Boat is a MAC 25. Mast has two heavy shielded cables going up the inside of the mast to light a running light and an anchor light. I am considering replacing these for various reasons. Is there any reason why the mast itself cannot be the common return? Cars use a common ground. I would use two wires to provide separate power to each light, and use the mast as the common return. Boat is in fresh water.
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why?
You still have to run the ground (return) to the battery so what do you gain by this? There may be better reasons for running a ground wire inside the mast but it isn't coming to me.
You still have to run the ground (return) to the battery so what do you gain by this? There may be better reasons for running a ground wire inside the mast but it isn't coming to me.
It sounds risky to me
I don't know much about electrical theory but I used to own a boat with a propeller shaft. The negative leg from the batteries was grounded to the engine and the shaft had a zinc collar on it. I replaced the collar once a year and I still had some occasional electrolysis. I would be cautious about running any electricity through the mast. Aluminum is very conductive but it's also susceptible to corrosion.
I don't know much about electrical theory but I used to own a boat with a propeller shaft. The negative leg from the batteries was grounded to the engine and the shaft had a zinc collar on it. I replaced the collar once a year and I still had some occasional electrolysis. I would be cautious about running any electricity through the mast. Aluminum is very conductive but it's also susceptible to corrosion.
Consider this first...
If you have ever had a trailer that used the frame for a ground, you'll run from the idea!!! Also, you'll need to attach the wire to the mast. Dissimilar metals and probably fastened with a yet different alloy bolt. You can use paste to help slow down the inevitable problems. A better solution, if you need to save a wire or two is to use a single common ground WIRE. I do this in Teliki as I have three devices on the mast and a four pole connector feeding them. Current is so low that wire gauge is not an issue. Make sure all connections are soldered and use "dielectric silicone" paste on any screw type joints. Actually, use dielectric silicone on ALL light bases and connectors (including the trailer). Your corrosion problems will be a thing of the past. You can get this stuff at any auto supply store - it's typically used on spark plug boots. Also, don't forget to use foam "hot water pipe" insulation sections (feed wires through them) if you want a totally silent mast at anchor. Chris
If you have ever had a trailer that used the frame for a ground, you'll run from the idea!!! Also, you'll need to attach the wire to the mast. Dissimilar metals and probably fastened with a yet different alloy bolt. You can use paste to help slow down the inevitable problems. A better solution, if you need to save a wire or two is to use a single common ground WIRE. I do this in Teliki as I have three devices on the mast and a four pole connector feeding them. Current is so low that wire gauge is not an issue. Make sure all connections are soldered and use "dielectric silicone" paste on any screw type joints. Actually, use dielectric silicone on ALL light bases and connectors (including the trailer). Your corrosion problems will be a thing of the past. You can get this stuff at any auto supply store - it's typically used on spark plug boots. Also, don't forget to use foam "hot water pipe" insulation sections (feed wires through them) if you want a totally silent mast at anchor. Chris
Silent mast
"Silent Mast" is one reason I am pursuing this. Last summer it was like sleeping under the "Anvil Chorus" with those two cables banging around in there. I have read other posts on silencing the mast. I have the foam tubes. I see posts where long cable ties are used with the tails left long and intact to absorb the movment. Does this work just as well? Thanks, Ron
"Silent Mast" is one reason I am pursuing this. Last summer it was like sleeping under the "Anvil Chorus" with those two cables banging around in there. I have read other posts on silencing the mast. I have the foam tubes. I see posts where long cable ties are used with the tails left long and intact to absorb the movment. Does this work just as well? Thanks, Ron
Mast Run
The tails left on the cable ties works great for sound suppression. When you run your new cable(s), have a child select his best running "Hot Wheels" car. Tie a light monofiliment fishing line to the car and roll it down the inside of the mast. Use the line to work up to a stronger line to pull the cable. If you go the three wire common ground way, know that you will need to connect correct polarity at the switching control. Also, the ground wire gauge should be selected to carry the load of both circuits, if you ever expect to use both at the same time. An easy way to reduce wire gauge is to convert to LED's and thereby reduce the load by about 2/3s. www.superbrightleds.com has a bulb to replace every standard incandescent. Also, there is a guy on Ebay who sells marine electric cable at a very reasonable price (search marine wiring). In addition to the dielectric paste, adhesive lined shrink tubing will help to control corrosion and give some measure of strain relief. I solder end terminals and make sure they are ring type ends, then cover with adhesive shrink tubing. Don't forget grommets where the cable exits the mast (both ends).
