Guess I should have expected that each maintenance/upgrade would lead to a whole different set of problems. Wanted to get an evaluation of the rigging on my 30 yr old Pearson 26 (certain that it was all OEM.) Was told all shrouds and stays were so old and stretched they could not be tuned anymore, making the mast structurally unstable and dangerous. In order to replace, the mast would have to be stepped. When stepped, it was discovered that the bolts holding the mast step to the deck were rusted and needed rebedding. Now it turns out the water that caused said rusting has ruined the structural wood frame that supports the mast from inside the cabin (sorry, I don't know what the proper name for this is; to me, it would be the door jam that separates the main salon from the head.) I can't even get a reasonable estimate on how much this repair will cost until someone goes below and removes what't there to fully assess the situation. The marina tells me they have no capacity at this time go in and do the work (if in fact they knew what needed to be done. I shudder to think what else is lurking below the surface. I thought I had a pretty decent boat last season but am getting discouraged with what I'll apparently have to invest this year to use it again. I'd seriously dislike spending the whole summer on the hard trying to make her seaworthy if every layer of the onion portends doom. Any advice on when is a good time to stop throwing good money after bad? I paid $5K for her and have spent an additional $3K so far this year. I'd be happy to spend another $2K to get her on the water, if I could feel secure that I wouldn't have to spend that kind of money every year on a basically depreciated commodity.
Mast Step Water Damage - Ugh!
- Thread starter bcwave
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P26 Repairs
bcwave: It sounds as though you didn't have her surveyed before you bought her or, if you did, you got one deficient survey. Before you go any further investigate the cost of a survey in your area. I'm sure you wouldn't buy a used car without having an independent mechanic look it over. The analogy applies here too. Several years ago a $500 survey prevented me from making a very expensive mistake. Make sure you're present with the surveyor and ask pointed questions.
bcwave: It sounds as though you didn't have her surveyed before you bought her or, if you did, you got one deficient survey. Before you go any further investigate the cost of a survey in your area. I'm sure you wouldn't buy a used car without having an independent mechanic look it over. The analogy applies here too. Several years ago a $500 survey prevented me from making a very expensive mistake. Make sure you're present with the surveyor and ask pointed questions.
Compression post
What you are describing is the commpression post down below. It seems to me that you should be noticing severe water damage and rotted wood down below for this to be at the post of replacement. Did you notice the post getting wet when it rains? In my old boat, a 1977 Cal 34 III the post was good, however to replace it would only entail cutting it out and replacing it and attaching back to the bulk-head. If that much water came through, check the bulk-head also. Another point to look at is the core under the step. If water was running though the bolts, then it was migrating into the core.....balso does not handle water so well. A survey would be my advise. Good luck Greg
What you are describing is the commpression post down below. It seems to me that you should be noticing severe water damage and rotted wood down below for this to be at the post of replacement. Did you notice the post getting wet when it rains? In my old boat, a 1977 Cal 34 III the post was good, however to replace it would only entail cutting it out and replacing it and attaching back to the bulk-head. If that much water came through, check the bulk-head also. Another point to look at is the core under the step. If water was running though the bolts, then it was migrating into the core.....balso does not handle water so well. A survey would be my advise. Good luck Greg
Bad compression post
I had a P26 (one design, in my case) with some rot at the bottom of the compression post. I was able to cut off the bottom couple of inches and replace it with a block of teak. My boat had a transverse attachment bolt in the post located below where I made the cut, and this served to hold the new support block in place. The repair held up fine until I sold the boat 4 or 5 years later, and I got caught in enough weather to really test it out. Looking back it might have been better to use something like high-density polyethylene if I could have found it, but the teak was OK. Now as to the deck core, I believe it was plywood in the area of the mast step. Look at the deck and see if it looks dished, or sunken in. You can live with a little bit, but you might want to drill a couple of holes to let some of the moisture out, then inject something like Git-Rot or thin epoxy to firm up what's left. If you're comfortable doing this kind of stuff yourself, the supplies should't cost more than 20 or 30 bucks.
