Nav Station Chartplotter vs Handheld GPS

[Ducati]

A Raymarine C90 "widescreen" chartplotter is alot of money. If we decide to buy the unit it will be mounted down below at the nav station. I considered placing it at the helm however I really hate the look of all the clutter in front of the wheel.

Question?
If your chartplotter is located down below do you find it difficult to be running up and down to navigate while you sail? I was also just considering the purchase of one of those handheld GPS with maps devices. They are 10% the cost of a C90.

Thanks

 

[jsalley]

Depends on how you sail. If you singlehand a lot, I'd unquestionably mount it at the helm regardless of how it looks. Same if you eventually plan to add radar or AIS. I find myself relying on the chartplotter most when I'm in tight quarters and need to refer to it frequently, so having it below would decrease its effectiveness as a navigational tool. It does, however, simplify the installation.

 

[Buck420]

I agree w/ John.
If you don't, I think you will wish you had, installed the chartplotter at the helm (or at least in the cockpit).
Also, a C-90 is NOT your only choice.
One option would be a laptop at your nav station loaded w/ one of the free
(or low cost) software packages and (free) NOAA charts. Then a video out cable to a small (detachable) flat screen at your helm. Or some variation there-of.
This type of arrangement is a fraction of the cost of a C-90 and related installation, and IMHO can give you lots more options and flexibility.
I personally have an inexpensive Dell desktop at my nav-station (running an older version of Nobeltec Vis Navigator software) and I split video out to a flatscreen (which doubles as a TV so that I can watch free news/weather, etc, when i want) in the cockpit. I can remove the cockpit flatscreen when not needed to reduce clutter.
And, the computer down below can also be used to keep your log, etc. etc.
(You could also use your inexpensive handheld GPS to imput your Laptop chartplotter software).

 

[Roger Long]

This does it for me:

I can see it well enough standing behind the wheel to follow a track, keep myself in the center of a channel, or spot pop up radar targets. When things are more intense, such as dealing with traffic in fog, I can let the autopilot steer and sit right at the unit in the front of the cockpit with the autopilot remote. I can still be back at the wheel and disengage the autopilot in about two seconds.

I also have a handheld chartplotter mounted on at the helm low down where it's out of the way. Not only does this give me back up but I often have it zoomed in to the max and the companionway plotter zoomed out for the big picture. The large plotter may also be dedicated to radar with the handheld handling navigation. A chartbook is on the seat for further backup and the big picture.

Here is the helm mount for the handheld:

 

[Bill1565]

Unless you are a fully crewed race boat, I think the helm is the best place for your nav tool. It will be a real pain to set the A/P, go below, look at the screen and return.

 

[Buck420]

Ditto Rodger, ...
I, too, have the same Garmin 76 at my helm as backup/etc to the previously mentioned flatscreen .... (which actually sits next to the companway in front of the cockpit setee).
Basically the same set-up as your's except using a flatscreen instead of a dedicated chartplotter.

 

[Tim R.]

Don't forget that having a chartplotter at the helm will also give you a nice convenient MOB button. Something you don't get from a laptop and some handhelds.

My Garmin 3206 is mounted at the helm and can rotate to either side for when I want to get down on the leeward side to drive and see the sail trim. I have a serial cable routed to the nav station that allows me to connect my laptop so I can do route planning from there.

 

[seadaddler]

Many Choices

So many ways to go and I would never spend for the cost of a real GPS/Charlplotter/Radar/AIS and keep it down below,it would be a real waste for sure it would need to be at the helm just where my
C-80/GPS/Chartplotter/radar is so much more useful.
I just got a Gateway mini that has a 9 hour battery for Xmas that I will be setting up for the navstation it was on sale $229.00,also have 76CX for Kayaking and use on my sailboat as back up also,will post photo C-80 at the helm and I love it there not really in the way at all on my H-36 great while sailing to see every thing going on.
Nick

 

[sailaway78]

Consider this

Just consider this scenario. Your coming in from offshore, a channel that isn't well marked, good amount of traffic in it, and shore lights that make it difficult to see and lights on a channel marker. Do you want to have to go below to see where you are. From my perspective, a chartplotter at the nav station is best used for trip and route planning, not underway navigation. I guess the best of both worlds would be to mount it on a swing out bracket as Roger has. If your one who wants to navigate the old way, using paper charts and a sextant as your primary means of navigation, and the GPS only as a backup and planning tool, then stick it at the nav station.

 

[kloudie1]

Chartplotter at wheel

I am with Easy on this one:
Having had it both ways, I much prefer the small plotter at the wheel. The laptop is great down below for planning .. and faster chart reviewing

 

[Sumner]

This does it for me:

..............Here is the helm mount for the handheld:

Roger the mount for the chart plotter is nice, but I love the one for the map76. I'm going to have to copy you on that one .

We are going through the same predicament right now. We used a Map76 this past year, but not really to navigate except to go out to where we had stopped sailing the day before when we were trying to sail the length of Lake Powell. The rest of the time I always knew were we were by looking at the charts we had and we just used it to see how far we had traveled.