The tails left on the cable ties works great for sound suppression. When you run your new cable(s), have a child select his best running "Hot Wheels" car. Tie a light monofiliment fishing line to the car and roll it down the inside of the mast. Use the line to work up to a stronger line to pull the cable. If you go the three wire common ground way, know that you will need to connect correct polarity at the switching control. Also, the ground wire gauge should be selected to carry the load of both circuits, if you ever expect to use both at the same time. An easy way to reduce wire gauge is to convert to LED's and thereby reduce the load by about 2/3s. www.superbrightleds.com has a bulb to replace every standard incandescent. Also, there is a guy on Ebay who sells marine electric cable at a very reasonable price (search marine wiring). In addition to the dielectric paste, adhesive lined shrink tubing will help to control corrosion and give some measure of strain relief. I solder end terminals and make sure they are ring type ends, then cover with adhesive shrink tubing. Don't forget grommets where the cable exits the mast (both ends).
Pool Noodles
I haven't done this yet, but it's on my to-do list. A while back someone posted the idea of slipping those pool noodles, (floatation things kids play with in pools) inside the mast, as many as you can get in there. This will have the affect of quieting the wiring, and also will make the mast float if you ever get dismasted. And they can easily be removed if needed for maintenance. Has anyone done this, and care to comment? I agree with the previous comments about not using the mast as a ground/return. If for no other reason, it may become a maintenance problem. Because of the innevitable corrosion that will occur. You may find yourself troubleshooting ground problems more often than you want to.
I haven't done this yet, but it's on my to-do list. A while back someone posted the idea of slipping those pool noodles, (floatation things kids play with in pools) inside the mast, as many as you can get in there. This will have the affect of quieting the wiring, and also will make the mast float if you ever get dismasted. And they can easily be removed if needed for maintenance. Has anyone done this, and care to comment? I agree with the previous comments about not using the mast as a ground/return. If for no other reason, it may become a maintenance problem. Because of the innevitable corrosion that will occur. You may find yourself troubleshooting ground problems more often than you want to.
noodles
The mast is connected to the boat in so many places I don't it would ever sink unless it took your MacGregor with it.
The mast is connected to the boat in so many places I don't it would ever sink unless it took your MacGregor with it.
New ones have foam
I believe the new Mac's have foam in the mast for this purpose. Last summer there was a guy off the coast of Oceanside, CA, who got dismasted. Vessel Assist came out to help. First thing they did, without asking was cut all lines and let the mast go, it sank to the bottom. The guy lost his whole rig. I've heard that Coast Guard will do the same. The reason is that if the mast is dangling in the water, and it and the boat are going up and down in swells, there is a real danger of getting a hole punched in the hull. If this happend, and they cut all the lines for safety, and the mast, boom and sails were floating, it would be retrieved.
I believe the new Mac's have foam in the mast for this purpose. Last summer there was a guy off the coast of Oceanside, CA, who got dismasted. Vessel Assist came out to help. First thing they did, without asking was cut all lines and let the mast go, it sank to the bottom. The guy lost his whole rig. I've heard that Coast Guard will do the same. The reason is that if the mast is dangling in the water, and it and the boat are going up and down in swells, there is a real danger of getting a hole punched in the hull. If this happend, and they cut all the lines for safety, and the mast, boom and sails were floating, it would be retrieved.
use a stiffer wire
I used a really heavy stranded wire that I had laying around from our well pump. I think it was 12 or 14 guage and it was all wrapped in a casing It was 4 wires in one, so I was able to run one very stiff wire up, and I have thr option of adding another couple of light in the future. It was so stiff that it was hard to pull, but no slapping at night. Try a well company, and see if you can buy some off of them and try it. It is over-kill in terms of the guage, but it is better than having the slapping in the mast. Good luck.
