mast and boom

[trainmanjess]

hello all

i have finally identified my mast and boom.. they are made by dwyer.. is this normal for a 86 Mac25 to have dwyer mast and boom? .. i also found this particular mast and boom on a catalina 27.. also from all the pictures i have seen of the mast and boom on other Mac25, the shroud, forestay, and backstay are not attached to the mast in the same way as what i have on mine.. also the hardware for the halyards is differant too.. it also seems to be placed in differant configurations to what i have seen.. any thoughts on this ? .. i am not trying to make it back the way the pictures are, but i am trying to learn the differances in how these are rigged up.. any suggestions, comments, or helpful thoughts will be appreciated..

thanks
Jess

 

[StinkBug]

well I guess the first question is how do you know that this is a mast and boom for a Mac25? You found them on a Catalina, so what makes you believe that they aren't for a catalina? If everything seems different....it's probably different. Not to say they wont work, theres nothing super special about a mast or boom.

FWIW I dont think mine have any markings on them at all, so I have no idea who actually made them.

 

[centerline]

you didnt include pics in your post so im not exactly sure what the configuration is you are referring to, but I do know how they are supposed to be rigged. some had a "chicken head" fitting at the top of the mast that the halyards ran thru and others just had blocks rigged to turn the halyards back to the deck....

the catalina 27 uses a different mast than we do on our 25's. its much larger a a slightly different profile.....

if you go to the dwyer website, it shows the different profiles of extrusions.... we use the DM6 for our mast and the DM5 for our boom...

has your boat been de masted? no mast with it?..... if you are setting it all up from scratch, you need to decide soon if you want to put it back to original or if you want go go with a masthead rig..... the parts are all the same, but the stays/shrouds are longer. and the headsails will be different.
the fractional rig is the original set up on the 25 and 26, (although some were special ordered with the masthead rig) and is the most common so its probably easier to find good used sails of this cut, but its really a matter of personal preference as all the macs sail well either way.

 

[trainmanjess]

hello

well my mast is the DM-400 mast profile..the mast is 28-5 long.. the boom has the DM-2 profile i believe. the boom is 10-6 long.. there is no masthead or chicken head fitting.. there seems to be 2 metal bars fitted along the side of the mast top, slanting downward for the backstay to attach to, and the block for the halyard... also the fractional rigging is about 6 ft from the top, and fastened to a metal bracket, and the shrouds are about 2 1/2 feet below the forestay where it is fasten into the mast.. this doesn't resemble anythihng i have seen on other Mac25s..

this mast and boom came with my purchase of this Mac25.. i do not know if this is what it was rigged as when factory made.. i saw this type of mast and boom on a hunter catalina.. all the standing rigging is on the mast, and i removed it from the Mac25 before i took it in to the repair shop.. i got my Mac25 at a ministry charity auction.. this is my 1st sailboat, so i have alot to learn about it..

thanks
Jess

 

[centerline]

that extrusion was used on some of the later model 26's... and others.
and 28-5 long is good. the original was 28ft even and the original boom was 10-10 long. a few inches shorter doesnt make any difference as the sails were cut to anywhere from 10-2 to 10-6... the original mac 25 had a 10-6 foot on the mainsail....

the masthead fitting you have is the most common, although the macs pointed straight back, horizontal.
the fractional forestay fitting should be 22ft from the bottom of your mast.
your upper shrouds will connect at the same level as your forestay, but the lower shrouds will connect to the mast at an elevation of 11ft from the bottom of the mast. this is also the point where the spreaders for your top shrouds attach to

somebody was wise and kept the extra length in the mast when they replaced it... my halyard knot is about an inch from my halyard block when the sail is hoisted tight, which a miss is as good as a mile here, but I think more is better...

you took the boat in for repairs???... what are you having done to it?
did you see the mast standing on the boat with all the stays/shrouds attached?.... you may need to do some serious rigging adjustments, but at a minimum, before you attempt to stand the mast, inspect the ferules on all the wires very carefully for vertical cracks in it or broken individual wires just where the wires disappear into the ferule.... a failure here could cost you a new mast......

if you can figure out EXACTLY which boat and model you saw that EXACT rigging plan on, and you will be closer to knowing what you have before you try to put it all together one day.
it sounds like you may have something from another boat that will take a little tuning to get right, or it may be a wildcat rig that someone thought would be better than the original setup..... either way, its workable...

