I purchased a 1989 OD 192 last fall. Got it out just twice before winter set in. Both times I was able to raise the mast easily because I had help. I've seen several systems and/or procedures for raising a mast single-handed. Is there one that works best for this boat? If possible, I would prefer to avoid having to build a complex system, like the one in this winter's edition of Boatworks (as elegant as that one is...). I already have a mast crutch mounted to the rudder gudgeons that should help some.
Mast-raising singlehanded
- Thread starter JC192
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Thanks - nice pic
Thanks for the reply. I think I agree in general; I'm young enough (36) that I would probably get more laughs than compliments from friends for building a complicated rigging machine. I like the crutch in the picture - I made a homemade one that should do the trick. My boat has no halyard winch - I assume the mast cleat will do? Also - you mention going forward to attached the forestay once the mast is vertical. Would this be before inserting the forward retaining pin on the tabernacle, or after doing that?
Thanks for the reply. I think I agree in general; I'm young enough (36) that I would probably get more laughs than compliments from friends for building a complicated rigging machine. I like the crutch in the picture - I made a homemade one that should do the trick. My boat has no halyard winch - I assume the mast cleat will do? Also - you mention going forward to attached the forestay once the mast is vertical. Would this be before inserting the forward retaining pin on the tabernacle, or after doing that?
Tabernacle pins
I may take some criticism for this, but I never install the front pin. First of all, I've raked my mast back too far for the holes to line up for easy pin insertion and secondly, I watched a guy break off the bottom of his mast (on a Potter, not an O'day) when he put the second pin in and expected that to hold the mast up while he attended to other things. To my way of thinking, the mast step needs only to keep the bottom of the mast from slipping out of position and pass the compression loads through to the compression post below. One pin does all that. It is the job of the standing rigging to hold the mast up. It could be argued that the second pin over-constrains the design.
I may take some criticism for this, but I never install the front pin. First of all, I've raked my mast back too far for the holes to line up for easy pin insertion and secondly, I watched a guy break off the bottom of his mast (on a Potter, not an O'day) when he put the second pin in and expected that to hold the mast up while he attended to other things. To my way of thinking, the mast step needs only to keep the bottom of the mast from slipping out of position and pass the compression loads through to the compression post below. One pin does all that. It is the job of the standing rigging to hold the mast up. It could be argued that the second pin over-constrains the design.
O'day 192 Mast Raising - My 2 cents
JC192 I owned an O'day 19 for about 10 years and i now own an O'day 192. Last year I installed a CDI furler which necessitated raising and lowering the mast several times - on the water. I ised to 'muscle it up' but find that it's too dangerous to do single handed anymore. Too much chance of property damage or worse - damage to me or my crew. This winter I've been checking out mast raising systems to adapt to the boat. Try Googling "sailboat mast raising systems" and sit back and read about what's out there. Also, I talked to Rudy at D & R and he says they never made a mast raisinf option. The West Wight Potter 19 equipment is probably the closest to what is needed. Their system consists of a gin pole which bolts through the mast and also holds 2 small side stays which attach to U-bolts which need to be installed on the deck. My experience says that most of my problems were due to NOT keeping the mast from moving laterally. Potter sells their gin pole and hardware for $250, but the small stays are an additional $55. This total system would probably involve the least adaptation for the O'day 192. There is also a web site which shows the entire process and it can actually be done single-handed. Also, I did put an extension on my transon-mounted mast holder. This allows me to walk the mast back and insert the back pin on the tabernacle without lifting it. I've seen another company which makes an even longer extension with a roller for the mast. This was onl $85 and would greatly reduce the distance you'd have to lift the mast. MacGregore also makes a system but only for their 26 footer. This would probably require significant adaptation for the 192. Rudy thought this might be a good solution - but I don't. CAUTION: Regarding your practice of not installing the front pin on the tabernacle, I'd advise you to put it in and leave it in after you get the forestay pinned. I think you're taking a big chance here. Also, I suspect something is amiss with your rig if you need to rake the mast so far aft that you can't get the front pin in. My experience and understanding with the 192, and several other boats, is that you need to get both pins in, attach all shrouds and then use the turnbuckle adjustments ONLY to tune the rig. Without that front pin you are putting a greater strain/load on the front stay. Hope this helps you. Tim