I had a P26 (one design, in my case) with some rot at the bottom of the compression post. I was able to cut off the bottom couple of inches and replace it with a block of teak. My boat had a transverse attachment bolt in the post located below where I made the cut, and this served to hold the new support block in place. The repair held up fine until I sold the boat 4 or 5 years later, and I got caught in enough weather to really test it out. Looking back it might have been better to use something like high-density polyethylene if I could have found it, but the teak was OK. Now as to the deck core, I believe it was plywood in the area of the mast step. Look at the deck and see if it looks dished, or sunken in. You can live with a little bit, but you might want to drill a couple of holes to let some of the moisture out, then inject something like Git-Rot or thin epoxy to firm up what's left. If you're comfortable doing this kind of stuff yourself, the supplies should't cost more than 20 or 30 bucks.
p30 mast step
I have a p30 but no problems like yours. If I had your problems I would remove the teak post below. Check for rot like you say. Have a good shop build you a new post and install.I would try to get post out in one section but if not just use a sawzall to cut it out carefully and allow for cut when remeasuring. On the deck I would use a dremel tool to cut out deck fiberglass to get at the water damaged step area. Get some new balsa core from Defender,epoxy in place and replace the cut out top section.When replacing the aluminum step for the mast do not use the pipe for the wires. Drill some holes beside the mast and buy the proper fittings from Defender. Be sure to epoxy all driiled holes. This job shouldn't take too long but all the jobs on a boat take longer than you figure.I don't know if the bottom of the post rests on something solid. You would haver to investigate that aalso. Ed Grogan
I have a p30 but no problems like yours. If I had your problems I would remove the teak post below. Check for rot like you say. Have a good shop build you a new post and install.I would try to get post out in one section but if not just use a sawzall to cut it out carefully and allow for cut when remeasuring. On the deck I would use a dremel tool to cut out deck fiberglass to get at the water damaged step area. Get some new balsa core from Defender,epoxy in place and replace the cut out top section.When replacing the aluminum step for the mast do not use the pipe for the wires. Drill some holes beside the mast and buy the proper fittings from Defender. Be sure to epoxy all driiled holes. This job shouldn't take too long but all the jobs on a boat take longer than you figure.I don't know if the bottom of the post rests on something solid. You would haver to investigate that aalso. Ed Grogan
Update
Wanted to fill you all in on my progress. Turns out that the 26 is a slick little shell of fiberglass that really is dependent upon the bulkhead that separates the cabin from the head. The compression beam the sits below the mast step (arguably the most important piece of structural support after the keel) seems to be the place where Pearson tried to save some money by doing it on the cheap (not that I have a philosophical problems with THAT, except wher it concerns things structural.) Rather than being a substantial piece of hardwood, it was actually a glued sandwich of plywoods, cut on the lateral to provide the most support such a design would allow (much the same way as particle board I-beams are now used in a lot of new home construction.) The deck core is sound and solid, not at all cupped, despite its age. I've got a wooden boat restoration pro fashioning a new compression beam out of mahogany that will be set into the nice tray where the old beam used to reside. The compression posts (actually the door jam into the head) are made of a much higher quality wood and are in fine shape, strong enough to support the mast and rigging under load, through to the keel. I'm back on track and am hopeful to have "Key of Sea" back on the North East River by Memorial Day or shortly thereafter.
Wanted to fill you all in on my progress. Turns out that the 26 is a slick little shell of fiberglass that really is dependent upon the bulkhead that separates the cabin from the head. The compression beam the sits below the mast step (arguably the most important piece of structural support after the keel) seems to be the place where Pearson tried to save some money by doing it on the cheap (not that I have a philosophical problems with THAT, except wher it concerns things structural.) Rather than being a substantial piece of hardwood, it was actually a glued sandwich of plywoods, cut on the lateral to provide the most support such a design would allow (much the same way as particle board I-beams are now used in a lot of new home construction.) The deck core is sound and solid, not at all cupped, despite its age. I've got a wooden boat restoration pro fashioning a new compression beam out of mahogany that will be set into the nice tray where the old beam used to reside. The compression posts (actually the door jam into the head) are made of a much higher quality wood and are in fine shape, strong enough to support the mast and rigging under load, through to the keel. I'm back on track and am hopeful to have "Key of Sea" back on the North East River by Memorial Day or shortly thereafter.
P26 compr. post
I had to refurbish the compression beam and one post when I got our '76 P26 in 2003. It's a bear getting the posts out, a bit & brace w/ screwdriver is a BIG help. I had some rot at the back side of one post, couldn't see it til the post was removed. I epoxied in a patch of multiple ply marine plywood, reinstalled, and it seems fine 3+ yrs. later. The beam itself was OK, just needed a little epoxy filling & touch up. jc
I had to refurbish the compression beam and one post when I got our '76 P26 in 2003. It's a bear getting the posts out, a bit & brace w/ screwdriver is a BIG help. I had some rot at the back side of one post, couldn't see it til the post was removed. I epoxied in a patch of multiple ply marine plywood, reinstalled, and it seems fine 3+ yrs. later. The beam itself was OK, just needed a little epoxy filling & touch up. jc
rerigging old pearson
I am rerigging my P30 at a cost of perhaps $8000 including all new wires, staloc fittings both ends, new chain plates, new turnbuckles, new Schaffer furler, insulated backstay, new bolts for all tangs and chainplates, new mast wiring, new rope-only sheaves for masthead fitting, new main halyard, etc. I could save a few dollars by using swedges but want the option of cruising the southern waters where corrosion of fittings is an issue and ability to swap ends with rigging wires doubles life of wires. Hence I am changing mast fittings to accomodate an eye on both ends. I am also rewiring the boat and other stuff. But the end result, I anticipate, will be a fast able cruising boat for less than other options.
