My tacky Epifanes problem - update

Apr 24, 2006
868
Aloha 32 Toronto, Lake Ontario
Well, I have figured a few things out but still need advice.

I determined that it's not the product or my degreasing fluids. To prove this I took a discarded piece of trim (off a 1986 boat) that was half grey and half remnants of old Cetol. I sanded part of it down to nice 'red' wood, left part grey and left part with the old Cetol. I made three of these samples and degreased one with acetone, the other with the Epifanes product (mentioned in their prep instructions) and left the last one as is. I coated with the product thinned 25% and checked back in 24 hours.

It dried properly on all the samples, no tackiness anywhere. So it's not the product - therefore must be the wood.

I should also mention that there was some confusion regarding the product, thinning etc. I'm using Epifanes Wood Finish which is not Epifanes Varnish. The manufacturer recommends the 25% thinning of the first coat when applied to teak. It's 50% for non-oily woods and the varnish is 50% all round. So I am trying to follow the manufacturer recommendations for this particular product in this particular application (oily wood).

Anyway, it must be wood. I used fresh lumber, not teak that has been sitting on a boat for decades or in a warehouse for years. It was very oily - there wasn't even any saw "dust", only slightly damp feeling stuff when drilled or sanded. I did degrease for a good 20 minutes with rags soaked in acetone and the surface even felt dry after that.

But it's still tacky after 4 1/2 days. Not all over but in places, typically on the cut edges that are with the grain. I've attached a few pics and anywhere it's a bit shiny, it's tacky. The worse tackiness is the shiny bands in the instrument cutouts.

So my question now is for anyone who has worked with fresh teak. I know this will eventually dry - but will the next coats also take weeks? Or should I be removing the Epifanes and finish it some either way? BTW I have read of people have the same issue with any and all brands of varnish - and typically on new wood.

Any advice appreciated.

Thanks,

Chris


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Apr 24, 2006
868
Aloha 32 Toronto, Lake Ontario
My neighbour, who makes furniture (but works with kiln dried woods) suggested I wait a few more days. If Any places are still tacky, wipe them with acetone.
He thinks that may remove the tacky finish plus further degrease the "oily" area.

Thoughts?

Chris
 
Mar 20, 2012
3,983
Cal 34-III, MacGregor 25 Salem, Oregon
Epifanes is my varnish of choice, but after applying it i always use a fan on the object to help the evaporators flash off so it sets quickly. This usually takes about 6hrs at 70-72 degrees indoors... outside with more moisture in the air it takes longer, 14-24 hours...

I have found with my style of application, Its not good to use it in direct sunlight, as two problems seem to happen... 1, the heat thins the product and it has a tendency to sag before setting... 2, it has a tendency to skin over too quickly and it slows the evaporators from escaping, leaving the surdace tacky for a much longer time... so other than the proper prep which it sounds like you have taken care of, i could only suggest make sure the enviroment is proper with some positive air movement over the surface...

I have never attempted to apply it over wood that was questionably damp/dry, so i dont know what the symptoms or problems one may encounter in that situation... BUT, i do know and have experianced, applying any spar varnish on fir wood that has a higher than normal resin/pitch content, even if the wood is bone dry, can cause varnish drying/gloss problems. And if not immediatly, it can develop a severe blem at any time...
 
Jan 4, 2006
7,170
Hunter 310 West Vancouver, B.C.
This is purely based on past experience but, after wiping a teak project with acetone, I then wiped it with lacquer thinner. I remember seeing that nugget somewhere but who knows where. The amount of additional oil removed was considerable. This MAY help in your surface preparation.

For the additional work you're looking at for the panel, I'd be inclined to remove the previous sticky finish and start again from scratch. I know that lacquer thinner is pretty aggressive and may remove some of the sticky mess. If not, it's back to sandpaper which is always fun with a sticky finish.

Talking about finishing teak, for outside teak, I've always used about five coats of epoxy and then three coats of gloss varnish. The finish looks like wet varnish for years after.

Any brand of clear finishing epoxy will do and most manufacturers have extensive literature on their web sites.
 

Attachments

Mar 20, 2012
3,983
Cal 34-III, MacGregor 25 Salem, Oregon
Talking about finishing teak, for outside teak, I've always used about five coats of epoxy and then three coats of gloss varnish. The finish looks like wet varnish for years after.

Any brand of clear finishing epoxy will do and most manufacturers have extensive literature on their web sites.
I agree that applying a couple of coats of epoxy to seal the wood is a good way to insure sucess. And It seems to last longer before needing a recoat of varnish.
I have used this method both inside and out without any problems, but i only use two coats of epoxy.... one to soak in, harden and seal the wood, then i sand it lightly to smooth the surface, and then a second coat for insurance to cover any wood opened by the light sanding... then i use a scotchbrite pad to break the gloss. then the epifanes... with this method, 3 coats of epifanes is all that is needed to create a glass smooth protective uv barrier..
 
Jan 4, 2006
7,170
Hunter 310 West Vancouver, B.C.
use two coats of epoxy.... one to soak in, harden and seal the wood, then i sand it lightly to smooth the surface, and then a second coat for insurance to cover any wood opened by the light sanding...
You can cut down your work by applying each coat of epoxy as soon as the previous coat is tacky (green). Both West System and System Three epoxies recommend a chemical bond between each layer. I apply the five coats in one day and lightly torch each application to remove air bubbles. Allow a few weeks for the epoxy to fully cure, then sand with #120 before varnishing.

System Three puts out an excellent manual on these techniques (attached).
 

Attachments

Mar 20, 2012
3,983
Cal 34-III, MacGregor 25 Salem, Oregon
You can cut down your work by applying each coat of epoxy as soon as the previous coat is tacky (green). Both West System and System Three epoxies recommend a chemical bond between each layer. I apply the five coats in one day and lightly torch each application to remove air bubbles. Allow a few weeks for the epoxy to fully cure, then sand with #120 before varnishing.

System Three puts out an excellent manual on these techniques (attached).
Ralph, i do this alot when the finish doesnt matter so much, but im always afraid i will sand thru any raised/rough spots when im getting ready for the arnish.
 

Gunni

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Mar 16, 2010
5,937
Beneteau 411 Oceanis Annapolis
Ralph, i do this alot when the finish doesnt matter so much, but im always afraid i will sand thru any raised/rough spots when im getting ready for the arnish.
Use 220 grit paper when working with epoxy and prepping for varnish, 120 is too coarse. Laquer thinner or denatured alcohol for prep wipe. Acetone is notorious for oily impurities and causes holidays and fisheyes.