength where it is not corroded at the fitting, and you can put fittings on both ends allowing you to swap ends each year for even wear and tear. I have never used them but all the literature says they are as strong as the wire. Now the question is will they be cheaper than new rigging? By the Way I replaced my two upper shrouds on my O'35 this spring and I had Hall Rigging in Bristol Rhode Island do the work. They made them while I waited and the price was excellent. The Isomat spars use special stemball fittings I couldn't find at most rigging shops locally or at the catalog guys. Good luck dave
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Dave
Loos Rigging Gage
I have a loos gage and using the recommended tension for the wire rigging it almost scares me to tighten it this much. I cheat on the lower end of the recommendation for initial tuning. What are other's experiences with these units. They are great for getting the rig uniformally tensioned and to control the lowers versus the uppers, I just get concerned by the magnitude of the loads not on the wire but on the boat itself. Any comments?
I have a loos gage and using the recommended tension for the wire rigging it almost scares me to tighten it this much. I cheat on the lower end of the recommendation for initial tuning. What are other's experiences with these units. They are great for getting the rig uniformally tensioned and to control the lowers versus the uppers, I just get concerned by the magnitude of the loads not on the wire but on the boat itself. Any comments?
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Jim Cook
What are your opinions about vinyl coated rigging?
Dave, If I get fittings and DIY: 1 What are the standards for the wire? 2 Has anyone used vinyl coated wire (like from the Home Depot store)? 3 Is it OK to use a larger diameter wire? (I like Red's idea.) Are there any reasons not to go bigger? Thanks, Jim C / "Dream Chaser"
Dave, If I get fittings and DIY: 1 What are the standards for the wire? 2 Has anyone used vinyl coated wire (like from the Home Depot store)? 3 Is it OK to use a larger diameter wire? (I like Red's idea.) Are there any reasons not to go bigger? Thanks, Jim C / "Dream Chaser"
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Dave
vinyl coated standing rigging?
Do not under any circumstances other than your life is at stake use vinyl coated wire from home depot for your standing rigging. I assume your mast has fallen down and you are jury rigging a way to get home while abandoned with no communication link to society and help about 3000 miles from any point of land. In all seriousness, standing rigging is made of 1x19 cable which is very stiff (hard to bend) while the cable you refer to is most likely 7x19 and is very flexible and weaker. The home depot version will not be of an adequate stainless grade for a marine environment. You need both high strength and extreme corrosion resistance. My proposal to you was to cut off all the swaged fittings and add norseman fittings to what is likely cable with reasonable strength remaining. It would be very unusual to see a cable fail other than where the swage fittings are. I had a 25 Catalina and I had a lower shroud fail once. It was like a rifle shot going off. It turns out the deck fitting ("CHAINPLATE")was corroding at the root of the threads and when it got to a minimum area and was placed under a load it snapped. Catalinas replacement part was a much larger diameter indicating a sub par initial design. I don't know what size your wire is but a 1/4 inch norseman is 27 bucks in the west catalog.
Do not under any circumstances other than your life is at stake use vinyl coated wire from home depot for your standing rigging. I assume your mast has fallen down and you are jury rigging a way to get home while abandoned with no communication link to society and help about 3000 miles from any point of land. In all seriousness, standing rigging is made of 1x19 cable which is very stiff (hard to bend) while the cable you refer to is most likely 7x19 and is very flexible and weaker. The home depot version will not be of an adequate stainless grade for a marine environment. You need both high strength and extreme corrosion resistance. My proposal to you was to cut off all the swaged fittings and add norseman fittings to what is likely cable with reasonable strength remaining. It would be very unusual to see a cable fail other than where the swage fittings are. I had a 25 Catalina and I had a lower shroud fail once. It was like a rifle shot going off. It turns out the deck fitting ("CHAINPLATE")was corroding at the root of the threads and when it got to a minimum area and was placed under a load it snapped. Catalinas replacement part was a much larger diameter indicating a sub par initial design. I don't know what size your wire is but a 1/4 inch norseman is 27 bucks in the west catalog.
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Dave
larger wire
yes it is ok to use larger diameter wire but you don't need to. The boat is designed with a factor of safety in accordance with CFR's published by the government (code of federal regulations that defines certain construction criteria for boats). I doubt you will ever load the wire to the breaking point but the fittings are the weak link in any connection as corrosion and wear are at work. The bad aspect of heavier wire is weight. Consider the center of gravity of the added weight is half way up the mast. Now when the boat heels over that extra weight is increasing your heeling moment and reducing your efficiency which is best with the boat upright. I don't recommend this change as the detrimental efects of the weight will offset your peace of mind for added strength. dave
yes it is ok to use larger diameter wire but you don't need to. The boat is designed with a factor of safety in accordance with CFR's published by the government (code of federal regulations that defines certain construction criteria for boats). I doubt you will ever load the wire to the breaking point but the fittings are the weak link in any connection as corrosion and wear are at work. The bad aspect of heavier wire is weight. Consider the center of gravity of the added weight is half way up the mast. Now when the boat heels over that extra weight is increasing your heeling moment and reducing your efficiency which is best with the boat upright. I don't recommend this change as the detrimental efects of the weight will offset your peace of mind for added strength. dave
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Jim Cook
Thanks EVERYONE!!!!
Wow! This has been very informative for me. Thanks! I'm still in college and I can't afford to replace all rigging at once, so I'll replace shrouds in pairs every payday as a DIY project. I'll have the new rigging swaged professionally for my peace of mind. My broken shroud (actually only half of the strands broke, the rest are still holding on) was the aft lower shroud on the starboard side so...... Should the first pair be both aft lower shrouds or both lower shrouds on the starboard side? If my old one had broken totally, I'ld be more concerned about stressing the other starboard shrouds. Since it didn't, I could put a new one on each side and be more confident that each side had a new support. So... what do you think??? Thanks, Jim C
Wow! This has been very informative for me. Thanks! I'm still in college and I can't afford to replace all rigging at once, so I'll replace shrouds in pairs every payday as a DIY project. I'll have the new rigging swaged professionally for my peace of mind. My broken shroud (actually only half of the strands broke, the rest are still holding on) was the aft lower shroud on the starboard side so...... Should the first pair be both aft lower shrouds or both lower shrouds on the starboard side? If my old one had broken totally, I'ld be more concerned about stressing the other starboard shrouds. Since it didn't, I could put a new one on each side and be more confident that each side had a new support. So... what do you think??? Thanks, Jim C
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