I am rerigging my P30 at a cost of perhaps $8000 including all new wires, staloc fittings both ends, new chain plates, new turnbuckles, new Schaffer furler, insulated backstay, new bolts for all tangs and chainplates, new mast wiring, new rope-only sheaves for masthead fitting, new main halyard, etc. I could save a few dollars by using swedges but want the option of cruising the southern waters where corrosion of fittings is an issue and ability to swap ends with rigging wires doubles life of wires. Hence I am changing mast fittings to accomodate an eye on both ends. I am also rewiring the boat and other stuff. But the end result, I anticipate, will be a fast able cruising boat for less than other options.
Pearson used a wooden wedge under the c-post
bcwave --- In the P26 & P30 the bulkhead is the actual structural support for the mast. The bulkhead supports and fits into a flange connection in the overhead liner. The split compression post (on either side of the bulkhead) transfers the load from the bulkhead down into the bilge. The base of the compression post (the portion thats in the main cabin area) was put in place by ramming a wooden wedge under the post ... and the whole bottom of the compression post and wedge was 'tabbed' into place with polyester resin and cloth. The problem is that the wedge and the bottom of the post begins to rot and the post becomes shorter inside the 'fiberglass socket' thats in the bilge.This is a fairly easy repait !!!! Just jack up the bulkhead, cut off the bottom of the post (to be sure that that you into 'good' wood, make a new 'pedestal' for what gets cut away out of epoxy or polyester filled with chopped fiberglass strands, wedge the pedestal into place and 'tab' it in place with epoxy. Its easy to 'mold' such a pedestal using polyester and chopped fiberglass strands - it can be dimensionally the same as what you cut off the bottom of the post ... plus some dimension for the rot that compressed.. How far to jack up? Slack the rigging and .... just until the hardware on the door to the head lines up again (or simply remount the hardware so that it lines up again). hope this helps.
bcwave --- In the P26 & P30 the bulkhead is the actual structural support for the mast. The bulkhead supports and fits into a flange connection in the overhead liner. The split compression post (on either side of the bulkhead) transfers the load from the bulkhead down into the bilge. The base of the compression post (the portion thats in the main cabin area) was put in place by ramming a wooden wedge under the post ... and the whole bottom of the compression post and wedge was 'tabbed' into place with polyester resin and cloth. The problem is that the wedge and the bottom of the post begins to rot and the post becomes shorter inside the 'fiberglass socket' thats in the bilge.This is a fairly easy repait !!!! Just jack up the bulkhead, cut off the bottom of the post (to be sure that that you into 'good' wood, make a new 'pedestal' for what gets cut away out of epoxy or polyester filled with chopped fiberglass strands, wedge the pedestal into place and 'tab' it in place with epoxy. Its easy to 'mold' such a pedestal using polyester and chopped fiberglass strands - it can be dimensionally the same as what you cut off the bottom of the post ... plus some dimension for the rot that compressed.. How far to jack up? Slack the rigging and .... just until the hardware on the door to the head lines up again (or simply remount the hardware so that it lines up again). hope this helps.
BC Wave,You say that you might
Have to spend a couple of thousand bucks to get out on the water this year in a 26 foot pearson boat. Tell me where you could get so nice a boat for a couple of thousand bucks. If you have real concerns send an email to " Waldenrigging@earthlink.net" and talk to Suzanne. She and Dobbs will sail with you, inspect your boat, treat you as well as your mother(if your mother still loves you ) and will cheerfully repair anything that needs repair. They are located at Red Point down on Elk Neck just south of Northeast. Tell them That I said to contact them. Ross Hill S/V Bietzpadlin
Have to spend a couple of thousand bucks to get out on the water this year in a 26 foot pearson boat. Tell me where you could get so nice a boat for a couple of thousand bucks. If you have real concerns send an email to " Waldenrigging@earthlink.net" and talk to Suzanne. She and Dobbs will sail with you, inspect your boat, treat you as well as your mother(if your mother still loves you ) and will cheerfully repair anything that needs repair. They are located at Red Point down on Elk Neck just south of Northeast. Tell them That I said to contact them. Ross Hill S/V Bietzpadlin
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