Does anyone know what type of 54-foot boat they were on? I am talking about the missing boat that was en route from St. Thomas to Annapolis, and is missing at sea in waves that were described as possibly 50-feet high at their peaks. Could most 54-foot boats designed for blue water cruising handle that, or were they just screwed by getting caught in a sub-tropical storm?
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I have experienced 20-30 foot waves
I have experienced 20-30 foot waves in 70mph winds in my Cheoy Lee Clipper 33. It handled these seas very well and was never a worry. This was also off of Cape Hatteras returning from Bermuda. I would think a 54 foot boat could survive these conditions if a seaworthy design. The crew is always the limiting factor and some are so afraid they have a hard time functioning. Seasickness is very much a serious problem in these conditions. The boat is found most of the time in fairly good condition after crews are removed by a rescue. We have a pilot locally who makes money searching for these boats after a coast guard rescue. He is paid mostly by the insurance companies. In this case it has been some time and the epirb was set off so it could have gone down. Don't know the type of boat but at 54 feet most all are seaworthy. We should pray it is still afloat. Weather is very good off North Carolina today.
I have experienced 20-30 foot waves in 70mph winds in my Cheoy Lee Clipper 33. It handled these seas very well and was never a worry. This was also off of Cape Hatteras returning from Bermuda. I would think a 54 foot boat could survive these conditions if a seaworthy design. The crew is always the limiting factor and some are so afraid they have a hard time functioning. Seasickness is very much a serious problem in these conditions. The boat is found most of the time in fairly good condition after crews are removed by a rescue. We have a pilot locally who makes money searching for these boats after a coast guard rescue. He is paid mostly by the insurance companies. In this case it has been some time and the epirb was set off so it could have gone down. Don't know the type of boat but at 54 feet most all are seaworthy. We should pray it is still afloat. Weather is very good off North Carolina today.
30 FOOT WAVES
I have experienced 30 foot seas and 50 mile-per-hour winds when coming back from Catalina in Santa Anna wind conditions. And I was in my 24' Windrose sailboat. We just dropped our genoa and used the full mail (no reefing points)for two hours while being laid flat on the water twice. The Coast Guard helicopter was rescuing people off a 30' powerboat and a 40' sailboat within a mile of our position as we watched. It was uncomfortable and wet but was a blast. All this was at a time we had only a compass. When we got into the Long Beach Alamitos Bay and went into the harbor masters office they knew nothing about the storm and didn't even have a small craft flag up. It's not something I would like to repeat but shows that with a small sailboat and good helmsman you can survive it. I even wrote an article about it which will be included in my future book, "Blue Water, Red Blood." Novelman
I have experienced 30 foot seas and 50 mile-per-hour winds when coming back from Catalina in Santa Anna wind conditions. And I was in my 24' Windrose sailboat. We just dropped our genoa and used the full mail (no reefing points)for two hours while being laid flat on the water twice. The Coast Guard helicopter was rescuing people off a 30' powerboat and a 40' sailboat within a mile of our position as we watched. It was uncomfortable and wet but was a blast. All this was at a time we had only a compass. When we got into the Long Beach Alamitos Bay and went into the harbor masters office they knew nothing about the storm and didn't even have a small craft flag up. It's not something I would like to repeat but shows that with a small sailboat and good helmsman you can survive it. I even wrote an article about it which will be included in my future book, "Blue Water, Red Blood." Novelman
Anything over 20 ft. can be a real ...
problem to steer broach free at night when the wind kicks up and the autohelm isn't working ... You have to steer to every wave ... if you can see it. Once the wind kicks up, you are talking some sort of sea anchor to keep the bow to the waves. And the action on the boat for seniors can be damaging physically quite quickly. Hey ... 18 year old soccer player/sailers would love it. It's one thing to do this for a couple of hours during daylight ... another to have to do it all night when the crew is already exhausted. The scary part is coming up the companionway and looking at this wall of water that seems higher than the boat's mast. Vic "Seven" during one trip north on a 44 ft Kalik.
problem to steer broach free at night when the wind kicks up and the autohelm isn't working ... You have to steer to every wave ... if you can see it. Once the wind kicks up, you are talking some sort of sea anchor to keep the bow to the waves. And the action on the boat for seniors can be damaging physically quite quickly. Hey ... 18 year old soccer player/sailers would love it. It's one thing to do this for a couple of hours during daylight ... another to have to do it all night when the crew is already exhausted. The scary part is coming up the companionway and looking at this wall of water that seems higher than the boat's mast. Vic "Seven" during one trip north on a 44 ft Kalik.