 

[trainmanjess]

hello

i took my Mac25 to the repair shop for 3 gouges in the hull from the old broken trailer it sat on for 3 years.. the gouges were through the outer layer of the fiberglass.. i wanted this repair done 1st, and i also got a coat of ablaitive paint on the water line too.. i have the mast laid out in my backyard, and all the stays and shrouds extended.. i have traced all the standing rigging, and it all looks in good shape.. no freys, breaks, or kinks.. the ferrules seem to be in good order.. some of the rigging is fastened with chain plates, and some of it is done with turnbuckles.. everything was fastened in place except the backstay.. it has a single backstay from the mast top to the cockpit, it fastens in toward one side of the cockpit.. i have seen where the backstay splits about 3 ft above the cockpit and then runs 2 cables the rest of the way to the corners of the cockpit.. this seems like it would be better to keep clear of the tiller and other items around the cockpit/transom area..

i appreciate the help here.. this is all new to me being this is my 1st sailboat to own.. i have sailed on other peoples sailboats, but never paid much attention to the way it was rigged, other than to enjoy the sailing.. i am enjoying the learning about how maintenance and repair on a sailboat is done.. i think this will make it much more enjoyable sailing my sailboat, as i built it the way i wanted for sailing..

again thank you for the help and advice
Jess

 

[centerline]

the chain plates you have referred to are actually stay adjusters.... the actual chain plates are the plates that is bolted to your hull and come up thru the deck.... the stay adjusters will pin to them....
the split backstay is a good thing.... normally it is attached without splitting, about 9 or 10inches starboard of the tiller.... having it split will help if you decide to search for the ultimate sail trim on all points of the wind.... for most of us, we dont worry to much about the "ultimate" in sail trim, as long as we are relaxing and enjoying our time on the water.

its always more enjoyable when were sailing our own boat vs. someone elses..... but its always more expensive too

 

[Doc_holiday]

its always more enjoyable when were sailing our own boat vs. someone elses..... but its always more expensive too

Yeah but it sure beats paying $7.50 a mile to have a big ol' diesel sucking power boat

 

[Kestle]

If you have a choice, go with a masthead rig. As I recall, it allows you to fly J/24 racing sails, which are inexpensive on the used market. Also a bigger chute...

Jeff

 

[trainmanjess]

hello all

thanks for all the advice.. i am changing it to a masthead rig.. i was at the sailboat shop on saturday, and i now have a masthead on my mast.. the spilt backstay will work nicely.. i have 2 cables that measure 58" and has swage forks on each end of both.. i am placing eyelet on each corner of the transom to fasten the split backstay too.. then they will connect to a triangle piece of plate metal and then the backstay tightener will fasten to it also.. this will be a good location and height.. i have found a genoa jib that will fit my harken furler.. i have contacted harken, and they still have the extrusion and connector, i need to extend my furler to fit a full masthead rig.. everything is coming together for me on my project.. it just takes time to get it all done.. i found a main sail with 2 reefing points.. it is used, with a few stains, but in good working condition.. i am still looking for a furler jib sail for my sailboat..

until later
Jess

 

[finding41]

Why look for a jib if you have a genoa? I find I use my genoa most. I know a partially furled sail doesn't give the best performance but heck why not. Your probably not going to be racing every day so what does 100% performance matter.
I'd just furl the genoa partially and cleat off the furling line.
The other option is getting a jib with a luff wire and hooking it up to a separate halyard a bit lower on the mast. It just wont be furling.

