My 25 year old Westerly has a new Jabsco toilet fitted and all the heads floor and bilge underneath are clean and I use a Neutradol pellet - however I am still getting a nasty smell when the boat is left for a while. Someone has suggested this smell could be lingering in the hoses to the seacocks which are probably the original hoses. Does that sound like a realistic and likely cause?
Nasty smell in heads
- Thread starter 1340fxd
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There are a couple of prime suspects.
1- Dead critters in the intake water. When you flush water coming into the head is from the sea and filled with tiny critters they die and rot. Change to a freshwater flush system.
2-Permeated hoses. Odor from the toilet effluent lies in the hoses and the odor is absorbed and then released from the hose. Try the damp rag test. Take a rag, dampen with warm water and sit it on the hose. Come back a while later and sniff the rag. If it smells, the hoses need replacing with high quality hoses.
1- Dead critters in the intake water. When you flush water coming into the head is from the sea and filled with tiny critters they die and rot. Change to a freshwater flush system.
2-Permeated hoses. Odor from the toilet effluent lies in the hoses and the odor is absorbed and then released from the hose. Try the damp rag test. Take a rag, dampen with warm water and sit it on the hose. Come back a while later and sniff the rag. If it smells, the hoses need replacing with high quality hoses.
And get @Peggie Hall HeadMistress book. She likely will be along here to add her 2 cents, and it will be worth around a million dollars.
If the odor is confined to the head, only occurs with the first few flushes after the boat has sat for a while--even just a couple of days in warm weather, the source of you odor is almost certain to be dead and decaying animal or vegetable micro- (and sometimes not so micro-)sea organisms trapped in he head intake line, pump and channel in the rim of the bowl. A minor change in the toilet intake plumbing can solve this problem.
If, however, it isn't only limited to the first few flushes, I'd have to agree that your hoses are the culprit. Whether it is or not, I strongly recommend you replace ALL of them...the average working life of any hose is only about 10 years because rubber and plastics dry out over time, becoming hard, brittle and prone to cracking and splitting-the last thing you want to happen to a hose connected to an open below-waterline thru-hull!
I have to second SFS's recommendation that you buy my book (see link in my signature below). The title (my publisher's idea) is a bit misleading...'cuz although it does deal with every source of odor on a boat and how to cure, or better yet PREVENT 'em, it's actually a comprehensive "marine toilets and sanitation systems 101" manual that explains the laws, describes all the types of systems and how they work, and will help you learn how to operate and maintain your system to prevent 99% of problems instead of having to cure 'em. 'Cuz you get to do any preventive maintenance on your terms when it's convenient...the need to cure a problem never happens when it is!
And, I'm always happy to answer questions and help you solve any problems!
--Peggie
If, however, it isn't only limited to the first few flushes, I'd have to agree that your hoses are the culprit. Whether it is or not, I strongly recommend you replace ALL of them...the average working life of any hose is only about 10 years because rubber and plastics dry out over time, becoming hard, brittle and prone to cracking and splitting-the last thing you want to happen to a hose connected to an open below-waterline thru-hull!
I have to second SFS's recommendation that you buy my book (see link in my signature below). The title (my publisher's idea) is a bit misleading...'cuz although it does deal with every source of odor on a boat and how to cure, or better yet PREVENT 'em, it's actually a comprehensive "marine toilets and sanitation systems 101" manual that explains the laws, describes all the types of systems and how they work, and will help you learn how to operate and maintain your system to prevent 99% of problems instead of having to cure 'em. 'Cuz you get to do any preventive maintenance on your terms when it's convenient...the need to cure a problem never happens when it is!
And, I'm always happy to answer questions and help you solve any problems!
--Peggie
Sanitation hoses are one place where it doesn't pay to "go cheap" if you only want to do this job ONCE. That your boat is a Westerly leads me to believe that the Lymington in your avatar is in the UK...otoh, we have a Lymington in the US...in New Hampshire. And not knowing whether you're in the US severely limits me in recommending which hose to buy and which retailer has the best price for it.
--Peggie
--Peggie
Properly done and maintained a salt water flush system shouldn’t smell. Our setup has Peggie Hall approved hoses with a filter on the intake before the intake pump, you’d never even know there’s a head (occasional drop of raritan CP in the bowl every now and then). Do it right you won’t need to switch to fresh water.
