mast head gaff???

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Sep 19, 2006
643
SCHOCK santana27' lake pleasant,az
i'm thinking about rerigging a santana27' (mastheadsloop)to a masthead gaff my thoughts are my own and i wont appoligize for that but i would like some input about the change of sail area and where to put the rear stays would i need an additional bulkhead to support them
 

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oh no

lead shoes

That's like putting lead boots on a sprinter! Most gaffer's I've seen have running backstays that must be moved on every tack. Gaffs are pretty, but.......NO!!!!
 
Jun 6, 2006
6,990
currently boatless wishing Harrington Harbor North, MD
Sail area distrobution

Well a gaffer is certainly a seaworthy sail, however, if you keep the sail area the same (good luck finding a sail maker that knows what he is doing on a gaff sail) the center of effort will be farther astern. The gaffer does not have the sail area up high like a Bermudian sail does and to get the same sail area the sail has to be longer in the foot. That causes the center of effort to move down (a good thing, less heeling force) and astern (say massive weather helm). I'd get out some paper and pencil and see how much the center of effort will be moving before I'd start buying things. The mast may need to be moved forward to keep boat balance.
 

Joe

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Jun 1, 2004
8,312
Catalina 27 Mission Bay, San Diego
Okay, I'll ask the question....

...WHY?
 
Oct 25, 2005
735
Catalina 30 Banderas Bay, Mexico
masthead gaff?

It's a sloop with either a gaff rigged main or a jib headed main. With a bit more information about what you are trying to end up with you might get some ideas. In general, the answer would be no. You cannot change the main to a gaff rig using the existing mast. Gaff rigs put loads on the mast in places that your mast and rigging was not designed for. If you are planning to remove the mast and rigging and replace it with a gaff rig, it can be done. You could make it Schooner if you want. :)
 

Rick D

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Jun 14, 2008
7,204
Hunter Legend 40.5 Shoreline Marina Long Beach CA
You Don't Want To Do That

...if, for no other reason, the Santana 27 is a very fine and fast boat. You will have a great time with her. She used to trounce a lot of competition on a boat-for-boat basis as well as on handicap when she was newer. Even now, she'd likely be very competitive. She carried a good chunk of sail for her weight, especially when you consider that most were rigged with a pretty big overlapping genoa. Put a good set of sails on her and enjoy the boat without spending time with modifications. Congrads on the deal. Now go play with her.
 
Jun 4, 2004
174
Oday 272LE Newport
So maybe ... you cut 10 ft. off the mast ...

set up running backstays ... and don't tack a lot. Or maybe you could do the Hunter thing without backstays. But still you will have to cut 25% off the mast height? Get you under some bridges better. Better down wind too. Vic
 

Joe

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Jun 1, 2004
8,312
Catalina 27 Mission Bay, San Diego
other ways to increase sail area....

... a fuller roach, for instance. Rigging a daisy or tall staysail. Or a larger head sail. I'm of the opinion that you should call the Shock Boat Company in Corona, ca and ask some of the tech people there to get their input.
 
F

Fred

I've had both Gaff and Marconi rigs

Each has its advantages. It's a bit of a hassle to set and release the running backstays every time the boom comes across. The easiest way to increase sail area is a bigger jib. Strangely enough, because bigger means more overlap, a bigger jib will place the extra sail area about where a gaff would. The added area from the proposed Gaff rig will give more drive reaching and running, but add nothing to windward (no increase in luff length unless the Gaff is nearly vertical) The added windage and weight aloft will make her heel more and may make her knock down easily in a breeze. Go look at some gaffers and notice the size of the wire they use. The Gaff rig tends to have more slack in it and shock loads can be quite high. Also the gaff slapping back and forth wieghs a lot more than a sail slapping back and forth up there and it can put a lot of strain on your rig, which was never designed for that strain. It's a lot of work and money for an effect that can be easily achieved in other ways, but sailing is an expensive and crazy pastime full of individuals with interesting ideas. If you do it, please post pictures and expect lots of comment.
 
Sep 19, 2006
643
SCHOCK santana27' lake pleasant,az
mast head gaff??

i have a 150% jib now i want to increase mainsail it just looks too small to me
 

Joe

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Jun 1, 2004
8,312
Catalina 27 Mission Bay, San Diego
Dear Sand Sailor...

...you know what is really important? How she sails is what's important. Do not try to make your boat look like something she isn't.... she's already cool looking, you just don't know it. You want her to look like a Hunter or some of the other lightweight, fractional rigs in your marina.... but it will look stupid to other, more knowledgeable, sailors if you bastardize the fine design you already possess. A masthead rig, derives its power from the headsail, the mainsail providing some power but mostly balance. Traditional masthead rigs carry very large headsails and moderately sized mains. In the 70's, when I lived in the SF Bay area, the common set up for the windy conditions was a large genoa, with a smaller main or reefed main. Yours is such a boat. If you think the sailplan looks out of proportion.... try setting a smaller headsail, perhaps a 120 or 135 so that it "LOOKS" like you think it should. Do you understand the difference between a masthead rig and a fractional rig? Do a little research... yours is a masthead rig, where the headsail hoists fully to the top of the mast. A fractional rig's headstay terminates somewhere below the top of the mast so the headsail's full hoist is only a fraction of the mast height. For a visual, picture a hobie cat.....that is a fractional rig. Large, fully battened mainsail with a small headsail whose main function is to redirect air over the powerful mainsail and help the boat tack through the wind.
 
Sep 15, 2006
202
Oday 27 Nova Scotia
Balance ??

Adding more sail area will not necessarily give you more speed, which is presumably what you're after. If you overpower the boat with too much sail and then have to use a lot of rudder angle to counteract a strong weather helm you'll slow the boat down. Ditto for sailing with the lee rail buried. Don't forget that the limiting factor to boat speed is the distance between the bow & stern waves : unless the hull form will allow you to surf, you've got a displacement boat and are stuck with the limitations of the hull speed. Off the wind, adding sail area will only help to the point where you attain hull speed, more or less. In light air using a big, light-weight chute & having a glass-smoth bottom will probably give a better return than the gaff rig, and the windward ability of the boat won't be compromised. What you're proposing doesn't seem to be cost-effective and IMHO, you'll wind up with a lot of hassles & frustration and ,effectively, a lesser boat. I can appreciate the advantages of 'trailer-sailing' but at 27 ft you're near the upper limit, more due to the beam than the LOA. Perhaps you should look at a folding multi-hull: they're light enuf to trailer easily & are very quick.
 
Sep 19, 2006
643
SCHOCK santana27' lake pleasant,az
thanx guys

thanx for the input guys she sail quite well and i think i'll tweek every thing i can without changing her she'll give me a run for the money now i've been talking to tom schock quite a bit and i'm sure he's figured this out already TT made sense about balance i'll go with that ps schock says the hull speed is around 50knts we'll find out
 
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