Mast wiring

[shanker]

I checked my mast and steaming lights last night while my boat is still on the hard and ran into some issues. I have replaced with LED and want to be sure they are OK before I launch. My running lights both are fine. The stern light is very bright. The bow light works well. It has a red/green lens so I used a warm white bulb and it looks good. The problem I have is with my steaming and mast lights. They would not light up. I checked the power to the deck plug and it passed. I also checked the power at the light fixtures on the mast and there was none there. So it seems as though there may be an issue with the deck connector plug. It is pouring rain out today so I can't get out to investigate.

What I would like to know is if there is another link in the chain from the deck connection to the fixtures on the mast that could cause the problem? Has anyone come across this issue, not much in the archives.

Thanks,

 

[twodzusfittings]

I had mine fixed or so I thought. Last week I came in very late and I had everything working except my steaming light, so I used my solar powered garden light that I stick into a winch while I am not using the boat and ran that up the flag line.

I had to run a ground wire from the panel under the sole, up the wall in the V birth and through the same water tight plug that holds the wires for the antenna, and then hooking it up at the plug. This was the only way I could get the lights to work. Now will have to remove all the water tight tape and the shrink tubing and check why it is not working. I will let you know what I find. Yep I think it is raining just about everywhere today!!!

 

[sesmith]

On my previous boat (H 23.5) the problem was usually due to dirty contacts at the deck connector. Cleaning up the male side with emery cloth and the female side with electrical contact cleaner did the job. Also, the connectors are easy to take apart to check the wiring where it attaches.

In checking for power, a simple test light may be preferable to a volt meter or led test light. I played those games this spring, with a bad ground, where the voltmeter looked more or less ok, but a simple test light just plain failed to light.

 

[Erieau]

I also checked the power at the light fixtures on the mast and there was none there.

Two fixtures? As in one at mid-mast and one mast-top? Perhaps there is a disconnect at the lower fixture (at either wire).
If the emery cloth trick doesn't cut it, consider pulling the lower fixture to eyeball the wire connections.

 

[shanker]

It hasn't stopped raining for three days!!!

I went out with an umbrella and checked the mast light fixture and the wires are soldered and look fine. Could not get the test light to work. I will go back and try cleaning the connectors and then I will take apart the connector to check the wiring in there. I was hoping for the first splash of the year this weekend but this weather has put an end to that idea.

Did I mention that it's been raining for three days:cussing:

 

[Deucer]

Have you tried lighting up the lights with a battery connected to the mast wires? If the lights light up, then you have a connection problem. If they don't light up, check your voltage at the light(s) to make sure it's not a connection within the lights. If no voltage, check for continuity to make sure you don't have a break in the wire. First check through the light fixture, if no continuity, use jumpers to connect two mast wires at one end of the mast, then check the ohms between the two wires at the other. Of course this is easier if the mast is lowered.

Don't worry about the rain. 12v don't bite much.....

 

[Bill Roosa]

The power wires go directly from the deck plug to the lights, the grounds connect at the steaming light then return as a single wire to the mast plug.

 

[Hugh Straub]

I had a dead mast head light too. Turns out hard to see corrosion at the mast head was the culprit. But, while the mast was down, I bought a new deck plug at West Marine and new double strand wire at Loews and just rewired the mast. Took less than an hour. I don't recall the wire gauge, maybe 18, but the wire doesn't need to be heavy as I installed a low current draw, 360 degree LED bulb in the mast head fitting. The only expensive part was the bulb and hopefully that problem is cured for the next few years.

Best wishes

Hugh

 

[Crazy Dave Condon]

Shanker;

follow Sesmith and Hugh Straub advice as it is usally the contacts need to be cleaned and better yet, check where you tighten the screws into the plug can be also an issue.

On your boat, the mast light and steaming light I am assuming is the Perko dual light with a separator as the forward light when on is used for the steaming light and when both are on are for the anchor light. Generally the deck plug connector, the large plug is for negative and then you will need to figure the two hots which is for steaming and for anchor.

dave condon

 

[shanker]

Thanks guys!

I have the lights working!! turns out the ground was not properly tightened in the male deck plug. All lights work and they are bright!

the problem I have now is this. The switch for these lights on the electrical panel has three positions. left is "mast light", center is "off", right is "steaming light". Off works. When I click it to the left, both the lights go on (mast and steaming). When I click it right, the fuse pops?? Could the previous owned rewired the switch? I am going to switch the wires in the deck plug to see what that does.

Man I hate electricity!!!:bang:

I have got some minor projects done which I will post when I get home from work. The weather better be accommodating next week so I can get out and catch some wind! It's been a very long winter up here.

 

[sesmith]

Like Dave said, the larger pin is the ground and the switch should switch power to each of the other 2 pins depending on whether it's set to mast or steaming. "mast" should be 360 degree white light. "Steaming" should be 225 degree white light on the forward side of the mast.

If the fuse blows, there is a short to ground, most likely. Try disconnecting the mast plug- in from the deck. If the short goes away and the fuse no longer blows, and if the operation at the deck connector (ie, ground and 2 powers are working correctly) then the problem has to be further up. If the short doesn't go away and / or the power/ ground setup in the deck connector isn't right, then revisit the deck connector and the switch wiring, if necessary.

Then plug the mast connector back in...hopefully the short is still there if you suspected something from the deck connector up. Disconnect the light. If the short goes away, then either the light is wired wrong or defective. If the short doesn't go away, then it's either in the mast plug in or mast wiring.

Good luck.

