i crewed my boat while an experienced racer was helmsman. his first comment was about the lack of weather helm. he looked at the mast attachment in the cabin, saw that the mast is in the most rear positon (mast raked forward), and suggested that i move the base forward one or more positions, said this would introduce weather helm. as it is now, the tiller has almost no helm, is neutral. the boat will eventually turn up into the wind if the tiller is let loose, but not quickly. i kind of like the neutral feel, but have read that some weather helm is advantageous, for both safety and speed. and the experienced guy said i should dial some in. what do you think? doug
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I like neutral feel also
I like the neutural feel. It is hard to eliminate all weather helm so what wind conditions did this expert sail in? I think you should get a little weather helm at about 20-25knots. Below that neutural is just fine with me. 30 years sailing experence is my credentials.
I like the neutural feel. It is hard to eliminate all weather helm so what wind conditions did this expert sail in? I think you should get a little weather helm at about 20-25knots. Below that neutural is just fine with me. 30 years sailing experence is my credentials.
H216 Mast Rake
Hunter recommended to me that, because I fly a spinnaker, I tension the outer shrouds to 325# and put the mast in the stern most position...like you have been sailing it. The penalty for not doing this could be a bent/broken mast! In lighter winds I have a neutral helm...ideal for racing as I don't want any drag that will slow the boat down. Weather helm increases as wind increases; thank goodness. In medium/heavier winds I reduce the weather helm to neutral by tensioning the luff of the main, primarily by increased main halyard tension or the cunningham. I prefer tensioning the main halyard as it keeps the sail shape better than the cunningham. Once again I want the neutral helm for racing so there is minimal drag. But, there is always a little bit of weather helm. I want this in case I fall overboard. If nobody touches the helm, the boat will gradually go to weather then into irons instead of sailing away from me. I worry more about this if there is not another experience sailor on board, of course. To tension the main halyard easier, I have permanently knotted a loop in the main halyard using a butterfly (??) knot. I thread the halyard down around the cleat, up and through the loop, then back down to the cleat. this way I get a mechanical advantage to the halyard.
Hunter recommended to me that, because I fly a spinnaker, I tension the outer shrouds to 325# and put the mast in the stern most position...like you have been sailing it. The penalty for not doing this could be a bent/broken mast! In lighter winds I have a neutral helm...ideal for racing as I don't want any drag that will slow the boat down. Weather helm increases as wind increases; thank goodness. In medium/heavier winds I reduce the weather helm to neutral by tensioning the luff of the main, primarily by increased main halyard tension or the cunningham. I prefer tensioning the main halyard as it keeps the sail shape better than the cunningham. Once again I want the neutral helm for racing so there is minimal drag. But, there is always a little bit of weather helm. I want this in case I fall overboard. If nobody touches the helm, the boat will gradually go to weather then into irons instead of sailing away from me. I worry more about this if there is not another experience sailor on board, of course. To tension the main halyard easier, I have permanently knotted a loop in the main halyard using a butterfly (??) knot. I thread the halyard down around the cleat, up and through the loop, then back down to the cleat. this way I get a mechanical advantage to the halyard.
BOLOGNA!!! You should have your mast raked aft for best sailing performance. Weather helm is a necessary part of sailing. Without it you can't have proper helm feel. Of course, when you sail downwind the best thing to do is pull the masthead forward. This can be done by attaching your jib halyard to the foredeck and cranking on the tension. When you turn back upwind again, remove the halyard. Check with Hall Spars or Brion Toss for proper rig tuninig.
H216 Mast Rake BOLOGNA!!!
Sorry Alan but, except for my preferences for helm feel (you will note that I said I strive for neutral but there is still a bit of weather helm), the information I got about mast rake came directly from Glen Henderson, the manufacturer's designer of the H216. Is Glen full of BOLOGNA???? I think not. Your comments may make sense in the general context, but are incorrect for the H216. I admit it bothers me to be unable to change the mast rake and the outer shroud tension, but the boat sails well and is fast...I just won our club's Tour du Lac 20 miler race last weekend against Thistles and a Precision 16. Background: The Hunter 216 designer wanted as big a spinnaker as is practical with the boat and rig so they designed a pretty big spinnaker for a 21.5' fractional rig boat. The Bitter End Yacht Club (Google this if you are not familiar with them) got the first spinnakers and in their first race with 6 H216s, they bent four masts and broke one around the first weather mark when they launched their spinnakers. Not good! The designer flew out and examined the damage then specified the parameters for rig tuning when flying the spinnaker, that is, 325# outer shroud tension, minimal inner shroud tension, and no mast rake. Before the designer released any spinnakers to the general buying audience (I believe I got the first one), the designer took his H216 out off the Florida coast looking for the roughest weather he could find and tested the rig setup personally. Because of my early delivery of the spinnaker, I have talked to Glen directly and got the rig parameters from him...later verified by Hunter. I have no desire to bend or break my mast so I am following the designer's specifications on how to set up my rig. I judge this makes pretty good sense. Regarding using the jib halyard to tension the mast downwind...this sounds like a pretty neat idea. Unfortunately the H216 does *NOT* have a jib halyard.
