Max winds seas for Day Sailer II
- Thread starter flagbag
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There are a wholelotta questions that you need to answer in order to answer your own question.
I have taken my 15' Harpoon center boarder out with an experienced friend for crew, with old baggy sails, full canvas, in winds of 15-20 knots, with one gust that was 25+ knots. We luffed the sails much, and hiked hard to stay level to survive that gust. After the gust, we decided that we'd done enough sailing for the day and headed in. The lake doesn't get much over 6" wind chop due to limited fetch, and usually glassy white caps forming. Bailers were open to drain the boat, crew was soaked from spray. It was a good day
On that same day, with my new sails that aren't baggy, with a reef point for the main, we might have considered tucking in the reef and continuing on. Or maybe we still would have felt we'd had enough.
So, yes, local water conditions. Local gust conditions. Your level of expertise. Level of expertise of crew. Distance to sail. Good approximations of wind conditions (is it going to build, or fall?) Amount of sailing insanity in your own head. All these types of things go into consideration.
I have taken my 15' Harpoon center boarder out with an experienced friend for crew, with old baggy sails, full canvas, in winds of 15-20 knots, with one gust that was 25+ knots. We luffed the sails much, and hiked hard to stay level to survive that gust. After the gust, we decided that we'd done enough sailing for the day and headed in. The lake doesn't get much over 6" wind chop due to limited fetch, and usually glassy white caps forming. Bailers were open to drain the boat, crew was soaked from spray. It was a good day
On that same day, with my new sails that aren't baggy, with a reef point for the main, we might have considered tucking in the reef and continuing on. Or maybe we still would have felt we'd had enough.
So, yes, local water conditions. Local gust conditions. Your level of expertise. Level of expertise of crew. Distance to sail. Good approximations of wind conditions (is it going to build, or fall?) Amount of sailing insanity in your own head. All these types of things go into consideration.
Thanks.. I admire your style & appreciate the thoughts.. I am newbie at sail. Must see about learning abt reefing, if possible. Surprised the wind needn't be real hard for concern. Again thanks B
Flagbag,
I sail solo most of the time and I draw the line around 20 knots. I can comfortable manage my DS II with a single or double reef in the main and lower the jib if I need to reduce sail further. I've had the boat in steady 20 w/gusts to 30 with experienced crew and it did fine, but by myself I'd never attempt that. Keep in mind also that a capsize in a DS is usually non recoverable; you have to tow the boat to shore to bail it out.
I sail solo most of the time and I draw the line around 20 knots. I can comfortable manage my DS II with a single or double reef in the main and lower the jib if I need to reduce sail further. I've had the boat in steady 20 w/gusts to 30 with experienced crew and it did fine, but by myself I'd never attempt that. Keep in mind also that a capsize in a DS is usually non recoverable; you have to tow the boat to shore to bail it out.
Flagbag, Capn Bucky's excellent real world experiences in his Daysailer, compared with your newbie status and lack of experience, point to you staying in if the winds start to get close to 15 knots.
This past Sunday we had a windy day, winds in the 15 knot range with gusts. A guy took his 2 small kids (Wearing PFDs, good for you dad!) out in a Sunfish. They capsized, and he didn't know how to right the boat. A small powerboat was nearby, to get the kids out of the (warm) water, but a prudent measure nonetheless. I sailed around (couldn't go too slow without striking my sails…) and coached him to right the boat, douse his sail, and get it ready to be towed in. This was certainly an example of someone who should not have gone out in that boat, in those conditions. Just because "Hey, it's real windy, let's go sailing!" doesn't mean you should. On the flip side, I was wishing I was out in a Sunfish, because I would have been scooting along on plane having a ball.
You need to learn your boat in nice, manageable winds, in pleasant conditions, and slowly push the envelope. When you are totally comfortable sailing all points of sail, tacking to go upwind, gybing without fear, putting the boat wherever you want it to go under any wind direction, then you can start working up to stronger winds. A little fear and adrenaline is good for ya, but not too much! Also, by this time you should be learning about sail controls like outhaul, vang, Cunningham, and jib fairlead position, and why to adjust them the way you do (if your sails are new enough to change the sail shape, as opposed to old, soft, blown out sails.) Also, as Capn Bucky states, he knows how to tuck in reefs, drop the jib, etc, to change the amount of canvas for various conditions. Keep the dry side up!
You'll learn, and do fine. It's like walking. Couldn't do that before you crawled around a lot, could you? Get an experienced sailor to go out with you some, or join a club, and learn the ropes.
