Mast compression inspection on the new vega

K

k_setchfield

.
Feb 19, 2010
80
Hi everyone,

Thanks for the warm welcome!

The Vega I am in the process of purchasing has some mast compression on the deck. The compression is perhaps 2 millimeters total all around the aluminum step plate. The deck has some small cracks around the mast step plate. A couple actually go through the fiberglass and may measure at most one millimeter wide at their widest part. The rest are smaller, but all could potentially admit water during rain or spray. I don't know how long they have been there.

The support beam appears almost true. It has only a barely perceptible sag in its middle. The bulkheads look perfectly true.

I would like to inquire about what steps I should take to investigate further. I expect that I should take off the facing board on the supporting beam below and take a good look at it. But what about water infiltration to the deck through the cracks? How could I inspect to see if there's been any damage to the core? The mast is standing.

Running my hands over the deck above the bulkheads, I can feel the deck bulge up over the bulkheads. Perhaps the bulge is a millimeter above the plane of the surrounding deck. It's clearly noticeable. Is that there when new or is it a result of age/stress?

Should I simply reinforce the beam and consider it all solved, or should I cut away at the cabin sole to reveal the junction between the bottom of the posts and the hull? The posts shouldn't transfer weight to the hull, right? That's the job of the bulkheads only, right?

We want to be ready to take the vega across the ocean, not just coastal cruising.

Many thanks in advance for your thoughts and feedback!

Kristopher
 
V

Vega1447

.
Oct 19, 2019
921
Albin Vega 27 Limerick
Hi Kristopher
Steve Birch is the expert on this subject.
He can supply you with a stainless steel mast support which has the same
side profile as the hardwood support beam in place and just bolts to it.
As you say, the doorposts should not touch the cabin sole, mine did
before I installed the support beam - another warning sign (again from
Steve) is if the door to forecabin is hard to close, rubbing at top
against underside of beam.
Even the washboards at the companionway were beginning to stick - hard
to insert the top one - I thought that it was caused by humidity!

For what it is worth, I could not "see" that the beam had distorted
except indirectly as above.

Since installing, the boat is noticably stiffer & I can tighten up the
rigging to recommended tensions.

See http://jkcray.maths.ul.ie/SailingPhotos/VegaMastSupportBeamReinforced
for some pics and a short account of my experiences.

Hopefully Steve will post a comment in relation to ingress of water but
I'd suggest you remove the "pelmet" cover over the beam and have a look
at underside ofcoachroof?

Good Luck..

John
V1447 Breakaway

k_setchfield wrote:
 
S

stevebirch2002

.
Nov 8, 2001
1,818
Hi

As John has said the door supports should not touch the floor. You should be able to get the tip of your little finger under each jamb (I have sausage fingers so quite a gap!)

Only way to check is to loosen of the rigging as muc as possible and strip back from inside the forecabin. You should see any water ingress. Perhaps get the use of a moisture meter? There is a support kit available and it is not too difficult to fit (Contact me off group for details - steve@...).

Hope this helps

Steve Birch - Vega "Southern Comfort" V1703
 
J

j.hunter9999

.
Oct 30, 2019
574
Moisture coming in to the cabin and on to the support or bulkheads should be visible when you remove the forward facing cover. However, a lack of moisture in this area does not necessarily negate a potential problem. Steve suggested a moisture meter to check for moisture in the deck at and around that point. I second that thought.

A slightly more destructive method if a moisture meter is not available, or if the boat has been stored indoors in a heated facility for an extended period of time (which would allow the core to dry up) is to drill a small hole in the deck at the point(s) where you fear moisture. Stick a paper clip or something in there and twist it around. I can't recall if that area is balsa or ply, but either case is easily detectable if there is moisture. Moisture will show up as black stuff coming out, or soft wood. You can refill the hole with epoxy or gelcoat.

If you notice moisture, get one of Don Casey's books on deck repair and you'll be able to fix it right up. Add to that the steel support from Steve Birch and she will be as good as new (or better).

Hope that helps.

Jack
 
K

k_setchfield

.
Feb 19, 2010
80
Thanks John for the great pictures, Steve for the thought about the moisture meter, and Jack for the reminder about checking the core with a paperclip.

So, the next thing for me to do is to remove the beam panel in the forecabin to inspect the foreward side of the beam and check for visible moisture intrusion. I'll get a moisture meter and check with it also from both below and above deck. That'll tell me if I need to consider core and deck work. I'll check the posts to see if they clear the floor still or not.

Then it's time to fashion or purchase a beam reinforcement, as I don't want to fit a post in the middle of the doorway except for an emergency at sea.

Thanks again. I'll take photos to clarify my findings. Why can't we post photos in our group topics here? That's so 2000.

Kristopher
 
P

pjacobs55

.
Oct 30, 2019
1,459
Hi Kristopher,
In the Yahoo Vega Files section there are some pictures of beam replacement:
groups.yahoo.com

Yahoo! Groups

groups.yahoo.com groups.yahoo.com
If your beam looks original, and has any sag at all it would be best to replace or reinforce it.