JC192 I owned an O'day 19 for about 10 years and i now own an O'day 192. Last year I installed a CDI furler which necessitated raising and lowering the mast several times - on the water. I ised to 'muscle it up' but find that it's too dangerous to do single handed anymore. Too much chance of property damage or worse - damage to me or my crew. This winter I've been checking out mast raising systems to adapt to the boat. Try Googling "sailboat mast raising systems" and sit back and read about what's out there. Also, I talked to Rudy at D & R and he says they never made a mast raisinf option. The West Wight Potter 19 equipment is probably the closest to what is needed. Their system consists of a gin pole which bolts through the mast and also holds 2 small side stays which attach to U-bolts which need to be installed on the deck. My experience says that most of my problems were due to NOT keeping the mast from moving laterally. Potter sells their gin pole and hardware for $250, but the small stays are an additional $55. This total system would probably involve the least adaptation for the O'day 192. There is also a web site which shows the entire process and it can actually be done single-handed. Also, I did put an extension on my transon-mounted mast holder. This allows me to walk the mast back and insert the back pin on the tabernacle without lifting it. I've seen another company which makes an even longer extension with a roller for the mast. This was onl $85 and would greatly reduce the distance you'd have to lift the mast. MacGregore also makes a system but only for their 26 footer. This would probably require significant adaptation for the 192. Rudy thought this might be a good solution - but I don't. CAUTION: Regarding your practice of not installing the front pin on the tabernacle, I'd advise you to put it in and leave it in after you get the forestay pinned. I think you're taking a big chance here. Also, I suspect something is amiss with your rig if you need to rake the mast so far aft that you can't get the front pin in. My experience and understanding with the 192, and several other boats, is that you need to get both pins in, attach all shrouds and then use the turnbuckle adjustments ONLY to tune the rig. Without that front pin you are putting a greater strain/load on the front stay. Hope this helps you. Tim
Baby stays
I'm familiar with the West Wight Potter mast raising system. I agree that it is about the right size to use on a 192. The little stays (the Potter people call them "baby stays") that stabilize the mast as it is raised would be hard to implement on a 192. The U-bolts need to be on the same rotational axis as the pin in the mast step and the contour of the cabintop on the 192 would make this difficult without installing riser blocks or something similar. If you look closely at the photo that Joe attached to his message below you can see what he did with his 222 - there is a virtual pivot on the pin axis created with lines that will keep the stabilizing lines effective during the entire lift. Regarding your observations about the second pin, I am going to respectfully disagree. The Dwyer mast hinge is pretty much the only one ever offered that has two pins. I'd argue that they wanted to give people the choice of lowering the mast either forward or back. If your 192 had come with Z-Spar brand rig, it would have only had a cast base with only one pin and the most common mast steps, like those used on the Catalina 22, are a folded sheet metal piece with an "L" shaped slot that has a single pin or bolt that goes through the middle. I would also add - do NOT depend on those pins to hold the mast up. The top of the mast has incredible leverage to damage the step, the spar or even tear the top of the cabin out where the step is screwed in. I'm not making this up, I've watched it happen - the bottom 1 1/2 inches of this guy's mast was literally shredded when the stainless rivets were pulled through it as the mast fell. The accident left some big cracks in the gel coat too where the cabin top had flexed excessively. Incidentally, the mast step of my old Potter 15 has no pins at all, it has just an aluminum boss that matches the shape of the inside of the mast extrusion. If it weren't for the shrouds, that spar would be free to fall in any direction. They use a Dwyer hinge now for easier mast raising, but they built thousands of boats the old way and I've been sailing mine hard on San Francicsco Bay since 1997 without incident.