Sorry Alan but, except for my preferences for helm feel (you will note that I said I strive for neutral but there is still a bit of weather helm), the information I got about mast rake came directly from Glen Henderson, the manufacturer's designer of the H216. Is Glen full of BOLOGNA???? I think not. Your comments may make sense in the general context, but are incorrect for the H216. I admit it bothers me to be unable to change the mast rake and the outer shroud tension, but the boat sails well and is fast...I just won our club's Tour du Lac 20 miler race last weekend against Thistles and a Precision 16. Background: The Hunter 216 designer wanted as big a spinnaker as is practical with the boat and rig so they designed a pretty big spinnaker for a 21.5' fractional rig boat. The Bitter End Yacht Club (Google this if you are not familiar with them) got the first spinnakers and in their first race with 6 H216s, they bent four masts and broke one around the first weather mark when they launched their spinnakers. Not good! The designer flew out and examined the damage then specified the parameters for rig tuning when flying the spinnaker, that is, 325# outer shroud tension, minimal inner shroud tension, and no mast rake. Before the designer released any spinnakers to the general buying audience (I believe I got the first one), the designer took his H216 out off the Florida coast looking for the roughest weather he could find and tested the rig setup personally. Because of my early delivery of the spinnaker, I have talked to Glen directly and got the rig parameters from him...later verified by Hunter. I have no desire to bend or break my mast so I am following the designer's specifications on how to set up my rig. I judge this makes pretty good sense. Regarding using the jib halyard to tension the mast downwind...this sounds like a pretty neat idea. Unfortunately the H216 does *NOT* have a jib halyard.
It's unfortunate
I wish that there was some way to validate all posts so that many who are new to the 216 are not misled by posters who haven't a clue as to what the 216 is (or is not) --- It's extreamly difficult to "Crank down on the jib halyard tension" on a boat, like the 216, that doesn't even have a jib halyard. Just a suggestion: Go sail a 216 and then we will all welcome any and all comments, recommendations, and questions whether you decide to buy one or not!
I wish that there was some way to validate all posts so that many who are new to the 216 are not misled by posters who haven't a clue as to what the 216 is (or is not) --- It's extreamly difficult to "Crank down on the jib halyard tension" on a boat, like the 216, that doesn't even have a jib halyard. Just a suggestion: Go sail a 216 and then we will all welcome any and all comments, recommendations, and questions whether you decide to buy one or not!
going to hunter with question
thank you all for opinons. i've decided to ask hunter, and have emailed them the question. will share their response. doug
thank you all for opinons. i've decided to ask hunter, and have emailed them the question. will share their response. doug
H216 - Right on Mr. Ernie!
I was surprised at Alan's lack of manners when he responded to my post about mast rake with "BOLOGNA!!!". My information came directly from the designer of the H216 so having someone that has never sailed a 216 tell me "BOLOGNA!!!" (which is basically saying "BOLOGNA!!!" to Glen Henderson)just doesn't feel right. I like the forum very much and have learned a lot but I really think a lot of the contributors could use a lesson from Mrs. Manners. I look forward to having others share their opinions and experience on the forum but basically telling someone they are full of crap is counter productive and impolite. The manners Alan demonstrated are more what I would expect from a stinkpot driver. BOLOGNA!!!
I was surprised at Alan's lack of manners when he responded to my post about mast rake with "BOLOGNA!!!". My information came directly from the designer of the H216 so having someone that has never sailed a 216 tell me "BOLOGNA!!!" (which is basically saying "BOLOGNA!!!" to Glen Henderson)just doesn't feel right. I like the forum very much and have learned a lot but I really think a lot of the contributors could use a lesson from Mrs. Manners. I look forward to having others share their opinions and experience on the forum but basically telling someone they are full of crap is counter productive and impolite. The manners Alan demonstrated are more what I would expect from a stinkpot driver. BOLOGNA!!!
Paul - Please contact me
Paul, please contact me via my e-mail which, if it can't be posted here, can be found on my website.
Paul, please contact me via my e-mail which, if it can't be posted here, can be found on my website.
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