 

[THECUSCUS]

Jess, here is a pic of the plates (cutdown mac chainplates) I used to anchor the ends of the backstay. Also a pic of the triangle plate, don't forget to put a turnbuckle in, so you can get proper rig tension when stepping the mast. With a masthead rig, you won't really be able to bend your mast for sail shape, so a backstay adjuster wouldn't be of much use (other than maybe increasing forestay tension, but you will probably rip the mounts out of the transom first)

 

[trainmanjess]

helllo all

thanks for the advice.. i like the idea of using the old chainplates for anchors for the split backstay.. i noticed you have blocks and ropes atached to your split backstay????.. why ? with your pictures, i can get mine set now too.. i am getting a ferrule tube clamp so i can do my own stays and shrouds.. i am also replacing the adjusters with turnbukles.. i like the turnbuckles much better for setting the tension.. and i can lock them off with a safety wire..

yes... i really don't need a jib, with the genoa.. but to only partially unfurl the genoa, without the reinforced area, won't it split it in 2 ??... atleast that was what i was told by a sail maker..

i am tired of all this cold, wet, snowy weather.. i want warm sunny days... i got my sailboat back from the shop and it looks great.. not too bad of a repair bill either.. i am happy with the work done.. now i need warm sunny days so i can get out there and work on my baby, and get her rready to sail this spring..

sincerely
Jess

 

[THECUSCUS]

Jess, the "blocks and rope" are my back stay adjuster. You can see in this pic how the line runs. By pulling on the line, the blocks move down the "triangle", pulling the sides together, which makes the backstay "shorter" (tighter if you will). On a fractional rig, this allows you to bend your mast to affect your sail trim. On a masthead rig, it's not needed.

 

[trainmanjess]

hello all

i understand the ropes on the split backstay now.. that is ingenious.. i will use a backstay adjuster with mine, so i can loosen it when i drop the mast.. i cannot do that with my forestay, because i have a harken furler on the forestay.. i was looking at this backstay adjuster and it works along the same lines as a binder the truckers use on thier chains when they secure the load on the trailer.. the local sailboat shop has several of them in differant sizes.. the smallest size will do nicely, and it is not too expensive.. i was looking at getting one of those adjusters that uses the winch crank to adjust it, but those are so very expensive.. the cheapest i found was over $400 and it was used.. i believe one from the sailboat shop willl be the best for me on my back stay.. unless someone has a better idea, for me to use ??

when attaching the halyards - which is better, inside the mast ?.. or outside the mast? .. with my new masthead it looks like i have to run the halyards down the inside of the mast.. this is not a problem for me, as i have my mast laid out in my backyard right now.. as to getting the ropes down the mast, that is easy too.. i will use a sewer auger.. i have a flat tape sewer auger that is 50' long .. it will slide right up the mast while it is laying on it's side, then i can use duck tape to make a loop on the auger.. attach the halyard with a shackle and pull it through to to other end.. for my electrical wiring going up the mast, i saw someone use 1/2" pvc pipe fastened inside the mast to use as a feed channel and to protect the wiring inside.. is this a good idea ??

sincerely
Jess

 

[THECUSCUS]

Use caution if you going to tension the forestay with the backstay. You don't want to tension the wire more than 10-15% of its working load. Don't know about yours, but my backstay wire is smaller dia than the forestay. The masthead type will dictate how you run your halyards. Either way works as good as the other. Although the line inside the mast will be subject to slapping around in there, making a nuisance noise when you try to sleep. Ever sleep on a boat in windy/wavy conditions and the halyards are slapping against the mast? It's like water torture. For your mast electric wire, putting those 7" plastic wires ties, 3 in one spot with the tails 120degrees apart, every 3 feet or so is the simplest way to keep the wire from banging around in there. A tube in there, not secured along its length, will make more noise than the wire. It will also add to the weight of your mast assembly.