I'm familiar with the West Wight Potter mast raising system. I agree that it is about the right size to use on a 192. The little stays (the Potter people call them "baby stays") that stabilize the mast as it is raised would be hard to implement on a 192. The U-bolts need to be on the same rotational axis as the pin in the mast step and the contour of the cabintop on the 192 would make this difficult without installing riser blocks or something similar. If you look closely at the photo that Joe attached to his message below you can see what he did with his 222 - there is a virtual pivot on the pin axis created with lines that will keep the stabilizing lines effective during the entire lift. Regarding your observations about the second pin, I am going to respectfully disagree. The Dwyer mast hinge is pretty much the only one ever offered that has two pins. I'd argue that they wanted to give people the choice of lowering the mast either forward or back. If your 192 had come with Z-Spar brand rig, it would have only had a cast base with only one pin and the most common mast steps, like those used on the Catalina 22, are a folded sheet metal piece with an "L" shaped slot that has a single pin or bolt that goes through the middle. I would also add - do NOT depend on those pins to hold the mast up. The top of the mast has incredible leverage to damage the step, the spar or even tear the top of the cabin out where the step is screwed in. I'm not making this up, I've watched it happen - the bottom 1 1/2 inches of this guy's mast was literally shredded when the stainless rivets were pulled through it as the mast fell. The accident left some big cracks in the gel coat too where the cabin top had flexed excessively. Incidentally, the mast step of my old Potter 15 has no pins at all, it has just an aluminum boss that matches the shape of the inside of the mast extrusion. If it weren't for the shrouds, that spar would be free to fall in any direction. They use a Dwyer hinge now for easier mast raising, but they built thousands of boats the old way and I've been sailing mine hard on San Francicsco Bay since 1997 without incident.
Think I'll keep it simple
Thanks for all the great ideas. At this point I think the one idea every system seems to have in common is a good long mast crutch at the stern to get the mast up into position to be pinned to the tabernacle. I'll start there, manually raise it for now using the job halyard as an aid, and see how that goes. Joe - Incidentally in your picture you have a single backstay on your 222. I have a split backstay that attaches to u-bolts mounted on the transom on my 192. Is there any reason that someone would have altered the backstay in that way? Is it better, worse or indifferent to a single backstay?
Thanks for all the great ideas. At this point I think the one idea every system seems to have in common is a good long mast crutch at the stern to get the mast up into position to be pinned to the tabernacle. I'll start there, manually raise it for now using the job halyard as an aid, and see how that goes. Joe - Incidentally in your picture you have a single backstay on your 222. I have a split backstay that attaches to u-bolts mounted on the transom on my 192. Is there any reason that someone would have altered the backstay in that way? Is it better, worse or indifferent to a single backstay?
Hmm; guess mine's been modified
Not only do I have a split backstay mounted to two U-bolts (which I will say IS symmetrical) but I also have my mainsheet tackle mounted to the boom itself; not connected to the stay at all. Now that we're on the subject of rigging; it's been pointed out by the owner of a larger boat, that my 192 has no boomvang or topping-lift. Is it supposed to and/or does it need those items? ps, Dave - there's no picture in your posting.
Not only do I have a split backstay mounted to two U-bolts (which I will say IS symmetrical) but I also have my mainsheet tackle mounted to the boom itself; not connected to the stay at all. Now that we're on the subject of rigging; it's been pointed out by the owner of a larger boat, that my 192 has no boomvang or topping-lift. Is it supposed to and/or does it need those items? ps, Dave - there's no picture in your posting.
Now I see the picture
Sorry; browser is slower than my typing fingers. Sail is a bit baggy. Are you sailing her in SF Bay? I have mine in NY Harbor, which is probably similar and seems fine to me, but I have been told it's "much too tidal for such a puny boat." It that just a larger boater looking down on me?
Sorry; browser is slower than my typing fingers. Sail is a bit baggy. Are you sailing her in SF Bay? I have mine in NY Harbor, which is probably similar and seems fine to me, but I have been told it's "much too tidal for such a puny boat." It that just a larger boater looking down on me?