 

[Hugh Straub]

I find it fascinating that folks worry about having a "steaming" light wired separately from the anchor light. For power driven vessels less than 12 meters in length, that is our boats while being powered by our outboards at night, the requirement is for a single all around white light as well as red and green side lights. (Rule 23(d)(i). An anchor light for a vessels of less than 50 meters is a single around white light. (Rule 30 (b)).

A sailing vessel while sailing exhibits the colored side lights and the white stern light. (Rule 25 (a)).

There is no reason to have a separate steaming light and anchor light. At my masthead there is a single 360 degree LED bulb powered by just two wires through a two prong deck plug. It conforms with the law for proceeding under power as well as laying at anchor. Anything more is needless complication and overkill.

Kind regards

Hugh Straub

 

[sesmith]

Hugh,

Correct you are. It's an either / or thing (1 round light or 2 lights...stern plus masthead). The 23.5 I had as well as my current boat have a stern light which comes on with my navigation lights. The steaming light is separate (and finishes the rest of the 360 degrees when on and motoring) and is on the mast. I'm assuming the O.P. has the same (and he's blowing fuses). Yours must be set up differently then.

So mine was set up as in fig 1 below. Yours must be like fig 2. ?

http://nyss.com/federal#3G

So then you must have a separate stern light that you just turn on when sailing?

The reason I'm asking is that it would be confusing to have a stern light on and a 360 degree mast light on at the same time. Are you looking at a boat in the distance that is anchored and just left his navigation lights on, or is he moving away and left his anchor light on? Or could it be a large boat with 2 masthead lights coming directly in your direction, and maybe you just aren't seeing the sidelights yet for some reason? Or is it even a boat? But maybe that's no more confusing than seeing a single white light at night. I get confused just thinking about it...things can look very weird at night. Anything that adds to the confusion factor can't be good.

 

[Hugh Straub]

Right you are about the stern light. I only use it when sailing at night and of course, the masthead light is extinguished at that time. Similarly, the stern light is not used when under power at night when the masthead light is on.

The mast head light fitting that came with my 1993 boat was rigged for a single, 360 degree bulb. However the interior light panel has the three position switch - steaming, off, and anchor. Both the steaming and anchor positions illuminate the all around mast head light. I never understood why Hunter provided the three position switch, and why Hunter, apparently on some models, wasn't content with a single all around masthead light.

Kind regards

Hugh Straub

 

[SeaTR]

Hugh,
I'd be really carefull about using ANY wire from Lowes as I don't think they carry tinned copper wire (needed for the marine environment). IF you were to use the standard un-tinned wire, I'd recommend heat shrink tubing with glue, or vinyl dip coating all exposed copper / connections to provide a good barrier from the saltwater / high moisture air.

THEN you'll get your years of problems being cured...otherwise you risk having to do the job all over again ... sooner than you thought.

 

[shanker]

So I have read through these posts and need clarification.

• When sailing I need my stern and the nav lights (red/green).
• When motoring I need the nav lights and either an all around light on the top of the mast or the stern and 225 deg light at the top of the mast.
• I thought the steaming light (half way up the mast) with the stern light and the navs are required when motoring?

My concern about both my mast and steaming light working in unison is that when I'm motoring, I can't do my steaming and stern light in unison. Also an issue when I'm at anchor. I'm only required to have an all around light (w 2 mile visibility) at the top of my mast. With my configuration, my steaming light (half way up my mast) will also be on with my mast light (all around). To add to the fun, the steaming light has a deck light that comes on with it. I assumed that is why my panel has a three way switch so that I can control each light individually. I think this is what sesmith is alluding to.

Why is the steaming light not depicted/mentioned in that link to the regs?

Good discussion!

 

[Stu Jackson]

The anchor light, all around white light at the top is NOT the steaming light, two different things, and not to be confused or used together.

Sailing: nav lights (red, green, white stern light)

Motoring: nav lights plus steaming light (the halfway up one)

Anchored: all around white light at top of mast, nav & steaming lights off

www.boatsafe.com

 

[shanker]

Awesome, thanks for confirming Stu.

So it sounds like I do have an issue with both the steaming and mast light coming on together. I'll have to explore why this is happening.

 

[sesmith]

. I think this is what sesmith is alluding to.

Yes. To add to the confusion, some boats (like mine) have a combination light on the top of the mast with the steaming light and anchor light built in. So when sailing, I have the navigation lights on, which include the stern light. When motoring, I also turn on the steaming light which is the 225 degree forward part of my mast top light (you apparently have a separate steaming light located part way up the mast, which accomplishes the same thing). Then when I'm anchored I turn on the anchor light which turns on 360 degrees of white light from my mast light (and have the navigation light switch and steaming light switch off).

You have 3 wires at the mast plug. 1 (the big one) should be the ground wire for both lights. The second wire powers the steaming light. The 3rd one powers the anchor light. It sounds to me like you're powering both lights when you turn the steaming light on, and shorting to ground and blowing the fuse when you turn the anchor light on.

 

[sesmith]

Not to start another long winded discussion , but I just noticed that in the original post you mentioned replacing your red/green navigation light bulb with a warm white led bulb. Just thought I'd mention that there is a "boatload" of reading, so to speak, about doing that. At least in the States, there has been much discussion about whether doing this creates a light that doesn't meet USCG regs, how would you know anyhow, and what your liability might or might not be. Just thought I'd mention this. That's the main reason I never went LED with my navigation lights (but did with my mast light on our previous boat to save power when at anchor all night). My current boat has a USCG certified led mast light on it, and I left the incandescents in the navigation lights.