I have recieved my ports this weekend, ans started removing the old ones. Here are a few things to watch out for: Both the haul and the cabin tops are 3/8" thick - solid fiberglass. This means two things: 1) You do not need to fill any core material when you replace the ports. 2) You need to buy an additional 5/8" teack liner for each port (you get a big discount for large quantities - ten in my case.) The existing cut out match the new cut out dimensions almost perfectly, so not too much work is needed to resize the cut outs. If you decide to install a round port near the galley, make sure to specify the right size spigot: The cabin wall is two inches thick and the regular spigot will not work. For those who think that 3/8" is "thin" I was happy to read the last question on the newfoundmetals web site: Bristols 34 (a boat built for going offshore)has a cabin thickness of 3/8", where only 1/4" is fiberglass and 1/8" is liner...
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What is the Liner for ?
Hi Olivier, Sorry for not responding to you quicker, I have been out sailing a lot
) What is the liner used for and where do you install it ? Did you order the liners from new found metals as well ? By the way, I have spongy decks on both sides just forward of the chainplates. Do you have any suggestion to fix it. I am looking for strength not necessarily esthetic finish. Thanks and good luck!
Hi Olivier, Sorry for not responding to you quicker, I have been out sailing a lot
) What is the liner used for and where do you install it ? Did you order the liners from new found metals as well ? By the way, I have spongy decks on both sides just forward of the chainplates. Do you have any suggestion to fix it. I am looking for strength not necessarily esthetic finish. Thanks and good luck!RE: More on newfound metals ports
The "wood liners" are actually called "wood spacers". There are needed if the thickness of your cabin is less than 1/2". Without them, the two parts of the ports (finish ring and spigot) will not clamp close enough to be waterproof. I will reciece the wood spacer in a day or 2, so I will know more on how things will come together then. As far as your spongy deck: from your description, it sounds as if the spongy deck area is fairly confined. It probably happened because of water running down the chainplates and into the core material. You need to do two things: first, remove the chainplates and seal the space where the core material is with an epoxy mix so no more water will no longer come in. define the area of sponginess by bouncing a screwdriver, or else, and draw its perimeter with a pencil. If it is reasonably small (a few square feet) drill a hole through the first layer of fiberglass and remove as much wet core material as possible. You can then do two things: first I would try to secure a hose (approx 2ft long) tightly into the hole and fill it with epoxy (make a mix that is as fluid as possible). Keep the upper end of the hose attached to one of the stay. Theoretically, the epoxy under pressure will then flow wherever there is a gap to be filled. If this work, this is the simplest solution, and you then only need to cover the hole with gelcoat (the hardest part of the repair may be to match the color of the gel coat). If it does not work (you may not be able to get enough pressure to fill the epoxy everywhere), you will have to drill several holes and repeat the process, or simply drill, remove core material, and fill with epoxy at several locations. One interesting thing: I found out that the core material of my boat is actually foam instead fo blasa wood (exept in the cockpit where they used balsa)! I guess this way the core will not degrade even if it gets wet! Olivier
The "wood liners" are actually called "wood spacers". There are needed if the thickness of your cabin is less than 1/2". Without them, the two parts of the ports (finish ring and spigot) will not clamp close enough to be waterproof. I will reciece the wood spacer in a day or 2, so I will know more on how things will come together then. As far as your spongy deck: from your description, it sounds as if the spongy deck area is fairly confined. It probably happened because of water running down the chainplates and into the core material. You need to do two things: first, remove the chainplates and seal the space where the core material is with an epoxy mix so no more water will no longer come in. define the area of sponginess by bouncing a screwdriver, or else, and draw its perimeter with a pencil. If it is reasonably small (a few square feet) drill a hole through the first layer of fiberglass and remove as much wet core material as possible. You can then do two things: first I would try to secure a hose (approx 2ft long) tightly into the hole and fill it with epoxy (make a mix that is as fluid as possible). Keep the upper end of the hose attached to one of the stay. Theoretically, the epoxy under pressure will then flow wherever there is a gap to be filled. If this work, this is the simplest solution, and you then only need to cover the hole with gelcoat (the hardest part of the repair may be to match the color of the gel coat). If it does not work (you may not be able to get enough pressure to fill the epoxy everywhere), you will have to drill several holes and repeat the process, or simply drill, remove core material, and fill with epoxy at several locations. One interesting thing: I found out that the core material of my boat is actually foam instead fo blasa wood (exept in the cockpit where they used balsa)! I guess this way the core will not degrade even if it gets wet! Olivier