Boom Vang & Small Boat vs. Big Current
The standard backstay has a pendant with a snap-hook on it to hold the boom up and keep it out of the cockpit. This is not as versatile as a real topping lift, so if you have neither, I'd go straight for the topping lift. A Boom-Kicker is another option, but at $150, it's considerably more expensive than a topping lift would be. I think a boom vang is a must-have. Not just for performance, but on a boat with swept-back spreaders the vang will help limit the chafe on the mainsail. On a small boat like the 192, it doesn't take a lot of expensive hardware. I just made up a new one for about $40, though that doesn't include the attachments to the mast or boom which were already there. A fiddle block with integrated V-cleat and becket (I used Harken Micro series) and a double block will give you plenty of mechanical advantage. What you were told about tidal areas is partly true. I know a guy that said he wouldn't own a boat with a PHRF of more than 150 on SF Bay because there was a risk of getting carried out the Gate on the current. Well, true, we can get currents of up to 6 kts under the gate but it isn't like the currents are spontaneous - they are as predictable as clockwork and what it comes down to is that in a boat with limited hull speed you can't always go where you want when you want. One needs to plan their outings with the direction and magnitude of the current prominently in mind. In areas of rough water, a small boat is affected by the sea state more than a larger one. Think of it in terms of the wave height in proportion to waterline length. The 192 has about 15 feet of waterline, so a five-foot wave is 33% of that. To have the same effect on a boat with a 30 foot waterline the wave would have to be 10ft high. There are studies that indicate a boat is in danger of being capsized when breaking waves (not swell) reach 60% of the boat's waterline length. So a smaller boat should be back home in conditions where a larger boat could still safely be out sailing. How much fun anyone would be having sailing in 10ft. breaking waves is up for discussion, but size is one reason why boats like the 192 are not "offshore-rated".
The standard backstay has a pendant with a snap-hook on it to hold the boom up and keep it out of the cockpit. This is not as versatile as a real topping lift, so if you have neither, I'd go straight for the topping lift. A Boom-Kicker is another option, but at $150, it's considerably more expensive than a topping lift would be. I think a boom vang is a must-have. Not just for performance, but on a boat with swept-back spreaders the vang will help limit the chafe on the mainsail. On a small boat like the 192, it doesn't take a lot of expensive hardware. I just made up a new one for about $40, though that doesn't include the attachments to the mast or boom which were already there. A fiddle block with integrated V-cleat and becket (I used Harken Micro series) and a double block will give you plenty of mechanical advantage. What you were told about tidal areas is partly true. I know a guy that said he wouldn't own a boat with a PHRF of more than 150 on SF Bay because there was a risk of getting carried out the Gate on the current. Well, true, we can get currents of up to 6 kts under the gate but it isn't like the currents are spontaneous - they are as predictable as clockwork and what it comes down to is that in a boat with limited hull speed you can't always go where you want when you want. One needs to plan their outings with the direction and magnitude of the current prominently in mind. In areas of rough water, a small boat is affected by the sea state more than a larger one. Think of it in terms of the wave height in proportion to waterline length. The 192 has about 15 feet of waterline, so a five-foot wave is 33% of that. To have the same effect on a boat with a 30 foot waterline the wave would have to be 10ft high. There are studies that indicate a boat is in danger of being capsized when breaking waves (not swell) reach 60% of the boat's waterline length. So a smaller boat should be back home in conditions where a larger boat could still safely be out sailing. How much fun anyone would be having sailing in 10ft. breaking waves is up for discussion, but size is one reason why boats like the 192 are not "offshore-rated".
Wish I had a picture of the backstay handy
Well, what I have must not be a true "split" backstay. It begins at the mast as a single stay and becomes split with a fixed Y fitting several feet from the transom. Right at that same fitting, there is a pendant to which the book snaps to hold it up when the sail is not raised. Regarding the PHRF issue; I don't profess to know exactly how those work, but it seems to me that there are an awful lot of large boats with ratings of more than 150...
Well, what I have must not be a true "split" backstay. It begins at the mast as a single stay and becomes split with a fixed Y fitting several feet from the transom. Right at that same fitting, there is a pendant to which the book snaps to hold it up when the sail is not raised. Regarding the PHRF issue; I don't profess to know exactly how those work, but it seems to me that there are an awful lot of large boats with ratings of more than 150...