Never been in 50'
waves (and hope not to) - I suspect that they are always bad news. However, waves have several properties and amplitude is only one of them. I have been in 20' swells on a 34' boat and it was both easy and fun (for awhile). I have also been in confused, high frequency, steep faced, breaking 4 footers on the same boat, and it was terrifying. At one point we had seas breaking on the starboard bow and the port quarter at the same time. The boat cork screwed its way through just fine, but the crew was badly shaken.
waves (and hope not to) - I suspect that they are always bad news. However, waves have several properties and amplitude is only one of them. I have been in 20' swells on a 34' boat and it was both easy and fun (for awhile). I have also been in confused, high frequency, steep faced, breaking 4 footers on the same boat, and it was terrifying. At one point we had seas breaking on the starboard bow and the port quarter at the same time. The boat cork screwed its way through just fine, but the crew was badly shaken.
The crew
The reports are that the two guys are 34 and 39 years old, but their two lady friends are not necessarily experienced sailors at all. We are probably talking about two guys trying to handle a 54-foot boat without much strong help. I also suspect that the boat went down, because it hasn't been spotted despite a very comprehensive search.
The reports are that the two guys are 34 and 39 years old, but their two lady friends are not necessarily experienced sailors at all. We are probably talking about two guys trying to handle a 54-foot boat without much strong help. I also suspect that the boat went down, because it hasn't been spotted despite a very comprehensive search.
54 ft
Hi, the boat is/was a 54ft Little Harbor brand sailboat named "Flying Colors". Big picture here of what I have good reason to believe is the boat in the BVI: http://bp1.blogger.com/_pxmirtv3t_M/Rh03k3f728I/AAAAAAAAAZ4/LEBEEuszF5Y/s1600-h/dscf4494.jpg link is from a private trip log: http://spindrift-cruising-logs.blogspot.com/ From: http://www.piersystem.com/go/doc/651/155936/ Missing are Patrick Topping, 39, the master of the ship; Jason Franks, 34; Rhiannon Borisoff, 22; and Christine Grinavic. Topping and Franks are both experienced sailors, both having their captain's licenses.
Hi, the boat is/was a 54ft Little Harbor brand sailboat named "Flying Colors". Big picture here of what I have good reason to believe is the boat in the BVI: http://bp1.blogger.com/_pxmirtv3t_M/Rh03k3f728I/AAAAAAAAAZ4/LEBEEuszF5Y/s1600-h/dscf4494.jpg link is from a private trip log: http://spindrift-cruising-logs.blogspot.com/ From: http://www.piersystem.com/go/doc/651/155936/ Missing are Patrick Topping, 39, the master of the ship; Jason Franks, 34; Rhiannon Borisoff, 22; and Christine Grinavic. Topping and Franks are both experienced sailors, both having their captain's licenses.
Heard about it today
This is interesting because I just got back from a day sailing around St. Augustine and I heard several USCG calls about the "Flying Colors" ship and then heard a sighting of it three hours prior passing Daytona heading north.... I don't know if that was true or not but it is interesting to hear about a boat going missing then come to the Macgregor site later on and read about it!
This is interesting because I just got back from a day sailing around St. Augustine and I heard several USCG calls about the "Flying Colors" ship and then heard a sighting of it three hours prior passing Daytona heading north.... I don't know if that was true or not but it is interesting to hear about a boat going missing then come to the Macgregor site later on and read about it!
Of course 50 foot waves can sink a 54 footer
Pretty much anything can happen in those ocnditions. Once the top of a wave breaks, if the tons of cascading water catch a yacht, she can easily be overcome regardless of crew ability or soundness of the yacht. A good read of what these conditions can do is Heavy Weather Sailing by Alder Coles.
Pretty much anything can happen in those ocnditions. Once the top of a wave breaks, if the tons of cascading water catch a yacht, she can easily be overcome regardless of crew ability or soundness of the yacht. A good read of what these conditions can do is Heavy Weather Sailing by Alder Coles.
A very important read for these conditions is
"Storm Tactics" by Lyn and Larry Pardey. They have defined the hows, whys, and when certain methods work, what can go wrong with them and generally the preparedness of the boat and the crew. They have tested all of the methods that are detailed in their book in real storm conditions.
"Storm Tactics" by Lyn and Larry Pardey. They have defined the hows, whys, and when certain methods work, what can go wrong with them and generally the preparedness of the boat and the crew. They have tested all of the methods that are detailed in their book in real storm conditions.
Interestingly...
