This might be a silly question but why would it not be a good idea to tie a mushroom anchor in to the rode about 10' to 15' up from the main anchor. This would reduce the angle of the rode pulling on the main anchor and, it would seem tom me, help make the anchor bite better.
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It IS a very god idea
and it's called a kellet or sentinel. Do a search here on both words and find out more.
and it's called a kellet or sentinel. Do a search here on both words and find out more.
Re: It IS a very god idea
Stu is correct. A weight or kellet is often used that way to increase the catenary, or angle of the rode to the anchor. Of course, it does not need to be a mushroom anchor, and other weights might be easier to handle.
Stu is correct. A weight or kellet is often used that way to increase the catenary, or angle of the rode to the anchor. Of course, it does not need to be a mushroom anchor, and other weights might be easier to handle.
Some thoughts..
Kellets are often misunderstood and there are a few things to consider before using one. I would not use an anchor, mushroom or any other type, as a kellet though. In light winds the boat could swing to the mushroom but then if a wind or tide shift occurred the rode would 180 back on its self and when the loads got high enough, in the opposite direction, the mushroom can or could be pulled straight at the main anchor and foul it.
Some things to consider:
1) Kellets offer very little value when you need them most, which is in high winds. A 40 foot boat using a 33 lb kellet, as illustrated by Alain Fraysse in his book on anchoring, would draw the rode tight in only 30 knots of wind! Considering a 40 footer would only require a good 44 pound anchor to begin with a 33 pound kellet is HUGE. Most kellets are not 33 pounds..
2) If your anchor is dragging in under 30 knots of wind the kellet is NOT your answer your answer is a bigger, or better, anchor.
3) Kellets can foul your main anchor.
4) In order for a kellet to put max horizontal load to the anchor to keep it dug in it needs to be as close to the anchor as possible. Unfortunately kellets hang off an anchor rode and if you put it close to the anchor it will be doing nothing but sitting on the bottom adding little value.
5) For maximum shock loading the kellet should be placed at the mid point of the scope. This though does not help your anchor stay parallel to the bottom. A compromise is for it to be located 25% of the way from the anchor but then this still does not give you optimum anchor angle and shock loading reduction. Again the additional weight of a kellet would be better served placed into a main anchor, more chain or using more scope.
6) Seeing a most kellets weigh considerably less than 33 lbs, like the one used in Fraysse example of the 40 footer, it is safe to say that a 15 pound kellet, on a 30 some odd footer, will see the rode go straight in considerably less wind than 30 knots. Again, if your primary anchor can not hold your boat in 30 knots that is your issue.
7) Adding more chain as opposed to a kellet, which can be tricky to deploy/retrieve and can in some instances cause unwanted chafe on the main rode, is a better spend of money.
Kellets are good for some things just not helping in keeping your caternary in higher winds.
Kellets can:
*Help dampen and minimize sailing or swinging at anchor
*Minimize swing radius in light conditions
*Help dampen a boat and keep it stationary when bow/stern anchored
*Help ensure that rode is kept down and away from the boat’s keel, rudder, and propeller (but so does chain).
Kellets can't:
Keep a caternary in a rode in high wind conditions when you need them most, unless they are very, very, very heavy, at which point it would be wise to just add a bigger anchor.
In short if your anchor is sized properly, and you use proper techniques, there should be almost no situation where a kellet is necessary. Any anchor/chain combination for a boat should hold that vessel at a 7:1 scope in winds to a MINIMUM of 40 knots. If you are dragging anchor in less than 40 knots please get a new anchor first rather than trying to band-aid an improperly sized anchor into thinking it is bigger or better than it really is! A more comfortable design is an anchor system sized for a at least 60. Remember a kellet in most situations stops working as "intended" at about 30 knots give or take depending upon the weight.
Kellets are often misunderstood and there are a few things to consider before using one. I would not use an anchor, mushroom or any other type, as a kellet though. In light winds the boat could swing to the mushroom but then if a wind or tide shift occurred the rode would 180 back on its self and when the loads got high enough, in the opposite direction, the mushroom can or could be pulled straight at the main anchor and foul it.
Some things to consider:
1) Kellets offer very little value when you need them most, which is in high winds. A 40 foot boat using a 33 lb kellet, as illustrated by Alain Fraysse in his book on anchoring, would draw the rode tight in only 30 knots of wind! Considering a 40 footer would only require a good 44 pound anchor to begin with a 33 pound kellet is HUGE. Most kellets are not 33 pounds..
2) If your anchor is dragging in under 30 knots of wind the kellet is NOT your answer your answer is a bigger, or better, anchor.
3) Kellets can foul your main anchor.
4) In order for a kellet to put max horizontal load to the anchor to keep it dug in it needs to be as close to the anchor as possible. Unfortunately kellets hang off an anchor rode and if you put it close to the anchor it will be doing nothing but sitting on the bottom adding little value.