Split Back stay
JC192, I have no idea why they set up the back stay on your boat like that, unless the previous owner wanted to have a different main sheeting arrangement, while moving the stay so that it's in line with the center of the cockpit. My back stay attaches to a tang on my transom,which is a little off center because of the tiller. My topping lift consists of plastic coated cable with a marine eye fitting at the lower end, with a small sheave attached to it. One of my internal pendant lines inside my boom runs through this small sheave, and attaches to the end of my boom. This enables me to take up on my topping lift at the Goose neck and snub it off anywhere I like to hold the boom from falling. The topping lift cable has a stopper swagged on where goes through a small hole at the top of my masthead. I like this topping lift setup because it allows me to move my boom way over to the side so that I can have room to get into the cabin with the main sheet out of the way. I stand up sometimes while motoring and my head isn't always getting hit by the boom swaying back and forth. The biggest advantage of being able to control the topping lift at the goose neck, is the fact that I can reef my sail while I'm sailing. This is where the autopilot comes in handy. My dog Penny is smart, but she hasn't mastered the fine art of steering my sailboat yet. The down side of this setup is, that the topping lift can wear the edge of the sail as the sheave keeps hitting it while your sailing. Anyway, I got rid of that triangular plate on my back stay that was used for my main sheet, only because I installed a traveler in front of my companionway. I never heard of a Johnson Handy-Lock until this old guy at Rig-Rite told me about it. I think that I bought it used, at the time. If you do a lot of trailer-sailing, this Handy-Lock on the back stay, plus a Fast-Pin (button type) on your fore stay really cuts down on mast setup time.
JC192, I have no idea why they set up the back stay on your boat like that, unless the previous owner wanted to have a different main sheeting arrangement, while moving the stay so that it's in line with the center of the cockpit. My back stay attaches to a tang on my transom,which is a little off center because of the tiller. My topping lift consists of plastic coated cable with a marine eye fitting at the lower end, with a small sheave attached to it. One of my internal pendant lines inside my boom runs through this small sheave, and attaches to the end of my boom. This enables me to take up on my topping lift at the Goose neck and snub it off anywhere I like to hold the boom from falling. The topping lift cable has a stopper swagged on where goes through a small hole at the top of my masthead. I like this topping lift setup because it allows me to move my boom way over to the side so that I can have room to get into the cabin with the main sheet out of the way. I stand up sometimes while motoring and my head isn't always getting hit by the boom swaying back and forth. The biggest advantage of being able to control the topping lift at the goose neck, is the fact that I can reef my sail while I'm sailing. This is where the autopilot comes in handy. My dog Penny is smart, but she hasn't mastered the fine art of steering my sailboat yet. The down side of this setup is, that the topping lift can wear the edge of the sail as the sheave keeps hitting it while your sailing. Anyway, I got rid of that triangular plate on my back stay that was used for my main sheet, only because I installed a traveler in front of my companionway. I never heard of a Johnson Handy-Lock until this old guy at Rig-Rite told me about it. I think that I bought it used, at the time. If you do a lot of trailer-sailing, this Handy-Lock on the back stay, plus a Fast-Pin (button type) on your fore stay really cuts down on mast setup time.
Handy-Lock
Dave, I was in shock last week when my friend Wayne pointed out the price of the Handy-Lock. In fact, I had ordered a Johnson Catalog and received it in the mail Yesterday. As I pointed out though, I bought mine a long time ago and bought it used, but Johnson makes a Quick Release Stay Adjuster that sells for $36.00. If you moved your open turnbuckle up, and mounted one of these quick release stay adjusters under it, I'm sure that this would work out even better, easier, and faster than the Handy-Lock I'm using. For one thing; you would only have to fine tune your back stay once with your open turnbuckle, and never have to do it again no matter how many times you raise and lower your mast. I don't do any trailer-sailing anymore because I have a mooring, if I had one of these quick release adjusters on my boat, I'd "mouse" the fast pin to the adjuster, so nobody pulls it out, Or use a Quick Pin or a nut and bolt. If you do a lot of trailer-sailing Dave, I think it would be worth your while to look into one of these and use a button type Fast-Pin on your fore stay. You'll be up and sailing in no time flat. Oh, I forgot to mention the other advantage of using the topping lift. It's an extra set of hands for when I take my boom in and out of the cabin with the Mainsail already furled in Davis Sail Jocks, under the sail cover. I'm pretty certain that you can also do this on your 192, if you're not doing it already. I've been doing it on my 222 for years. It's just another time saver. Smooth Sailing! Thanks, Joe
