Mounting midship cleats, guidance on orientation

[williamtl]

I’ve wanted midship cleats for a long time because of the flexibility they provide. Cleats are made for sheer forces from what I understand. In other words, forces should be perpendicular to the bolts. That would lead me to mount them like this:


However, that is going to require that I build up a flat surface to keep it from rocking.

Alternatively, I could mount them like this:

Given that the majority use is for spring lines, it comes close to the correct sheer, however there will be some lift as well as the boat pulls awaY from the dock.

Looking for arguments and suggestions for either orientation.

 

[Ted]

I have a couple of questions for you. Can you install a backing plate or some large washers on the nut side of the mounting bolts? Is the fiberglass strong enough to take the anticipated loads? I would agree with you that photo 1 is the preferred location but I wouldn't rule out photo 2 if the fiberglass was thick and you have access for a backing plate. The shape of the area where you are planning to install the cleats will be stronger than if it was mounted on a large flat surface.

 

[dlochner]

What is the toe rail made of, i.e., is there a piece of wood inside the toe rail or is it hollow?

Assuming the toe rail is cored with wood, I'd opt for the second mounting, on the side of the toe rail. there is better support for the base of the cleat and it seems to be more out of the way.

Supporting the base is important. There will be some athwartship forces applied to the cleat even when used as as spring line. The entire base of the cleat needs to be support otherwise the leverage from the sidewards force will eventually damage the mounting and it will leak or rip out.

 

[rgranger]

Mac's are not cored. They are simple, thin fiberglass. You will need a backing plate.

You said spring lines ... I get it. I"ve thought about a mid-ship cleat but don't want one more thing on my deck to trip on....you will catch your toes on that cleat. What about this style?

I think these will look nicer and be out of the way when you are not using them.
This one in the pic above is $12 on eBay

The SBO store also has something similar

For a bit more money.... the forum store also sells 8" cleats if you want something more substantial.

 

[Meriachee]

Its not like theres a walkway on the Mac anyway. Mount them on the side, large backing washers and be done with it. A boat as light as a 26 csd isnt ever going to see any kind if substantial loading anyway.

 

[JamesG161]

The use of your midships cleat can be used for simple docking, loading and taking on crew.

As for shear loads, I would not depend on them for spring lines, even with backing plates.

Why not?

The backing plates must be wide, long and reinforced to spread full loads.

Do you know what those loads are?
Jim...

 

[Don S/V ILLusion]

Having had a 27 ft boat once, we simply ran spring lines from the forward and aft cleats obviating the need for midship ones and it seemed to work well.

 

[Stu Jackson]

Don's idea is good. On our C25 we used to use the winches to spring from.

 

[williamtl]

I have a couple of questions for you. Can you install a backing plate or some large washers on the nut side of the mounting bolts? Is the fiberglass strong enough to take the anticipated loads?

Yes to backing plates. I’ve actually remounted all the originals with backing plates, some did not even have washers.

In this spot it appears to be over a 1/2” of thickness. Not sure how much of that is fiberglass. This should be at least as strong as the location of the forward 3 cleats that is about 1/4.

Typically Macs are not cored, but I have found areas with balsa in them.

Thanks for the input

 

[williamtl]

What is the toe rail made of, i.e., is there a piece of wood inside the toe rail or is it hollow?

Assuming the toe rail is cored with wood, I'd opt for the second mounting, on the side of the toe rail. there is better support for the base of the cleat and it seems to be more out of the way.

Supporting the base is important. There will be some athwartship forces applied to the cleat even when used as as spring line. The entire base of the cleat needs to be support otherwise the leverage from the sidewards force will eventually damage the mounting and it will leak or rip out.

I’m not expecting to find any core in this section.

Having to support the base is my concern with the first option. Have to either build something up, or bring it inboard were it really does become a toe magnet.

Thanks!

 

[williamtl]

The backing plates must be wide, long and reinforced to spread full loads.

Do you know what those loads are?
Jim...

I have not calculated the loads. The plates I used for the others is 1/8” stainless that covers the entire footprint of the cleat (not the base). Given it originally had a washer, I think i’ve Improved that several times over. Maybe I’m deluding myself.

In this area, I think the plates will have to be longer.

Thanks for the input.

 

[williamtl]

Having had a 27 ft boat once, we simply ran spring lines from the forward and aft cleats obviating the need for midship ones and it seemed to work well.

I’ve done this on my Mac, but the lines have to wrap around the hull trapping dirt and generally making a mess. At least they did in my last slip. This also put multiple lines on one or more cleats which I didn’t like.

I’ve now got a slip off of Sarasota Bay, Fl if I can ever get back down there (current projection is right in the middle of hurricane season, so that’s probably a non starter). Net, there are many more situations to take account of than in my inland lake (e.g. tides).

 

[williamtl]

Mac's are not cored.

I"ve thought about a mid-ship cleat but don't want one more thing on my deck to trip on....you will catch your toes on that cleat.
[/QUOTE

I think I mentioned earlier that I have found coring in the section in front of the winch on the starboard side.

I thought about the trip hazard. I’m using this to de clutter as I’m mounting them so I can use them for the baby stays that are only used for raising lowering the mast. This way I can remove both plates were they are attached now.

 

[williamtl]

Thanks all for the great responses! I’ll post a picture or two when I get them mounted. I’m going to go with the “side” mount. It will have the added benefit of being more sheer oriented for the mast raising/lowering. I am also going to expand the backing plate if the space allows it.

 

[Sailfanatic]

Unless you can be certain that this location is free and clear of your jib sheets, I would not use that open horn style of cleat. much better to use folding cleats and a lid hanging sheets on your tacks.

 

[rgranger]

I've also thought about getting a few of these.... not for spring lines but to tie bumpers... and maybe a flag halyard. I think these would make sense on a Mac 26d. The only issue I can see is to make sure they are not in a place that might catch the genoa or its sheets.

 

[Tom J]

I've also thought about getting a few of these.... not for spring lines but to tie bumpers... and maybe a flag halyard. I think these would make sense on a Mac 26d. The only issue I can see is to make sure they are not in a place that might catch the genoa or its sheets.

View attachment 177768

I use these as you suggested, on the shrouds to hang fenders and tie off flag halyards. I also have a pair on the backstays to secure my riding sail.

 

[rgranger]

I use these as you suggested, on the shrouds to hang fenders and tie off flag halyards. I also have a pair on the backstays to secure my riding sail.

Hunters don't have a backstay. They have swept back sreaders. When I anchor out... I leave my bimini up to keep the boat's arse downwind....Unless they are calling for a T-storm and then I worry it might tear up my bimi so I pack it in.

 

[rgranger]

... now that I think about it... I can imagine a few useful places for those types of cleats on my life-lines.

Yep.... goin' ta go to the SBO store and order a few right now....

 

[williamtl]

@rgranger @Tom J there is one of those on my back stay instead of a topping lift. Functional is about the nicest thing I can say about it. This is where I expect my stays to fail because to get it to stay in place you crimp or bend the stay. At least that is how mine was put on. On the other hand I’m paranoid about it breaking there so I check it every time I go out.

But, spend the same amount of money on something else from SBO if you decide not to get them!