Sounds like a plan
Hi Olivier, That is about the plan that I had for fixing the spongy deck areas. It looks liked my boat was repaired in areas in this manner already. I read somewhere that if the core was just wet that I could pressure inject acetone to dry the core and then pressure or vacuum-bag inject the epoxy to relaminate the outer shell to the core. What do you think? I will hold back on the ports until you have installed yours. I want to know if it is worth it. Do you think that the wood spacer will reduce the strength or watertightness of the ports in any way? Francois
Hi Olivier, That is about the plan that I had for fixing the spongy deck areas. It looks liked my boat was repaired in areas in this manner already. I read somewhere that if the core was just wet that I could pressure inject acetone to dry the core and then pressure or vacuum-bag inject the epoxy to relaminate the outer shell to the core. What do you think? I will hold back on the ports until you have installed yours. I want to know if it is worth it. Do you think that the wood spacer will reduce the strength or watertightness of the ports in any way? Francois
RE: Sounds like a plan
If your o'day was built like mine - that is with foam core - the core could only be wet. It is also possible that the core may not be wet and that all you have is a gap between the core and the layers of fiberglass. I have repaired two cracks near the hatch (I believe they got created by freezing water) and found out that the core material was wet - as expected - but that the foam was still well bounded to the glass... I mean than in theory, if the glue is water resistant and the core cannot decay, the only effect that a wet core may have is to add weight at deck level. When you say your deck is spongy, what do you mean? is your deck bouncy or does it just sound different when you hit is with a tool? About chasing the water away by pressure injecting acetone: May be. I have a hard time imagining creating enough pressure with the acetone as to push water away through another hole. It may be possible if there is enough flow: You could sort of "flush out" all the water. What about just dilling a hole on a low point from under the deck? If water is free to move it should run out. May be you could even help the water using an air pump with an air needle inserted via a very small hole. Do you need to dry out the core before injecting the epoxy? I'd say you need to make sure the "free water" (the one surrounding the foam fibers and that is free to float)is out. I doubt that the core fibers themselves are wet for they probably used closed cell foam. If so, you would only need to drain the "free water" About the wood spacers for the ports: They act as a bearing surface for the edge of the spigot an are located on the exterior of the spigot. If anything they will help stiffening the hull around the ports. I am quite certain that they will not affect the waterproofness of the ports. Also, check out the Official O'day Web page: I have seen some SS ports for $99 on clearance. I know nothing about them,though.
If your o'day was built like mine - that is with foam core - the core could only be wet. It is also possible that the core may not be wet and that all you have is a gap between the core and the layers of fiberglass. I have repaired two cracks near the hatch (I believe they got created by freezing water) and found out that the core material was wet - as expected - but that the foam was still well bounded to the glass... I mean than in theory, if the glue is water resistant and the core cannot decay, the only effect that a wet core may have is to add weight at deck level. When you say your deck is spongy, what do you mean? is your deck bouncy or does it just sound different when you hit is with a tool? About chasing the water away by pressure injecting acetone: May be. I have a hard time imagining creating enough pressure with the acetone as to push water away through another hole. It may be possible if there is enough flow: You could sort of "flush out" all the water. What about just dilling a hole on a low point from under the deck? If water is free to move it should run out. May be you could even help the water using an air pump with an air needle inserted via a very small hole. Do you need to dry out the core before injecting the epoxy? I'd say you need to make sure the "free water" (the one surrounding the foam fibers and that is free to float)is out. I doubt that the core fibers themselves are wet for they probably used closed cell foam. If so, you would only need to drain the "free water" About the wood spacers for the ports: They act as a bearing surface for the edge of the spigot an are located on the exterior of the spigot. If anything they will help stiffening the hull around the ports. I am quite certain that they will not affect the waterproofness of the ports. Also, check out the Official O'day Web page: I have seen some SS ports for $99 on clearance. I know nothing about them,though.