I have gotten the off odor on the first pump when we leave the dock after the boat sits for, all ok after that. We dock on a river where reeds and other stuff get around our intake thru-hull, which may play a role. On our Raritan I found that leaving the pump handle a bit up and the selector midway between "in" and "out" seems to eliminate that stink. Maybe trapped gas does not build that way?
If you only have odor from the bowl and only for the first couple of flushes after the boat has been sitting, dead and decaying sea water micro--and sometimes not-so-micro--sea organisms are definitely the source. Leaving the pump handle "stuck" between "flush" and "dry" only blocks it at the toilet...the intake line is still full of stinky water.
There's a very simple and inexpensive way to prevent odor caused by sea water left to sit and stagnate in the toilet intake:
Sink drain thru-hulls are below the waterline on almost all sailboats. So re-route the toilet intake hose to tee or wye it into the sink drain line as close to the seacock as possible because the connection must be below waterline to work. (The toilet will no longer use the flush water intake thry-hull, it will now pull water in through the sink thru-hull )
This will allow you to flush normally with sea water. To flush all the sea water out of the entire system when you're ready to leave the boat, close the sink drain seacock (you do close all seacocks before leaving the boat to sit??), fill the sink with clean fresh water and flush the toilet. Because the seacock is closed, the toilet will draw the water out of the sink, rinsing the sea water out of the entire system—intake line, pump, channel in the rim of the bowl and the toilet discharge line, (water poured into the bowl only rinses out the toilet discharge line). If your toilet is electric, be careful not to let it run dry…doing so can burn out the intake impeller. Or you can keep the sink drain seacock closed except when it's needed to drain the sink and flush with fresh water down the sink all the time...your choice.
It may also be necessary to keep the sink plugged except when in use, with a rubber sink plug or by installing a conveniently located shut-off valve in the drain hose. Otherwise the toilet may pull air through the sink when you try to flush, preventing the pump from priming.
You said you're in an area where there's a lot of bottom vegetation...you don't need that in your toilet intake line or sink drain line...so it may be advisable to also install a strainer in the toilet intake line just before the tee.
And I have a question: is there a vented loop in the toilet intake line? If not, there should be. It belongs between the pump and the bowl as shown in the drawing "Figure 5" on page 5 of the PHII (same toilet as the PH SuperFlush) owners manual.
--Peggie
There's a very simple and inexpensive way to prevent odor caused by sea water left to sit and stagnate in the toilet intake:
Sink drain thru-hulls are below the waterline on almost all sailboats. So re-route the toilet intake hose to tee or wye it into the sink drain line as close to the seacock as possible because the connection must be below waterline to work. (The toilet will no longer use the flush water intake thry-hull, it will now pull water in through the sink thru-hull )
This will allow you to flush normally with sea water. To flush all the sea water out of the entire system when you're ready to leave the boat, close the sink drain seacock (you do close all seacocks before leaving the boat to sit??), fill the sink with clean fresh water and flush the toilet. Because the seacock is closed, the toilet will draw the water out of the sink, rinsing the sea water out of the entire system—intake line, pump, channel in the rim of the bowl and the toilet discharge line, (water poured into the bowl only rinses out the toilet discharge line). If your toilet is electric, be careful not to let it run dry…doing so can burn out the intake impeller. Or you can keep the sink drain seacock closed except when it's needed to drain the sink and flush with fresh water down the sink all the time...your choice.
It may also be necessary to keep the sink plugged except when in use, with a rubber sink plug or by installing a conveniently located shut-off valve in the drain hose. Otherwise the toilet may pull air through the sink when you try to flush, preventing the pump from priming.
You said you're in an area where there's a lot of bottom vegetation...you don't need that in your toilet intake line or sink drain line...so it may be advisable to also install a strainer in the toilet intake line just before the tee.
And I have a question: is there a vented loop in the toilet intake line? If not, there should be. It belongs between the pump and the bowl as shown in the drawing "Figure 5" on page 5 of the PHII (same toilet as the PH SuperFlush) owners manual.
--Peggie