I've owned an H-31 1985, my first sailing vessel, for four seasons now here on the Chesapeake Bay. I've prinmarily enagaged in week night club racing and weekend cruising. Having enjoyed this so much I now want a newer (2000 forward) and larger (33 to 38)vessel to take my sailing over longer periods and beyond the Bay. I very much enjoy my present Hunter, and think that something like an H-356 would meet my needs nicely. My concern is the "scuttlebut" about the strength, speed and reliability of the more modern Hunters. Many people around here belive that these boats are risky for serious sailing due to the lack of a backstay, they are not as rigid as other boats and have a tendency to bend and warp in winds as low as 15 - 20 knots, and are slow when compard to boats having a similar water line say Catalina and Benetau. While I've never seen documentary evidence of the above, and I have met many happy Hunter owners, these opinions do concern me. Any suggestions or experiences that might help me to overcome my reservations? Thanks, Greig
Movung Up - Hunter Value
- Thread starter Greig18131
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You're in for a surprise
Post-2000 Hunters are not the battleships of 1985, but rather lighter and sleeker and faster. Backstay scuttlebutt is just that. Catalina would die to have invented the B&R rig. If you choose in-mast furling, my only caution is beware of short boom. Mine on 2001 H320 is way too short because Selden chinsed on a too-thin mast for the in-mast furling. I had to compensate by having North build me a 120 genoa to provide more power than the cheesy 100 jib that came with the boat. That said, the boat is steady and safe, great for crusing and entertaining. I did 122 days last year and enjoyed every one, including two 10-day trips up the Bay.
Post-2000 Hunters are not the battleships of 1985, but rather lighter and sleeker and faster. Backstay scuttlebutt is just that. Catalina would die to have invented the B&R rig. If you choose in-mast furling, my only caution is beware of short boom. Mine on 2001 H320 is way too short because Selden chinsed on a too-thin mast for the in-mast furling. I had to compensate by having North build me a 120 genoa to provide more power than the cheesy 100 jib that came with the boat. That said, the boat is steady and safe, great for crusing and entertaining. I did 122 days last year and enjoyed every one, including two 10-day trips up the Bay.
do some research
and make your own informed judgement. Comparing resale values of equivalent sized boats from different mfgs is easy to do if the asking prices on Yachtworld are indicative of value. If you are concerned about the B&R rig (backstay-less rig), check out the America's Cup boat designs to see if anyone with some expertise might argue the point. The new Catalina 375 has precisely the same mast the contemporary Hunters use now. I doubt any mfg would risk the liability of a weak link there. If my neighbor's Catalina 400 is any indication, there is a big difference in speed but just the opposite of what you've apparently been told about Hunters. In short, they are all made to the same general design strength for the saem type of coastal sailing and all competing for/in the same market and all three are doing well. Buy the boat that you like the best and ignore the so-called experts that like to criticize as they think it makes them sound more informed than they might actually be.
and make your own informed judgement. Comparing resale values of equivalent sized boats from different mfgs is easy to do if the asking prices on Yachtworld are indicative of value. If you are concerned about the B&R rig (backstay-less rig), check out the America's Cup boat designs to see if anyone with some expertise might argue the point. The new Catalina 375 has precisely the same mast the contemporary Hunters use now. I doubt any mfg would risk the liability of a weak link there. If my neighbor's Catalina 400 is any indication, there is a big difference in speed but just the opposite of what you've apparently been told about Hunters. In short, they are all made to the same general design strength for the saem type of coastal sailing and all competing for/in the same market and all three are doing well. Buy the boat that you like the best and ignore the so-called experts that like to criticize as they think it makes them sound more informed than they might actually be.
Poor Rep
Hunter critics are still using old hearsay when they talk about Hunters. Granted, here in the Northeast, the older Hunters had a poor reutation about Quality and QA. The truth us: Anything that's made in production mode and tests only a portion of every X-th unit coming out of productionwill encounter some difficulties. When's the last new auto that you heard of that didn't have any problems? And who usually fixes them correctly? That said, I've had to head off many questions about the Hunter quality. And I must say you will hear plenty of old hogwash out there about Hunters. I have an acquaintance that recently bought a H456 (used). She almost didn't buy it because of the old rep. Now, she's very happy with her purchase (Her husband understands the hogwash. So he is not the problem).
Hunter critics are still using old hearsay when they talk about Hunters. Granted, here in the Northeast, the older Hunters had a poor reutation about Quality and QA. The truth us: Anything that's made in production mode and tests only a portion of every X-th unit coming out of productionwill encounter some difficulties. When's the last new auto that you heard of that didn't have any problems? And who usually fixes them correctly? That said, I've had to head off many questions about the Hunter quality. And I must say you will hear plenty of old hogwash out there about Hunters. I have an acquaintance that recently bought a H456 (used). She almost didn't buy it because of the old rep. Now, she's very happy with her purchase (Her husband understands the hogwash. So he is not the problem).