I will look and come back to you
Thanks Olivier, I will look at the deck and core and find out where I stand. The deck is actually soft under the foot when you put weight on it which can mean core deterioration or just delamination and the bounce is caused by the upper layer of laminate springing back. I am not sure. Whaterver I find there will be replace by epoxy for sure. I just got some really amazing and cheap davits for my dinghy, check them out at www.marinox.net Ciao, Francois
Thanks Olivier, I will look at the deck and core and find out where I stand. The deck is actually soft under the foot when you put weight on it which can mean core deterioration or just delamination and the bounce is caused by the upper layer of laminate springing back. I am not sure. Whaterver I find there will be replace by epoxy for sure. I just got some really amazing and cheap davits for my dinghy, check them out at www.marinox.net Ciao, Francois
Called DR
Hi Olivier, I called DRMarine and the ports are not for our boat so he didn't recommend them. When I said that I wanted to upgrade to SS, he seemed a little perplexed... I guess that isn't the standard setup for our boat. Are you sure that the teak goes outside on the ports? Won't that increase the chances of leaks by having a sandwiched structure exposed to the elements. Can the teak be put inside instead? I would much prefer the bonding to be direct outside the hull. Let me know how it goes! Francois Starshine III
Hi Olivier, I called DRMarine and the ports are not for our boat so he didn't recommend them. When I said that I wanted to upgrade to SS, he seemed a little perplexed... I guess that isn't the standard setup for our boat. Are you sure that the teak goes outside on the ports? Won't that increase the chances of leaks by having a sandwiched structure exposed to the elements. Can the teak be put inside instead? I would much prefer the bonding to be direct outside the hull. Let me know how it goes! Francois Starshine III
Ports
May be I did not explain myself well with the wood spacers: They are placed inside the hull of the boat, but on the exterior of the spigot - between the bearing flange of the spigot and the hull. The spigot is the male portion of the port that is inserted from inside the boat. The finish ring the the female part that is installed from the outside. Once you clamp the two together you don't see any wood. I will send a photo as soon as I get the spacers (may be this weekend). While I was at it removeing the old ports, I decided to test them. I weigh 150 lbf. Me stepping on them opens up a gap. A few strong strokes with my feet shuttered the plastic. On Tuesday I went sailing on a Cal 40 that had its ignition system covered with a plastic porthole. I thought that was a good idea, so one of my old port will find its way there. Any idea of what to do with the other ones? Anybody out there in need of old plastic ports?!
May be I did not explain myself well with the wood spacers: They are placed inside the hull of the boat, but on the exterior of the spigot - between the bearing flange of the spigot and the hull. The spigot is the male portion of the port that is inserted from inside the boat. The finish ring the the female part that is installed from the outside. Once you clamp the two together you don't see any wood. I will send a photo as soon as I get the spacers (may be this weekend). While I was at it removeing the old ports, I decided to test them. I weigh 150 lbf. Me stepping on them opens up a gap. A few strong strokes with my feet shuttered the plastic. On Tuesday I went sailing on a Cal 40 that had its ignition system covered with a plastic porthole. I thought that was a good idea, so one of my old port will find its way there. Any idea of what to do with the other ones? Anybody out there in need of old plastic ports?!
Can I Bud in Guys?