Next fall we want to be in Florida and the Keys for maybe 3 months and I've bought the charts and see all the thin water there and want to do something better. A friend has suggested that we really need a chart plotter.

We bought a second Map76 off ebay as a backup to the other one and so that we could have one hooked to the VHF with DSC. I downloaded Sea Clear and OpenCPN and also the NOAA charts and have them on the computer. I have the cable to hook the 76 to the computer and it is a snap to mark a route with say OpenCPN and download it to the 76. You can do it in minute. We will have two laptops on board with a GPS puck on one of them.

I'm wondering if the 76's will do the job? We are also looking at Garmin 441S, 540S and 541S. I can see having a larger screen while sailing in some of those sounds would be great to see shallow areas. With the 76 we wouldn't see them unless we also bought Garmin's charts for it and if I was going to do that I would like to move up to the 441 or 540's with the preloaded charts.

We have a tiller boat, so there is not really a convenient place to put the chart plotter near the tiller, but I have some ideas on that and at the cabin is pretty close.

So not to screw up this thread, but we are also interested on people's thoughts and on the above mentioned chart plotters vs. the competition's in the same price range.

Thanks,

Sum and Ruth

P.S. Roger which chart plotter of Garmin's is the one in the picture?

Our Trips to Lake Powell, UT - Kootenay Lake, Canada - Priest Lake, ID

Our Mac Pages

Mac Links

 

[Stu Jackson]

A Handheld GPS is just a small chartplotter

I HATE stuff at the wheel, Ducati, and agree with you. We had a discussion like this a few months ago, and I tried some heresy: "What's the difference between my Garmin GPSMap 76Cx and a "chartplotter" that costs ten times as much?" The best answer "they" could come up with was the cost of the individual charts!

I think all that stuff behind the wheel takes away from sailing. So many people have dodgers that are so high they have to look through plastic all day long. Not my idea of being outdoors at all.

A friend who's sailed from Vancouver BC down to Mexico made these observations:

"new chartplotter with radar and AIS - large 8 inch screen on a bracket at the companionway. This is the perfect position for the instrument. Weekend sailing, you stand behind the wheel. Doing serious miles, you relax more comfortably in the cockpit and you can't see instruments behind the wheel. AIS is amazing. I thought it was poor mans radar, but it is much better than radar if you are trying to figure out what a vessel is up to (speed, direction, position, closest approach, vessel name and MMSI number right there for you). And best of all, the whole thing folds into the companionway so we don't worry about expensive electronics being left outside."

That may be the best compromise. Down below makes no sense unless you always sail with crew who want to or like to be down below. Heck, you might as well leave the chartplotter at home for all the good it's gonna do ya.

I singlehand a lot, and am rarely found behind the wheel: leaving the dock and coming back in. Having instruments back there makes NO sense to me. Even our autopilot is midway between back there and in the cockpit, easily reached from behind or in front of the wheel.

The charts are the same, and unless you have serious eyesight issues, if you can read a smaller screen, a handheld with a good mount, or perhaps two or more for security in different spots in the cockpit, would work just fine. We carry a rechargeable battery charger on the boat, so don't hassle with having to run wires from the house bank to figure out how to be plug the GPS in all the time either.

 

[Stu Jackson]

A friend has suggested that we really need a chart plotter...I'm wondering if the 76's will do the job?

Seriously, why do you think they wouldn't? They use the same charts? And the island rarely move...:neutral:

 

[Roger Long]

P.S. Roger which chart plotter of Garmin's is the one in the picture?

It's a 3205 which I believe is now discontinued. The picture of the handheld is an old one BTW. I only used the 76 the first two seasons and then upgraded to 76Cx because I needed the color screen and the ability to store more charts on the removable chip.

 

[Maine Sail]

Question?
If your chartplotter is located down below do you find it difficult to be running up and down to navigate while you sail?

Yes I find it difficult!! I have one up and one at the nav. The nav one is for plotting or emergency back up only. If you are crossing an ocean one at the nav station is fine but for coastal work one at the helm, or visible & usable from, it is money well spent. In fog, or at night, helm mounting is a very valuable tool...

I was also just considering the purchase of one of those handheld GPS with maps devices. They are 10% the cost of a C90.

Thanks

They will work fine but be small. If you have good eyes no problem..

 

[Roger Long]

I was also just considering the purchase of one of those handheld GPS with maps devices.

If you are sailing in an area where pre-plotting routes is important to reduce workload, consider the cost of a laptop and software for transferring routes to the handheld to be part of the cost.

I would never try to enter a route into my 76Cx directly, it's just too time consuming due to the small screen, the slow display update time, and complex sequences required by having so few buttons.

On the 3502 OTOH, if I change my mind about where I'm going, I can have a new and complex route entered very quickly. This is essential shorthanded in Maine's fogs and being able to do it on the fly was almost as much of an upgrade in the nav department last season as having radar.

You wouldn't be able to enter routes into your handheld nearly as quickly from a laptop either but, at least you could do it fast enough during trip pre-planning that you might. Once the routes are in the handheld, they work fine. In fact, having a route entered and following it makes the small screen more practical.