 

[trainmanjess]

hello

thanks.. all my wires for my stays and shrouds are the same diameter.. i am looking to buy a loo's tenshioner gauge to set them all by.. the back stay adjuster can be adjusted to tighten or loosen as needed, then flip the handle open and the backstay is really loose so I can drop the mast when needed.. i will set a plug at the deck next to the mast plate, so when i drop the mast, i can unplug the electrical wires and radio antenna cable.. i understand about using the zip ties.. thank you for that suggestion.. i can live with the ropes slapping against the mast... i can sleep through a gun fight in a war zone.. i did it.. the military taught me to sleep anyplace and under any conditions.. the guy who had the 1/2" pvc pipe inside his mast, had it wired to the mast every 6 ft or so, to keep it next to the inside of the mast and not slap around..but under the circumstances, i like your zip tie idea better.. no pvc, i will use the zip ties.. thanks

i will be trailer sailing for the immediate future.. i have many projects to do to my boat over the summer.. i will keep her in my backyard and work on her as time permits.. i have to rebuild the whole interior to suit my needs.. everyhting is stripped out of it right now.. i have mold and black tree sap to clean off the deck to make her white again.. any suggestions on getting it bright white again.. someone suggested i use oxyclean in hot water, and scrub the deck with a soft bristle brush.. they said it would make it clean and white again.. the guy who repaired the hull for me and painted it too, said he could pressure spray it with a chemeical that will get everythign off it, make it white again, then he would polish the hull and deck for me.. but he wanted alot for the job, i think.. then i have new cabin doors to make, and the pop top supports need to be replaced.. one support is broken, and the other ripped out the edge of the fiberglass it was fastened into.. i thought about getting an aluminum track and instaling it over the fiberglass, and then attaching the supports to that for the pop top.. i plan to install porthole/hatch windows on the sides of the cabin, instead of the plastic solid windows..i would like fresh air blowing through the cabin sometimes, so an open porthole/window would be nice.. once i have the outside fixed up, then i will be starting on the inside.. i have made a long list of projects to do..

sincerely
Jess

 

[Doc_holiday]

Once you have the internal wiring fixed so it doesn't slap around inside the mast, it makes no sense to then let the halyards slap the outside. I realize you are trailering but solving mast slap is as much for everyone else at the marina, not just us. You can easily hook the halyard to the lifeline cables (I forget the term, the wire fence on the gunwhale). The other end can be pulled out to the shrouds.

 

[trainmanjess]

Hello All

i was inspecting my Mac25 today and taking measurements.. yes, the halyards will do nicely attach to the lifelines with snap shackles.. thanks.. good idea.. while inspecting and taking measurements, i notice the pink one piece plexiglass windows are broekn into several pieces.. even though they are still solid against the deck as port windows, then will allow water to leak in.. i am not so sure i want to replace the plexiglass panel with another plexiglass panel.. i am thinking more in the lines of port style windows that open to allow air flow through the cabin.. i will need 4 port style windows.. i will find some about the same lenght at the original opening, but i was thinking about taller windows.. any siggestions ?

thanks
Jess

 

[centerline]

im kinda wondering about how you will lower the mast by loosening your back stay.....
the macgregor boat is set up so that the forestay is only tensioned against the shrouds.
if your shrouds or forestay is so loose that you can disconnect it by loosening the back stay, something is seriously wrong with the tuning of your rigging....
you must have a turnbuckle or johnson lever at the forestay to loosen the tension there for dropping the mast.
as THECUSCUS alluded to, if you are converting your 25 to a masthead rig, the backstay adjuster will be completely unnessesary and unusable for tuning your rigging..... set it and forget it. if you kept the fractional setup, then the adjuster could come into play.....

and dont just add a longer forestay to the mast top and consider it a masthead rig. the upper shrouds must go there also....

on the macs, once the rigging is set up and tuned properly against the shrouds and forestay, whether masthead or fractional, the only adjustment, connection or disconnection necessary for dropping or standing the mast will be done at the forestay/stemhead fitting.... all other rigging stays connected.
and under normal family sailing, only one rigging tune up per season is all that should be needed, and that usually involves tensioning the forestay a bit more.

if you get into racing, then you will be fiddling with the rigging forever looking for the sweeter spot.....