Flying Colors remains missing but the CG has picked up debris and life rafts from the other three sailboats they rescued crew from on Sunday/Monday in the same area. Waves off Hatteras were 35ft. and winds were 45k sustained with gusts to 75mph in the Gulf Stream. A container ship lost a couple of dozen containers overboard just to make things more interesting! Today...a 60'+ boat "Illusion" washed up on the beach in NC after crew was pulled off on Monday. Another boat is stronger than crew story perhaps BUT the crew... 1. Was on FIRST passage with a new boat from the Bahamas. 2. Claimed to be caught by surprie by the intensity of the storm. 3. Made it to within 40 miles of Beaufort to put in but engine failed so they headed back to sea rather than risk a lee shore. 4. At sea...they got out into the conditions noted above under sail and then lost their steering. Then they pushed the Epirb button. Lots of stuff for armchair quarterbacks to discuss here. My own big takeaway is ...Never buy a "new" boat and go on a passage without first having the tanks and fuel scrubbed and ALWAYS carry plenty of spare racors and know how to install and bleed the system before you leave on a passage. I would also point out that 35 foot waves driven by a norther in the gulf stream are not much like 35 footers elsewhere except that they are made out of water too.
Flying Colors remains missing but the CG has picked up debris and life rafts from the other three sailboats they rescued crew from on Sunday/Monday in the same area. Waves off Hatteras were 35ft. and winds were 45k sustained with gusts to 75mph in the Gulf Stream. A container ship lost a couple of dozen containers overboard just to make things more interesting! Today...a 60'+ boat "Illusion" washed up on the beach in NC after crew was pulled off on Monday. Another boat is stronger than crew story perhaps BUT the crew... 1. Was on FIRST passage with a new boat from the Bahamas. 2. Claimed to be caught by surprie by the intensity of the storm. 3. Made it to within 40 miles of Beaufort to put in but engine failed so they headed back to sea rather than risk a lee shore. 4. At sea...they got out into the conditions noted above under sail and then lost their steering. Then they pushed the Epirb button. Lots of stuff for armchair quarterbacks to discuss here. My own big takeaway is ...Never buy a "new" boat and go on a passage without first having the tanks and fuel scrubbed and ALWAYS carry plenty of spare racors and know how to install and bleed the system before you leave on a passage. I would also point out that 35 foot waves driven by a norther in the gulf stream are not much like 35 footers elsewhere except that they are made out of water too.
I suspect that those of us whom have been in those
conditions are not saying much. No need to quarterback.
conditions are not saying much. No need to quarterback.
Owner speaks
The owner has been quoted as saying this particular boat had made the passage between Maryland and St. Thomas 15 times previously. I still question that two able-bodied crewmen are enough for a 54-foot boat in a big storm. Whether the boat was adequately crewed for that situation could depend on how experienced and able the two women were. The other news is that they are expanding the search to the east and south, on the theory that they may have turned away from the storm, and then lost their mast and radio gear. If so, they could be afloat and drifting. They have found remnants of gear from three other sailboats from which rescues were performed after the storm, but nothing has been seen from the Flying Colours. If they are never found, we are going to have to assume that something catastrophic sunk them suddenly.
The owner has been quoted as saying this particular boat had made the passage between Maryland and St. Thomas 15 times previously. I still question that two able-bodied crewmen are enough for a 54-foot boat in a big storm. Whether the boat was adequately crewed for that situation could depend on how experienced and able the two women were. The other news is that they are expanding the search to the east and south, on the theory that they may have turned away from the storm, and then lost their mast and radio gear. If so, they could be afloat and drifting. They have found remnants of gear from three other sailboats from which rescues were performed after the storm, but nothing has been seen from the Flying Colours. If they are never found, we are going to have to assume that something catastrophic sunk them suddenly.
Flying Colors....
search was suspended by the Coast Guard today after one week. Hope remains but it is growing dim. One of the other boats (64' illusion) where crew was lifted off was found on a North Carolina beach yesterday.
search was suspended by the Coast Guard today after one week. Hope remains but it is growing dim. One of the other boats (64' illusion) where crew was lifted off was found on a North Carolina beach yesterday.
Flying Colors - a theory I have
Could it be possible that Flying Colors was run over somehow? The EPIRB went off and stayed on for a few hours before stopping. Possibly the boat was run over then eventually sank along with all belongings, as well as the EPIRB.
Could it be possible that Flying Colors was run over somehow? The EPIRB went off and stayed on for a few hours before stopping. Possibly the boat was run over then eventually sank along with all belongings, as well as the EPIRB.
Flying Colors - a theory I have
Could it be possible that Flying Colors was run over somehow? The EPIRB went off and stayed on for a few hours before stopping. Possibly the boat was run over then eventually sank along with all belongings, as well as the EPIRB.
Could it be possible that Flying Colors was run over somehow? The EPIRB went off and stayed on for a few hours before stopping. Possibly the boat was run over then eventually sank along with all belongings, as well as the EPIRB.
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