I used a really heavy stranded wire that I had laying around from our well pump. I think it was 12 or 14 guage and it was all wrapped in a casing It was 4 wires in one, so I was able to run one very stiff wire up, and I have thr option of adding another couple of light in the future. It was so stiff that it was hard to pull, but no slapping at night. Try a well company, and see if you can buy some off of them and try it. It is over-kill in terms of the guage, but it is better than having the slapping in the mast. Good luck.
Multi Cable
I have an anchor light at the top and a combination steaming/foredeck light on the front of the mast. Instead of routing separate wires in the mast I found a product at West Marine called Mulitcable - 14GA, 5 conductor. It's expensive at $3.99/foot but, I thought it was exceptable as the jacket will protect the conductors. As it states there are 5 conductors, I ran two to the top of the mast for the anchor light (Positive/negative) and three to the combo light (two positives and a common negative). Now there is a problem with noise at anchor with this cable and the antenna cable but, I've been thinking of shooting some expanding foam into the mast at two or three locations. If I ever had to rewire I would have to "punch" out the foam with some 10' lengths of pvc or something.
I have an anchor light at the top and a combination steaming/foredeck light on the front of the mast. Instead of routing separate wires in the mast I found a product at West Marine called Mulitcable - 14GA, 5 conductor. It's expensive at $3.99/foot but, I thought it was exceptable as the jacket will protect the conductors. As it states there are 5 conductors, I ran two to the top of the mast for the anchor light (Positive/negative) and three to the combo light (two positives and a common negative). Now there is a problem with noise at anchor with this cable and the antenna cable but, I've been thinking of shooting some expanding foam into the mast at two or three locations. If I ever had to rewire I would have to "punch" out the foam with some 10' lengths of pvc or something.
about wiring,,,,
There are wiring available at places like lowe's...Home Depot Ect..14/2 w/g 14/3 w/g cheaply,,14 gauge with 2 or 3 conductors with ground. the UL type is for exterior use,,,,nm is not,I plan on useing the 14/3 with ground and using a 4 wire trailer type disconnect for my mast..also I plan on drilling 1/8 holes about every 3 feet and insert foam like the canned expansion foam to stop any noise,,,Also I am in need of a main sail cheap...if any one knows or has one for sale cheap...thanks...
There are wiring available at places like lowe's...Home Depot Ect..14/2 w/g 14/3 w/g cheaply,,14 gauge with 2 or 3 conductors with ground. the UL type is for exterior use,,,,nm is not,I plan on useing the 14/3 with ground and using a 4 wire trailer type disconnect for my mast..also I plan on drilling 1/8 holes about every 3 feet and insert foam like the canned expansion foam to stop any noise,,,Also I am in need of a main sail cheap...if any one knows or has one for sale cheap...thanks...
Mast for ground
using your mast for a ground will cause electrollysis. Your mast will corrode everywhere it touches a harder metal. Don't do it. A conduit can be run up the mast, very little extra weight and can help stiffen the mast too. Foam can be put into the mast, even more weight, but works. Cable ties can be left long/uncut, these keep the cables from slapping inside the mast too. Install an eye at the top of the mast to hold the wires up. Don't have them hangig from thhe mast head light. Do use the dielectric grease, it keeps moisture out of the connections and prevents corrosion. Most people find after the big project of securing the cables inside the mast that the clanging wasn't coming from the wires, but from the halyards.
using your mast for a ground will cause electrollysis. Your mast will corrode everywhere it touches a harder metal. Don't do it. A conduit can be run up the mast, very little extra weight and can help stiffen the mast too. Foam can be put into the mast, even more weight, but works. Cable ties can be left long/uncut, these keep the cables from slapping inside the mast too. Install an eye at the top of the mast to hold the wires up. Don't have them hangig from thhe mast head light. Do use the dielectric grease, it keeps moisture out of the connections and prevents corrosion. Most people find after the big project of securing the cables inside the mast that the clanging wasn't coming from the wires, but from the halyards.
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