Greetings, Has anyone added mid-ship (docking)cleats on their H33. I'm concerned about strength of the deck and interference with the Jib sheets, etc. The reason I am considering these cleats is the way dock pilings are arranged. Between the chainplate/shrouds seems best for interference but...? My gut feeling is this may be a bad idea. Any ideas are appreciated. Eddie Brennan SV OLTOTSY
- Status
- Not open for further replies.
T
Tom FitzGibbon
Spring Cleats
Eddie, There's a post from a couple of days ago in the Ask All Sailors forum titled "Spring Cleat Opinion." (See link below.) I replied with a description of the folding spring cleats I installed amidships on my '79 H33. If it will help, let me know and I'll post some pictures. Tom FitzGibbon S/V Plan B
Eddie, There's a post from a couple of days ago in the Ask All Sailors forum titled "Spring Cleat Opinion." (See link below.) I replied with a description of the folding spring cleats I installed amidships on my '79 H33. If it will help, let me know and I'll post some pictures. Tom FitzGibbon S/V Plan B
G
Garry Elmer
Amidship's cleat
Our boat had a fold-down cleat just aft of the chain plates. It appears to a simple rig. If one didn't know what it was in the store it would almost look like a fold down handle for a large case or trunk. Anyway, we use it all the time and it appear that the desk is no worse for the wear. Just 4 large washers behind the 4 bolts, no backing plate. Good luck! Garry
Our boat had a fold-down cleat just aft of the chain plates. It appears to a simple rig. If one didn't know what it was in the store it would almost look like a fold down handle for a large case or trunk. Anyway, we use it all the time and it appear that the desk is no worse for the wear. Just 4 large washers behind the 4 bolts, no backing plate. Good luck! Garry
E
Ed Schenck
Spring line forces.
I have seen those other posts about midship cleats. Two or three people have been creative in staying OFF of the toerail and I wonder why? Many of us use the toerail for jib and spinnaker blocks. Are the spring line forces too much for the toerail? I like the solution of fashioning a plate with holes that match the toerail bolts, six inches on my H37C. Then mount your favorite cleat to that plate and you have a substantial through the deck mount.
I have seen those other posts about midship cleats. Two or three people have been creative in staying OFF of the toerail and I wonder why? Many of us use the toerail for jib and spinnaker blocks. Are the spring line forces too much for the toerail? I like the solution of fashioning a plate with holes that match the toerail bolts, six inches on my H37C. Then mount your favorite cleat to that plate and you have a substantial through the deck mount.
S
steven f.
several on mine
I bought my H33 with two additional cleats already on her. They were just aft of the chain plates. These have not been in the way of anything I've done, I haven't even kicked one yet while stumbling around the deck at night. I added two additional SS cleats up front just aft of the anchor locker next to the toe rail on each side. These are for numerous reasons, the main reason is for anchoring with multiple anchors. I found out (by experience) that one large cleat on the bow is not enough for my anchoring style. I use the large cleat for the main anchor and the slightly smaller ones for either an additional anchor or spring lines. I feel it better not to rely on a single piece of deck hardware but rather have a backup just in case one should fail. When setting several anchors it also becomes necessary to adjust one or another line,if that line is under one or more lines already tied with tension on them it can be a challange. Anyway, I have several additional cleats on my boat and have had no problems. Just make sure you mount them correctly with a solid backing plate and correct sized hardware for the cleat (and a correctly sized cleat for its intended job).
I bought my H33 with two additional cleats already on her. They were just aft of the chain plates. These have not been in the way of anything I've done, I haven't even kicked one yet while stumbling around the deck at night. I added two additional SS cleats up front just aft of the anchor locker next to the toe rail on each side. These are for numerous reasons, the main reason is for anchoring with multiple anchors. I found out (by experience) that one large cleat on the bow is not enough for my anchoring style. I use the large cleat for the main anchor and the slightly smaller ones for either an additional anchor or spring lines. I feel it better not to rely on a single piece of deck hardware but rather have a backup just in case one should fail. When setting several anchors it also becomes necessary to adjust one or another line,if that line is under one or more lines already tied with tension on them it can be a challange. Anyway, I have several additional cleats on my boat and have had no problems. Just make sure you mount them correctly with a solid backing plate and correct sized hardware for the cleat (and a correctly sized cleat for its intended job).
T
Tim Schaaf
Agree with Ed
The toerail is a very strong attachment point, and it is backed up by the hull to deck joint, also very strong. If your backstays are like mine, they are attached to u-bolts that are backed by large washers, under the hull-deck joint, under the toerail. And the loads on the rig are way higher than for a spring line. Using the toerail also eliminates the chance of compromising the balsa core in the deck, through water penetration, crushing or whatever. Of course, if you need to move dock lines around, you can also just run the lines through substantial snatch blocks, and set them exactly where you want them. In storms, I usually run some lines from the winches exactly this way, but I like the idea of the permanent ones on the toerail. On the other hand, I adjust my jib sheet blocks over a range of about fifteen holes in the rail, so I will have to think carefully about location.
The toerail is a very strong attachment point, and it is backed up by the hull to deck joint, also very strong. If your backstays are like mine, they are attached to u-bolts that are backed by large washers, under the hull-deck joint, under the toerail. And the loads on the rig are way higher than for a spring line. Using the toerail also eliminates the chance of compromising the balsa core in the deck, through water penetration, crushing or whatever. Of course, if you need to move dock lines around, you can also just run the lines through substantial snatch blocks, and set them exactly where you want them. In storms, I usually run some lines from the winches exactly this way, but I like the idea of the permanent ones on the toerail. On the other hand, I adjust my jib sheet blocks over a range of about fifteen holes in the rail, so I will have to think carefully about location.
G
Garry Elmer
Line Forces
I am no marine engineer but the it appears the forces from sheets and such are pulling up on the toe rail. This distributes the force along the rail in a certain manner. Force from a line would be pulling in the horizontal and may not distribute in a manner that the toerails are designed to take. One of my neighbors at the marina has a section missing out of his toerail from a similar attempt. I'd stay with the deck mount.
I am no marine engineer but the it appears the forces from sheets and such are pulling up on the toe rail. This distributes the force along the rail in a certain manner. Force from a line would be pulling in the horizontal and may not distribute in a manner that the toerails are designed to take. One of my neighbors at the marina has a section missing out of his toerail from a similar attempt. I'd stay with the deck mount.
E
Ed Schenck
Have to disagree.
Not a mechanical engineer either but the toerails on my H37C are going to be much stronger against a fore/aft pull. They are bolted every six inches and the force is at a right angle to probably fifteen bolts. Plus there is eight inches of heavy aluminum between the holes. The jib/genaker forces are not that much different, more forward than up.
Not a mechanical engineer either but the toerails on my H37C are going to be much stronger against a fore/aft pull. They are bolted every six inches and the force is at a right angle to probably fifteen bolts. Plus there is eight inches of heavy aluminum between the holes. The jib/genaker forces are not that much different, more forward than up.
P
Porter Claytor
Toe Rail Confabulation
Not an engineer either but totally agree with Ed. A friend put them on 44 Morgan 2 to 3 time heavier than I and rode out some tough times for years. Mounted on the toe rail the stress is down the rail not up or out which would increase the stress multifold which is what the jib does and it is designed to handle. My two cents. Porter S/V Cynara
Not an engineer either but totally agree with Ed. A friend put them on 44 Morgan 2 to 3 time heavier than I and rode out some tough times for years. Mounted on the toe rail the stress is down the rail not up or out which would increase the stress multifold which is what the jib does and it is designed to handle. My two cents. Porter S/V Cynara
- Status
- Not open for further replies.