Also, on page 6 of the Vega manual
is a drawing showing the wood reinforcement insert locations in the deck. The rest of the deck core is a synthetic material so won't rot like a balsa-cored deck, although if water gets in it'll still delaminate. The nice thing about the core material is that it doesn't soak up the volume of water that balsa does, if it does happen to suffer a leak.

There was a good article on the science behind the mast beam design, but I can't find it :-(
Anyway, you're correct in that the beam should be supported by the bulkhead, not the floor. One thing to check is if all the little nuts and bolts holding the bulkhead to the fiberglass hull tabs are present and tight. Half mine were either loose or missing, and some of the holes had worn badly from flexing. I repaired this by increasing the fastening size slightly and re-tightening.

A previous owner re-built my mast beam using two beautiful pieces of African Mahogany, thru-bolted with 1/4" bolts. He also added some posts down the forward sides if the door opening, bolted to the bulkhead, stopping well short of the floor. I guess this was done to prevent bulkhead flex around the doorway.

Other things that comes to mind before sailing over the horizon:
- give the rudder a thorough check, as they have been known to fail in the area of the internal metal brackets.
- strengthen the forestay stem fitting, especially if you have roller jib furling.

Peter
#1331 'Sin Tacha'
 
T

trevy_kins

.
Oct 31, 2019
230
Peter, that link to the Vega manual doesn't seem to work - where is it
on our site? Thanks, Trevor (V2915)

________________________________

From: AlbinVega@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AlbinVega@yahoogroups.com] On
Behalf Of Peter
Sent: April 7, 2010 12:19 PM
To: AlbinVega@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [AlbinVega] Re: Mast compression inspection on the new vega





Hi Kristopher,
In the Yahoo Vega Files section there are some pictures of beam
replacement:
groups.yahoo.com

Yahoo! Groups

groups.yahoo.com groups.yahoo.com
Yahoo! Groups
If your beam looks original, and has any sag at all it would be best to
replace or reinforce it.

Also, on page 6 of the Vega manual
http://tinyurl.com/yzoq7bw http://tinyurl.com/yzoq7bw
is a drawing showing the wood reinforcement insert locations in the
deck. The rest of the deck core is a synthetic material so won't rot
like a balsa-cored deck, although if water gets in it'll still
delaminate. The nice thing about the core material is that it doesn't
soak up the volume of water that balsa does, if it does happen to suffer
a leak.

There was a good article on the science behind the mast beam design, but
I can't find it :-(
Anyway, you're correct in that the beam should be supported by the
bulkhead, not the floor. One thing to check is if all the little nuts
and bolts holding the bulkhead to the fiberglass hull tabs are present
and tight. Half mine were either loose or missing, and some of the holes
had worn badly from flexing. I repaired this by increasing the fastening
size slightly and re-tightening.

A previous owner re-built my mast beam using two beautiful pieces of
African Mahogany, thru-bolted with 1/4" bolts. He also added some posts
down the forward sides if the door opening, bolted to the bulkhead,
stopping well short of the floor. I guess this was done to prevent
bulkhead flex around the doorway.

Other things that comes to mind before sailing over the horizon:
- give the rudder a thorough check, as they have been known to fail in
the area of the internal metal brackets.
- strengthen the forestay stem fitting, especially if you have roller
jib furling.

Peter
#1331 'Sin Tacha'
 
P

pjacobs55

.
Oct 30, 2019
1,459
Sorry about that Trev!
It's in the Vega Yahoo site, files section, titled "Vega Handbook.pdf"
It's a good read, even after owning a Vega for a few years.

Peter
#1331 'Sin Tacha'
 
V

vegatern

.
Oct 2, 2005
465
I have posted to the files section a description of one owner's fix for the mast compression issue. "Mastbeam - bulkhead reinforcement".
Craig Tern #1519
 
T

trevy_kins

.
Oct 31, 2019
230
Craig, I can't seem to open your file. Can you please forward me a copy
of it directly at leecht@...? It's funny, I am right in the
middle of doing that very job. Thanks, Trevor V2915



From: AlbinVega@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AlbinVega@yahoogroups.com] On
Behalf Of vegatern
Sent: April 13, 2010 1:48 AM
To: AlbinVega@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [AlbinVega] Re: Mast compression inspection on the new vega





I have posted to the files section a description of one owner's fix for
the mast compression issue. "Mastbeam - bulkhead reinforcement".
Craig Tern #1519
 
J

j.hunter9999

.
Oct 30, 2019
574
The file is a WordPerfect document. You might have some problems opening it with some of the standard word processing software packages. You might try downloading Open Office for free and see if that works.
 
V

vegatern

.
Oct 2, 2005
465
Sorry about that, It didn't seem to want to convert last night but I think I was successful this time. Try it now. Craig
 
P

pjacobs55

.
Oct 30, 2019
1,459
Hmmm ... looks like a PDF file to me ... Adobe Acrobat Reader should open it.

My favorite PDF reader is at
www.foxitsoftware.com

Free PDF Reader: Download and View PDFs | Foxit

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www.foxitsoftware.com
It's tiny, full featured, loads in seconds, and free! (shameless plug for a top notch product)

Peter
#1331 'Sin Tacha'
 
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