 

[Sumner]

Seriously, why do you think they wouldn't? The use the same charts? And the island rarely move...:neutral:

Stu I have no problem using the 76 to navigate from point A to B on the outboard. The screen on it is so small and the 4 gray scales not that great that if it is zoomed out much you can't see much. We like to sail whenever possible even if it takes a long time and we have to tack a lot. It is just a challenge we like. So we like to run on the outboard as little as possible. If we are tacking back and forth we would like to use as much of the channel width as possible. With the hand held and its small screen it is hard to see with much detail very far from the boat. I was disappointed to find out that the 4 inch screens (441S) are measured diagonal, so the 441 doesn't really have a lot larger screen than we already have. That is why we then started to look at the 540S and 541S. I think their screens, especially with the color, would be an improvement over what we have now.

Now if we went to something like a 76C with color we would have the color, but still the smaller screen and we would have to buy the maps for it and for about the same price we could get the 540S ($450.00) with the coastal maps for the entire US loaded and not just one area.

This trip to Florida will be all new water to us and we probably will be constantly (slowly) exploring new areas of it, so it will be a lot of new water and way shallower than what we have experienced so far. With the centerboard up we only draw 16-17 inches, but with it all the way down 6 feet. Now we won't need it all the way down unless we are tacking and even then we have tacked with it up, so our boat should be pretty good down there.

Thanks for the input and we haven't made a decision yet, so keep it coming and maybe it will help us and Ducati .

....You wouldn't be able to enter routes into your handheld nearly as quickly from a laptop either but, at least you could do it fast enough during trip pre-planning that you might. Once the routes are in the handheld, they work fine. In fact, having a route entered and following it makes the small screen more practical.

Roger thanks for the info on the chart plotter.

Have you used the free OpenCPN. I just opened the program, found an area in the keys on a free NOOA chart and laid out a 3.79 mile long route following the ICW with 17 way-points and sent it to the Map76 in less than two minutes, start to finish. You can put in any boat speed you want for the route and it will tell you instantly the time for the route.

I have the free Sea Clear II up and running, and it seems to have more features, but I haven't tried using it to send routes to the 76 yet.

This free software and the free NOOA charts are pretty amazing and I would strongly recommend anyone to look into them if they haven't already. Only negative is I can't send the charts to the 76, just the way-points :cry:.

Thanks guys,

Sum and Ruth

Our Trips to Lake Powell, UT - Kootenay Lake, Canada - Priest Lake, ID

Our Mac Pages

Mac Links

 

[Roger Long]

This free software and the free NOOA charts are pretty amazing and I would strongly recommend anyone to look into them if they haven't already. Only negative is I can't send the charts to the 76, just the way-points :cry:.

Yes, the free NOAA charts are great and I have even found that they have more detail than the printed NOAA charts in some places. I use them with Ocean Navigator Lite that comes free (or did) with Maptech's chartbooks. It's quite easy to load the charts in. I keep this set up on board as a back up but don't use it much for navigation.

And, yes, Garmin has you and everybody else by the short hairs with their propriatary chart set up and copy protection. Are you using the Blue Charts on the 76? If so, the Mapsource software the comes with them is great for route planning.

 

[Sumner]

........ Are you using the Blue Charts on the 76? If so, the Mapsource software the comes with them is great for route planning.

We haven't bought any Blue Charts for the 76. The lakes we were on last year weren't on the Inland lakes then and I don't really need them for the lakes. I've found the Fish-n-Map Company's maps to be fine for our lake sailing.

I've done a little looking so far, but no answer to the question:

Do any of the brands of chartplotters allow you do download NOAA maps into them?

The area we would like to have maps for is Southern Florida/Keys, the Sea of Cortez and possibly the San Juans. The Navionics Gold Region 17 map covers Florida/Keys and the Sea of Cortez. Also the G2 Garmin map covers all the coastal waters and down into the Sea of Cortez, but when I talked to them about what is preloaded into say the 400 and 500 series they loaded most of the G2, but not all of it. They cover a little ways down into the Sea of Cortez, but not as far as the 'real' G2 does and I think they also cut off some of the top of the Great Lakes according to the gal I talked to. If anyone has the G2 preloaded into their Garmin I would sure like to know how far down into the Sea of Cortez it does go, if you wouldn't mind looking and if the North Channel is included.

Thanks and c ya,

Sum

Our Trips to Lake Powell, UT - Kootenay Lake, Canada - Priest Lake, ID

Our Mac Pages

Mac Links

 

[wufibugs]

This has been enormously helpful. But, as always, I have some newbie questions. 1. If one were to take Buck's suggestion using a laptop or 12" notebook at the nav, with a flatscreen at the helm or on a swingmount at the cabin as in John's marvelous illustration, what size flatscreen would one want and how visible are they from the front and the sides of the cockpit? Also, how well do they tolerate the vibration and the weather [realizing they are not meant to handle spray or rain]? 2. If one wanted to add portable backup to that system, what is recommended? 3. How would this setup interface with radar?

PS: Was Buck referring to a TV or a monitor?