Greig, the reason for the backstay less riggin
on the Hunters is to accomodate the large roach mainsail. The power provided by this mainsail makes for a quite fast sailboat in each of the classes when compared to the competition. The shrouds on the swept back spreaders and the mast supports more than amply provide support and safety for the rig. Even with the swept back spreaders the boats move quite nicely downwind. Do look at the Catalinas and the Benetaus but don't rule out the Hunters based on scuttlebuts.
on the Hunters is to accomodate the large roach mainsail. The power provided by this mainsail makes for a quite fast sailboat in each of the classes when compared to the competition. The shrouds on the swept back spreaders and the mast supports more than amply provide support and safety for the rig. Even with the swept back spreaders the boats move quite nicely downwind. Do look at the Catalinas and the Benetaus but don't rule out the Hunters based on scuttlebuts.
Agree with Research
Now that you are ready to sell your mid 80's Hunter it is time to ask yourself why a Catalina 30 from the same vintage usually sells at a higher price. Production changes made by Hunter are almost always made to reduce production costs and rarely improve the final product quality. The new Hunters have big prices and they are still Hunters. Think about that before you write the check. Personally I'd invest in a condo before that chlorux bottle with a mast (and no back stay)
Now that you are ready to sell your mid 80's Hunter it is time to ask yourself why a Catalina 30 from the same vintage usually sells at a higher price. Production changes made by Hunter are almost always made to reduce production costs and rarely improve the final product quality. The new Hunters have big prices and they are still Hunters. Think about that before you write the check. Personally I'd invest in a condo before that chlorux bottle with a mast (and no back stay)
Remember Bayliner
Ford, Chevy, Smith and Wesson, Ruger, all hogwash. You would think the brand debate here was between a bunch of grade schoolers. Bayliner took a bunch of shit for their sandwich construction in the 80’s, Sea Ray said it was crap WOW what does Sea Ray use now? Not to mention just about every other boat builder. So be careful when engaged in the emotional "brand" debate. Get the facts do your homework and enjoy your new to you boat how juvenile when I hear: I WOULD NEVER BE CAUGHT DEAD IN A CHEVY" well get over it. Buy what you can afford and suits your needs and wants. It's all good if you are on a boat.
Ford, Chevy, Smith and Wesson, Ruger, all hogwash. You would think the brand debate here was between a bunch of grade schoolers. Bayliner took a bunch of shit for their sandwich construction in the 80’s, Sea Ray said it was crap WOW what does Sea Ray use now? Not to mention just about every other boat builder. So be careful when engaged in the emotional "brand" debate. Get the facts do your homework and enjoy your new to you boat how juvenile when I hear: I WOULD NEVER BE CAUGHT DEAD IN A CHEVY" well get over it. Buy what you can afford and suits your needs and wants. It's all good if you are on a boat.
new and improved hunters...
Greig, Absolutely do your own research and feel completely happy before you sign the check. That said, we have a H33 that i am thrilled with. My wife raced as a teen and young adult so this new boat was all about convenience. We have in mast furling with a vertical batten main, which adds some sq footage and a bit more control over the sail shape and roller furling for the jib. The cockpit is good size and very comfortable, however the cushions are essential. We feel the interior is the best of the midsize boats with plenty of space in the main salon for guests, a full galley, a full size v-berth and a full size aft cabin. We are cruisers, we don't race her, but we do like to sail at a reasonable speed and this boat is very responsive on a reach. I do find her a bit sluggish downwind but we do not have a cruising spinnaker yet. I am sure that will help. Regarding the B&R rig, from what i have read, it is every bit as strong, and safe, as a rig with a back stay. But, if you ever feel it isn't going to hold up, you can always wrap the topping lift around the traveler arch for a little more security. Good luck on your search.
Greig, Absolutely do your own research and feel completely happy before you sign the check. That said, we have a H33 that i am thrilled with. My wife raced as a teen and young adult so this new boat was all about convenience. We have in mast furling with a vertical batten main, which adds some sq footage and a bit more control over the sail shape and roller furling for the jib. The cockpit is good size and very comfortable, however the cushions are essential. We feel the interior is the best of the midsize boats with plenty of space in the main salon for guests, a full galley, a full size v-berth and a full size aft cabin. We are cruisers, we don't race her, but we do like to sail at a reasonable speed and this boat is very responsive on a reach. I do find her a bit sluggish downwind but we do not have a cruising spinnaker yet. I am sure that will help. Regarding the B&R rig, from what i have read, it is every bit as strong, and safe, as a rig with a back stay. But, if you ever feel it isn't going to hold up, you can always wrap the topping lift around the traveler arch for a little more security. Good luck on your search.
356 - Great boat
Greig, the 356 is a great boat. I've looked at many many boats and the 356 had all that I was looking for in the price range I could afford (or willing to pay). I have no problem keeping up and passing many catalinas or Benes in the same size range. I do have the inmast which is great when you are short handed and when the time comes will probably add a cruising chute and vertical battens to the main. We have been out in 30-45 knots of wind and she handle just fine. We ahve also done 14 days straight on her (4 of us and a small dog) an dthe accomidations were good. Tim
Greig, the 356 is a great boat. I've looked at many many boats and the 356 had all that I was looking for in the price range I could afford (or willing to pay). I have no problem keeping up and passing many catalinas or Benes in the same size range. I do have the inmast which is great when you are short handed and when the time comes will probably add a cruising chute and vertical battens to the main. We have been out in 30-45 knots of wind and she handle just fine. We ahve also done 14 days straight on her (4 of us and a small dog) an dthe accomidations were good. Tim
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