Keep having fun, it's worth it!
This past Sunday we had a windy day, winds in the 15 knot range with gusts. A guy took his 2 small kids (Wearing PFDs, good for you dad!) out in a Sunfish. They capsized, and he didn't know how to right the boat. A small powerboat was nearby, to get the kids out of the (warm) water, but a prudent measure nonetheless. I sailed around (couldn't go too slow without striking my sails…) and coached him to right the boat, douse his sail, and get it ready to be towed in. This was certainly an example of someone who should not have gone out in that boat, in those conditions. Just because "Hey, it's real windy, let's go sailing!" doesn't mean you should. On the flip side, I was wishing I was out in a Sunfish, because I would have been scooting along on plane having a ball.
You need to learn your boat in nice, manageable winds, in pleasant conditions, and slowly push the envelope. When you are totally comfortable sailing all points of sail, tacking to go upwind, gybing without fear, putting the boat wherever you want it to go under any wind direction, then you can start working up to stronger winds. A little fear and adrenaline is good for ya, but not too much! Also, by this time you should be learning about sail controls like outhaul, vang, Cunningham, and jib fairlead position, and why to adjust them the way you do (if your sails are new enough to change the sail shape, as opposed to old, soft, blown out sails.) Also, as Capn Bucky states, he knows how to tuck in reefs, drop the jib, etc, to change the amount of canvas for various conditions. Keep the dry side up!
You'll learn, and do fine. It's like walking. Couldn't do that before you crawled around a lot, could you?
Get an experienced sailor to go out with you some, or join a club, and learn the ropes. Keep having fun, it's worth it!
I would not be real comfortable out in my DS II in much over 20 knots (15 is really my comfort max). I still have the original sails from 1979 (did have a reef added in 2000) and with their age and bagginess, I limit my windy days when possible. As for sea conditions, I regularly sail through the typical 2-4' Buzzards Bay swells and the occaisional powerboat "tidal wave" without too much stress on me or the boat (the boat can take more than me!) but I still prefer calmer waves..... which brings up another point, long swells are easier to handle than short chop, and point of sail also effects that. I also have a tiller extension to allow me to sit out on hte side deck while sailing, amazing how much that helps keep her up and sailing! One HUGE bit of aditional advice, ALWAYS, and I mean, ALWAYS, keep the mainsheet in hand while sailing a Day Sailer (or any small centerboard boat), use hte supplied cam-cleat to hold the tension, but keep the sheet i nhand! That way when a gust hits, you can instantly release the sheet, spilling most of the wind and almost always avoiding a capsize (I haven't gone over yet in 18 seasons with my DS II and 7 prior seasons with a 12' Widgeon). Sailing without the jib is a good technique on windy days, just raise the CB a bit to adjust the balance between center of sail and center of CB.
Finally, my boat was upgraded from 3/32" standing rigging to 1/8" by the previous owner, this make a big difference in my confidence as well, for some reason... O'DAY used 3/32" wire on the DS II and that is borderline on too small, most owners have taken hte advice of experts and gone to 1/8" rigging (new DS IV built by Cape Cod Shipbuilding comes with 1/8" originally). Rudy at D&R uses 1/8" for the replacement standing rigging that he sells for the DS.
My rigging came from Cape Cod Shipbuilding, in 1985...still look good!
Finally, my boat was upgraded from 3/32" standing rigging to 1/8" by the previous owner, this make a big difference in my confidence as well, for some reason... O'DAY used 3/32" wire on the DS II and that is borderline on too small, most owners have taken hte advice of experts and gone to 1/8" rigging (new DS IV built by Cape Cod Shipbuilding comes with 1/8" originally). Rudy at D&R uses 1/8" for the replacement standing rigging that he sells for the DS.
My rigging came from Cape Cod Shipbuilding, in 1985...still look good!
Thanks Capn Bucky.. I will benefit from your experience... hopefully so don't have to learn the hard way!
Great info - thanks Sunbird! I must learn reefing setup & execution for DS II. Also need measure my standing rigging & learn abt it... thanks so much. Glad you & others here & helpful. Need to find some day sailers nearby.
wind
Remember- If you double the wind speed, you are getting FOUR time the force. So going from 10K to 20K wind speed is not double the force. Its four times.
Remember- If you double the wind speed, you are getting FOUR time the force. So going from 10K to 20K wind speed is not double the force. Its four times.