5) For maximum shock loading the kellet should be placed at the mid point of the scope. This though does not help your anchor stay parallel to the bottom. A compromise is for it to be located 25% of the way from the anchor but then this still does not give you optimum anchor angle and shock loading reduction. Again the additional weight of a kellet would be better served placed into a main anchor, more chain or using more scope.
6) Seeing a most kellets weigh considerably less than 33 lbs, like the one used in Fraysse example of the 40 footer, it is safe to say that a 15 pound kellet, on a 30 some odd footer, will see the rode go straight in considerably less wind than 30 knots. Again, if your primary anchor can not hold your boat in 30 knots that is your issue.
7) Adding more chain as opposed to a kellet, which can be tricky to deploy/retrieve and can in some instances cause unwanted chafe on the main rode, is a better spend of money.
Kellets are good for some things just not helping in keeping your caternary in higher winds.
Kellets can:
*Help dampen and minimize sailing or swinging at anchor
*Minimize swing radius in light conditions
*Help dampen a boat and keep it stationary when bow/stern anchored
*Help ensure that rode is kept down and away from the boat’s keel, rudder, and propeller (but so does chain).
Kellets can't:
Keep a caternary in a rode in high wind conditions when you need them most, unless they are very, very, very heavy, at which point it would be wise to just add a bigger anchor.
In short if your anchor is sized properly, and you use proper techniques, there should be almost no situation where a kellet is necessary. Any anchor/chain combination for a boat should hold that vessel at a 7:1 scope in winds to a MINIMUM of 40 knots. If you are dragging anchor in less than 40 knots please get a new anchor first rather than trying to band-aid an improperly sized anchor into thinking it is bigger or better than it really is! A more comfortable design is an anchor system sized for a at least 60. Remember a kellet in most situations stops working as "intended" at about 30 knots give or take depending upon the weight.
Well put Maine Sail.
Just want to add, that to get the positives you listed, it's best to keep it on the rode near the bow. So if it's 15' to the bottom from the roller, then put the kellet on a 13' line.
I use a 40 lb kellet when anchoring in areas with current shifts to keep my rode off my keel. I've had it wrapped around the keel when a 50 knot storm hit. Not a good thing but that problem has been eliminated with the kelllet.
Even with my 40 lb kellet on, the rode pulls tight in 25 knots of wind so if anything, at that point, it's hurting my holding by increasing the load.
Want good holding and great setting, get a Bulwagga anchor and you will never think about your anchor again. Just drop it over, let out slowly a 7:1 scope and go to sleep. Don't even need to set it....but do allow for 5' of room for it to set itself (it digs in as it moves).
Just want to add, that to get the positives you listed, it's best to keep it on the rode near the bow. So if it's 15' to the bottom from the roller, then put the kellet on a 13' line.
I use a 40 lb kellet when anchoring in areas with current shifts to keep my rode off my keel. I've had it wrapped around the keel when a 50 knot storm hit. Not a good thing but that problem has been eliminated with the kelllet.
Even with my 40 lb kellet on, the rode pulls tight in 25 knots of wind so if anything, at that point, it's hurting my holding by increasing the load.
Want good holding and great setting, get a Bulwagga anchor and you will never think about your anchor again. Just drop it over, let out slowly a 7:1 scope and go to sleep. Don't even need to set it....but do allow for 5' of room for it to set itself (it digs in as it moves).
This is why I use one. We have a light weight 8 # for just use in reversing currents. We have about 50' of chain and 150 ft. of 1/2" rode. It works great in calm conditions with reversing currents. Otherwise, I don't bother with it.
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Kellet
Our 30,000 pound sailboat is set up with a 40 pound Danforth anchor, 50 feet of chain and 250 feet of rope. I have a 20 pound lead fishing ball with a carabiiner that I clip onto the rope once the anchor sets. The ball slides down to the rope-to-chain shackle. I've anchored hundreds of times in all kinds of weather and bottom conditions in PNW waters including gale force winds for extended periods without incident. Maybe some day it will foul or whatever, but until that day (maybe never), I'll continue to use what works for our boat.
Our 30,000 pound sailboat is set up with a 40 pound Danforth anchor, 50 feet of chain and 250 feet of rope. I have a 20 pound lead fishing ball with a carabiiner that I clip onto the rope once the anchor sets. The ball slides down to the rope-to-chain shackle. I've anchored hundreds of times in all kinds of weather and bottom conditions in PNW waters including gale force winds for extended periods without incident. Maybe some day it will foul or whatever, but until that day (maybe never), I'll continue to use what works for our boat.
Wow that really goes to illustrate how little effect they actually have on actually increasing caternary. 25 knots pulls the rode tight with a 40 pound kellet! That is huge kellet too..
Like I said they have some benefits just not the one people usually purchase one for and that is increasing caternary.
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