Dave, I was in shock last week when my friend Wayne pointed out the price of the Handy-Lock. In fact, I had ordered a Johnson Catalog and received it in the mail Yesterday. As I pointed out though, I bought mine a long time ago and bought it used, but Johnson makes a Quick Release Stay Adjuster that sells for $36.00. If you moved your open turnbuckle up, and mounted one of these quick release stay adjusters under it, I'm sure that this would work out even better, easier, and faster than the Handy-Lock I'm using. For one thing; you would only have to fine tune your back stay once with your open turnbuckle, and never have to do it again no matter how many times you raise and lower your mast. I don't do any trailer-sailing anymore because I have a mooring, if I had one of these quick release adjusters on my boat, I'd "mouse" the fast pin to the adjuster, so nobody pulls it out, Or use a Quick Pin or a nut and bolt. If you do a lot of trailer-sailing Dave, I think it would be worth your while to look into one of these and use a button type Fast-Pin on your fore stay. You'll be up and sailing in no time flat. Oh, I forgot to mention the other advantage of using the topping lift. It's an extra set of hands for when I take my boom in and out of the cabin with the Mainsail already furled in Davis Sail Jocks, under the sail cover. I'm pretty certain that you can also do this on your 192, if you're not doing it already. I've been doing it on my 222 for years. It's just another time saver. Smooth Sailing! Thanks, Joe
Rigging
When I still had my topping lift I used it exactly as you describe to help get the boom out of the cabin. Now, with the boomkicker, I have to carry it out and connect the pendant before setting the boom in the cradle of the boomkicker. There is a lot to be said for keeping things simple! Fortunately for me, I think the mast and boom on the 192 are enough smaller that it is still manageable for me in my 50's. I was very impressd to learn that you used to muscle up the mast on your 222 using the "ArmStrong" method. I do have one on those lever action stay tensioners that I use on my Potter 15, so I'm familiar with those. They work well as long as the cable and crimps are small enough to fit inside the "handle" when you close it. I think I'll look into adding one to the bottom section of backstay when I re-rig. The pin I use to secure the forestay is a Ronstan Toggle Pin. Probably not as easy to use as a push button quick pin but very secure. It also has a little cable lanyard to keep it from getting lost - I'm a little clumsy.
When I still had my topping lift I used it exactly as you describe to help get the boom out of the cabin. Now, with the boomkicker, I have to carry it out and connect the pendant before setting the boom in the cradle of the boomkicker. There is a lot to be said for keeping things simple! Fortunately for me, I think the mast and boom on the 192 are enough smaller that it is still manageable for me in my 50's. I was very impressd to learn that you used to muscle up the mast on your 222 using the "ArmStrong" method. I do have one on those lever action stay tensioners that I use on my Potter 15, so I'm familiar with those. They work well as long as the cable and crimps are small enough to fit inside the "handle" when you close it. I think I'll look into adding one to the bottom section of backstay when I re-rig. The pin I use to secure the forestay is a Ronstan Toggle Pin. Probably not as easy to use as a push button quick pin but very secure. It also has a little cable lanyard to keep it from getting lost - I'm a little clumsy.
Whatever works for you Dave
I trailered my O'Day 222 for about 8 years almost every weekend, raising the mast and going out for overnighters. I'd come back and load it on the trailer and lower the mast and take her home each time. As I got old, trailer sailing got old too. Now, I have a mooring at the yacht club which only cost me $125 for the season. Membership and mooring fees together comes out to under $500.00 a year. We have a nice ramp with 110 feet of dock plus the club house with picknic tables under the shade of two trees. With the price of gas today, this is the cheapest way for me to use my boat. I just don't have the energy anymore to go back to trailering, at least not with this boat. Maybe something smaller with less work and easy set up. Anyway Dave, keep striving for that easier way to do it, and if it works for you, stick with it. Joe
I trailered my O'Day 222 for about 8 years almost every weekend, raising the mast and going out for overnighters. I'd come back and load it on the trailer and lower the mast and take her home each time. As I got old, trailer sailing got old too. Now, I have a mooring at the yacht club which only cost me $125 for the season. Membership and mooring fees together comes out to under $500.00 a year. We have a nice ramp with 110 feet of dock plus the club house with picknic tables under the shade of two trees. With the price of gas today, this is the cheapest way for me to use my boat. I just don't have the energy anymore to go back to trailering, at least not with this boat. Maybe something smaller with less work and easy set up. Anyway Dave, keep striving for that easier way to do it, and if it works for you, stick with it. Joe
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