I sail on Lake Ontario and I know that a "Y" valve between the head and the holding tank that would permit direct overboard discharge from the head is illegal and subject to an up to $5000 fine if caught in one of the random CCG inspections. My 1989 Hunter 30G does not have a Y-valve, but it does have a manual diaphram pump (located in a closet in the head) and thru hull that would allow the holding tank to be pumped overboard. This is in addition to the deck plate for marina pump out. I guess there is little difference between raw sewage from the head and "seasoned" stuff from the holding tank, and maybe it's splitting hairs, but does anyone know if this arrangement is just as illegal? I would never use this thing on the Lake. Would just wiring the seacock closed satisfy the CCG requirements? If I've got to disconnect this, I'm considering converting the large manual diaphram pump and 2" hose to an emergency backup manual bilge pump. Has anyone done this? Thanks.
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Peggie Hall/Head Mistress
It's just as illegal as a y-valve...and--
There's no reason at all why you couldn't--or shouldn't--convert the pump to a back-up emergency bilge pump. In fact, a manual bilge pump is something you really should have anyway. I'm curious, though...if there's no y-valve, or at least a wye or tee fitting in your pumpout line, how is the pump connected to the thru-hull?
There's no reason at all why you couldn't--or shouldn't--convert the pump to a back-up emergency bilge pump. In fact, a manual bilge pump is something you really should have anyway. I'm curious, though...if there's no y-valve, or at least a wye or tee fitting in your pumpout line, how is the pump connected to the thru-hull?
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Ken Palmer
two answers
Bob, I sail a Hunter 33 out of Rochester. I converted the old style pladder holding tank with a hard tank. I also have a hand pump that was connected to manually pump out to a thru-hull. I removed the "Y", and ran the tank output hose directly to the deck fitting for pump-out. The hose from the thru-hull to the manual pump was left connected, with no input to the manual pump. My plans are to run a new hose from the input to the bildge as a manual back-up. I see no problem with any of that. Peggy, If I read your answer correctly: when you are pumped out at the dock-side, that pump actually "sucks" up the tank contents. There is no need to have a "Y" or "T" adaptor on the tank output when used this way. Ken Palmer, S/V Liberty
Bob, I sail a Hunter 33 out of Rochester. I converted the old style pladder holding tank with a hard tank. I also have a hand pump that was connected to manually pump out to a thru-hull. I removed the "Y", and ran the tank output hose directly to the deck fitting for pump-out. The hose from the thru-hull to the manual pump was left connected, with no input to the manual pump. My plans are to run a new hose from the input to the bildge as a manual back-up. I see no problem with any of that. Peggy, If I read your answer correctly: when you are pumped out at the dock-side, that pump actually "sucks" up the tank contents. There is no need to have a "Y" or "T" adaptor on the tank output when used this way. Ken Palmer, S/V Liberty
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Peggie Hall/Head Mistress
Thanks Ken...
I know how a pumpout works (if not, I've been in the wrong business for 13 years!) However, if one is to dump a tank out a thru-hull using an onboard pump, there has to be a means of diverting it to thru-hull instead of the deck fitting. Bob said there's no y-valve...my question to him was, what is in the system that allows the tank to be dumped instead of pumped.
I know how a pumpout works (if not, I've been in the wrong business for 13 years!) However, if one is to dump a tank out a thru-hull using an onboard pump, there has to be a means of diverting it to thru-hull instead of the deck fitting. Bob said there's no y-valve...my question to him was, what is in the system that allows the tank to be dumped instead of pumped.
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Ken Palmer
Right you are Peggie
I just re-read the original post, and I don't see how he cannot have a Y valve installed. Either the waste goes up to the deck fitting, or to the manual pump. Therefore there must be some sort of Y. The question was with legallities of having the equipment hooked up to pump overboard while on Lake Ontario. I suggest he contact the local Coast Guard unit or Auxillary at his home port. I have disconnected my manual system as stated in an earlier post. Oh yes, it is very rare to be boarded by the Coast Guard on a sailboat in Lake Ontario (here on the US side). They have enough to keep them busy looking after the PWC and power boaters. Ken Palmer, S/V Liberty
I just re-read the original post, and I don't see how he cannot have a Y valve installed. Either the waste goes up to the deck fitting, or to the manual pump. Therefore there must be some sort of Y. The question was with legallities of having the equipment hooked up to pump overboard while on Lake Ontario. I suggest he contact the local Coast Guard unit or Auxillary at his home port. I have disconnected my manual system as stated in an earlier post. Oh yes, it is very rare to be boarded by the Coast Guard on a sailboat in Lake Ontario (here on the US side). They have enough to keep them busy looking after the PWC and power boaters. Ken Palmer, S/V Liberty
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Bob E.
Thanks for the answers
Ken is right -- there doesn't need to be a Y-valve, with the emphasis on the word valve. Obviously, there is either a "T" connection somewhere, or else two outlet fittings on the tank. When the tank is pumped out through the deck fitting, there must be a lot of suction put on the diaphram of the manual pump, but it seems to be able to handle it. The tank is a hard poly tank squeezed into a cabinet in the head, and I haven't yet figured out how to access the discharge connection without major surgery to the cabinetry. I do have a manual bilge pump in the cockpit, but Hunter in their wisdom has chosen to put a restriction in the inlet side by reducing the hose diameter between the bilge and the pump. I am glad to hear that other people also have or are considering converting the manual holding tank pump to a backup bilge pump. I also want to install a second, high capacity electric bilge pump, but the bilge is only 3-3/4" wide and there aren't any decent pumps that small. So far, the Rule 20-A looks like the best bet. Anyone have experience with that pump, or know of an alternative that would fit? I don't really trust thru hulls and hoses. Thanks again.
Ken is right -- there doesn't need to be a Y-valve, with the emphasis on the word valve. Obviously, there is either a "T" connection somewhere, or else two outlet fittings on the tank. When the tank is pumped out through the deck fitting, there must be a lot of suction put on the diaphram of the manual pump, but it seems to be able to handle it. The tank is a hard poly tank squeezed into a cabinet in the head, and I haven't yet figured out how to access the discharge connection without major surgery to the cabinetry. I do have a manual bilge pump in the cockpit, but Hunter in their wisdom has chosen to put a restriction in the inlet side by reducing the hose diameter between the bilge and the pump. I am glad to hear that other people also have or are considering converting the manual holding tank pump to a backup bilge pump. I also want to install a second, high capacity electric bilge pump, but the bilge is only 3-3/4" wide and there aren't any decent pumps that small. So far, the Rule 20-A looks like the best bet. Anyone have experience with that pump, or know of an alternative that would fit? I don't really trust thru hulls and hoses. Thanks again.
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Bob E.
CCG Inspections
The phantom "send it before I'm done" key strikes again! Anyway, what I wanted to say is that it's good (and bad!) to know that MSD inspections are rare. I don't have any statistics, but I was inspected once (a different boat). I was docked at Fifty Point or Port Dalousie and the Coast Guard went down the dock and boarded every boat. Word went around that they found an American boat with a Y-valve, but didn't fine him. He had to produce proof within a cetain time that he had it disconnected to avoid the fine.
The phantom "send it before I'm done" key strikes again! Anyway, what I wanted to say is that it's good (and bad!) to know that MSD inspections are rare. I don't have any statistics, but I was inspected once (a different boat). I was docked at Fifty Point or Port Dalousie and the Coast Guard went down the dock and boarded every boat. Word went around that they found an American boat with a Y-valve, but didn't fine him. He had to produce proof within a cetain time that he had it disconnected to avoid the fine.
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