I have been following your exchanges over the year on your respective OD 37's. It has been enlightning, as I am a fan of the 37 and am intersted in learning about the boat. Olivier, how did you find out that your core material was foam? Airex foam I assume? This is the first time I have heard that the factory switched from balsa and plywood to a foam core. Can't remember what year your boat is but I was wondering if it was a newer model and the factory switched to foam in the latter designs? Could it be that Francois has balsa and is "mushy" because it's wet and rotted, wheras you have foam? Your right about dry delamination, where the core seperates from the skin. Often diagnosed by the crackling and popping sound when walked on. This can be more easily solved than wet delamination by injecting epoxy under the skin and placing heavy weights on top to reglue the core. Francois, I would get some expert advise on the rot you have in your core material. Your location ahead of the chainplates is a classic spot for water ingress into the core. You can repair the damaged core yourself and is a fairly straight forward repair if it's not too extensive. Start at west systems internet site and buy a good reference book, like Don Casey's works on this type of repair. Don
I have been following your exchanges over the year on your respective OD 37's. It has been enlightning, as I am a fan of the 37 and am intersted in learning about the boat. Olivier, how did you find out that your core material was foam? Airex foam I assume? This is the first time I have heard that the factory switched from balsa and plywood to a foam core. Can't remember what year your boat is but I was wondering if it was a newer model and the factory switched to foam in the latter designs? Could it be that Francois has balsa and is "mushy" because it's wet and rotted, wheras you have foam? Your right about dry delamination, where the core seperates from the skin. Often diagnosed by the crackling and popping sound when walked on. This can be more easily solved than wet delamination by injecting epoxy under the skin and placing heavy weights on top to reglue the core. Francois, I would get some expert advise on the rot you have in your core material. Your location ahead of the chainplates is a classic spot for water ingress into the core. You can repair the damaged core yourself and is a fairly straight forward repair if it's not too extensive. Start at west systems internet site and buy a good reference book, like Don Casey's works on this type of repair. Don
Re: Ports
Oh, Sorry, I didn understand the first time. Now I get it. Must be the sun hitting too hard on the nogin ;-) I will be going through with the purchase of the ports in the next two weeks and will get the spacers as well. Thanks and I will keep you informed on my progress. Good luck putting your ports in! Francois Starshine III
Oh, Sorry, I didn understand the first time. Now I get it. Must be the sun hitting too hard on the nogin ;-) I will be going through with the purchase of the ports in the next two weeks and will get the spacers as well. Thanks and I will keep you informed on my progress. Good luck putting your ports in! Francois Starshine III
Budding in appreciated...
Hi there Don, I have not yet looked in depth at the core issue since my ports are currently ruining my boat with the leaking. It rained hard this weekend and the water seems to be coming from the outside frame area not the seal on the spigot. Also, the water seems to have found its way to old light sockets that were screwed on the top of the storage area below the ports. Two of my main cabin ports are leaking badly this way (I actually needed to put a cup under the flow and it filled twice in an evening. This may also be a source of the water attacking my deck. I have the west system book and want to get Don Casey's book. From what I see, I will probably use my dremel tool to cut a square area of the upper laminate of the non-skid deck over 5 feet by one foot and remove the upper laminate. I will then dry or replace the balsa core (mine should also be balsa. I don't know how come olivier's boat is foam. However, the balsa can look a little like foam from the side if it has been water damaged??? My hatch looks like that a bit). After considering the area of damage. I don't think that simple drilling and filling will work. My deck hardware may also be a source of water in the deck. Olivier...How does your genoa rail drain? Mine, seems to keep water on the inside (between the rail and the cockpit coaming). I was planning to drill the under side of the rail right in front of the stanchion (the lowest point on the rail), to let the water flow through. Thanks for the info and input! Will keep in touch. Francois Starshine III
Hi there Don, I have not yet looked in depth at the core issue since my ports are currently ruining my boat with the leaking. It rained hard this weekend and the water seems to be coming from the outside frame area not the seal on the spigot. Also, the water seems to have found its way to old light sockets that were screwed on the top of the storage area below the ports. Two of my main cabin ports are leaking badly this way (I actually needed to put a cup under the flow and it filled twice in an evening. This may also be a source of the water attacking my deck. I have the west system book and want to get Don Casey's book. From what I see, I will probably use my dremel tool to cut a square area of the upper laminate of the non-skid deck over 5 feet by one foot and remove the upper laminate. I will then dry or replace the balsa core (mine should also be balsa. I don't know how come olivier's boat is foam. However, the balsa can look a little like foam from the side if it has been water damaged??? My hatch looks like that a bit). After considering the area of damage. I don't think that simple drilling and filling will work. My deck hardware may also be a source of water in the deck. Olivier...How does your genoa rail drain? Mine, seems to keep water on the inside (between the rail and the cockpit coaming). I was planning to drill the under side of the rail right in front of the stanchion (the lowest point on the rail), to let the water flow through. Thanks for the info and input! Will keep in touch. Francois Starshine III
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