Are marine sanitation laws too tough? Too lenient? Or just right? Do you follow the laws... and if you do, do you wish you didn't have to? How would re-write the laws, if you could? Dump your opinions here, and don't forget to vote in this week's Quick Quiz at the bottom of the home page.
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JUST LOOK AROUND YOU
GO SAILING ON OUR BAY FOR JUST A DAY AND ANYONE CAN SEE THE VALUE OF THE LAWS. TO TOUGH, I DON'T THINK SO. PUMPING OUT IS A SNAP AND THE RETURN ON OUR INVESTMENT IS ENORMOUS.
GO SAILING ON OUR BAY FOR JUST A DAY AND ANYONE CAN SEE THE VALUE OF THE LAWS. TO TOUGH, I DON'T THINK SO. PUMPING OUT IS A SNAP AND THE RETURN ON OUR INVESTMENT IS ENORMOUS.
Tough and Tougher
The tougher the better as far as I'm concerned. I hate to see crud floating in the water. Even though we live and sail in a relatively pristine area, the impact of pollution on the marine wildlife population has been significant. Yes we do obey the laws and would even if there weren't laws. Our biggest challenge is that you can pump holding tanks overboard in Canada, even right next to the shore. As a consequence there are few if any pumpout stations and you end up with no choice if you're up there on an extended cruise.
The tougher the better as far as I'm concerned. I hate to see crud floating in the water. Even though we live and sail in a relatively pristine area, the impact of pollution on the marine wildlife population has been significant. Yes we do obey the laws and would even if there weren't laws. Our biggest challenge is that you can pump holding tanks overboard in Canada, even right next to the shore. As a consequence there are few if any pumpout stations and you end up with no choice if you're up there on an extended cruise.
Need more pump-out stations
When the pump-out station at our marina is out of service (their holding tank is full) we need sail at least 10+ miles to get to the nearest location. (outside the three mile limit). Other wise we have S*** all over everywhere. Russell
When the pump-out station at our marina is out of service (their holding tank is full) we need sail at least 10+ miles to get to the nearest location. (outside the three mile limit). Other wise we have S*** all over everywhere. Russell
Too tough and too lenient
This is one of those issues where a lot of the problems would go away with rational enforcement of existing laws and rational behavior on the part of boaters. On the enforcement side make *all* untreated discharge, by boater, landowner, or government subject to the same rules. If you can't pump out your head then a shoreside landowner can't flush into the bay and a municipality can't let their overflow dump into local waters. A no-discharge zone is a no-discharge zone period. Second use scientific rather than political criteria for determining what areas should be no-discharge zones. Then enforce the new laws equitably. For boaters, use common sense. If you're in a restricted flow area, like a marina or a lake or an anchorage then don't pump overboard. If you're someplace where you wouldn't mind pumping and then jumping in then you're probably OK. Just my $.02. Jim "Prospect"
This is one of those issues where a lot of the problems would go away with rational enforcement of existing laws and rational behavior on the part of boaters. On the enforcement side make *all* untreated discharge, by boater, landowner, or government subject to the same rules. If you can't pump out your head then a shoreside landowner can't flush into the bay and a municipality can't let their overflow dump into local waters. A no-discharge zone is a no-discharge zone period. Second use scientific rather than political criteria for determining what areas should be no-discharge zones. Then enforce the new laws equitably. For boaters, use common sense. If you're in a restricted flow area, like a marina or a lake or an anchorage then don't pump overboard. If you're someplace where you wouldn't mind pumping and then jumping in then you're probably OK. Just my $.02. Jim "Prospect"
rediculous
Fellow sailors, I feel it's a little bit of a double standard. I pump my holding tank out, it goes across the harbour to Plum Island waste treatment plant, they in turn pump it into the harbour. One can actually SEE the waste entering the water when they blow their pipes out! They MAY treat the raw sewage, but to simply dump it back in the harbour is ridiculous. I think the chemicals I use in the holding tank does the same thing as Plum Island.
Fellow sailors, I feel it's a little bit of a double standard. I pump my holding tank out, it goes across the harbour to Plum Island waste treatment plant, they in turn pump it into the harbour. One can actually SEE the waste entering the water when they blow their pipes out! They MAY treat the raw sewage, but to simply dump it back in the harbour is ridiculous. I think the chemicals I use in the holding tank does the same thing as Plum Island.
Need new government agency
I think we need a new government agency to enforce "no dumping" rules among the marine mammal population. Should be easy to get through if democrats retain white house - after all, if a little poop is bad, imagine following a whale or dolphin pod around. Seriously, Common sense should prevail, but it should be easier to pump out at any marina.
I think we need a new government agency to enforce "no dumping" rules among the marine mammal population. Should be easy to get through if democrats retain white house - after all, if a little poop is bad, imagine following a whale or dolphin pod around. Seriously, Common sense should prevail, but it should be easier to pump out at any marina.
Replacement for Common Sense
Laws are required when common sense does not prevail. I have spent a lot of my boating life in and around the lower Potomac River and the Chesapeake Bay area and now live on the banks of Lake St Clair in Michigan. I have always been an anti-establishment type and fought against what I considered to be unfair and burdensome laws laid on a few for the sins of many (for example, making the boating population suffer when an overwhelming percentage of effluent polution comes from the local cities / municipalities). But, I guess you must start somewhere. I remember one small isolated cove on the lower Potomac River to which a small handful of us gravitated to on weekends. It was far enough from the "beaten path" that few ventured to it, or for that matter, could even see it. For 3 or 4 years we jealously protected this cove; we made it a rule to pick up and carry back home more than we brought onto the beach. A good rule for all of us to follow. Then, the cove became a popular weekend hangout. Today it is closed to the public because of the trash left on the beach and the bottom of a one time pristine sandy river floor. Commnon sense should have told us this would happen if we trashed the area. But obvioulsy, common sense did not prevail. This is not just a story of this beach and cove but hundreds of thousands of such areas throughout this country. If we can not manage ourselves, then others must take on our responsibilities. Laws are then the only answer and, even with them, look at the problems we create (beer cans, plastic bags floating in the marina.....trash piled up at the slips because we are too lazy to carry it 100 yards to the dumpsters.....cans, bottles, etc. floating on the waterways. I want my children and, someday, my grandchildren to know and appreciate what I have grown to love. Thank God for laws and those that enforce them.
Laws are required when common sense does not prevail. I have spent a lot of my boating life in and around the lower Potomac River and the Chesapeake Bay area and now live on the banks of Lake St Clair in Michigan. I have always been an anti-establishment type and fought against what I considered to be unfair and burdensome laws laid on a few for the sins of many (for example, making the boating population suffer when an overwhelming percentage of effluent polution comes from the local cities / municipalities). But, I guess you must start somewhere. I remember one small isolated cove on the lower Potomac River to which a small handful of us gravitated to on weekends. It was far enough from the "beaten path" that few ventured to it, or for that matter, could even see it. For 3 or 4 years we jealously protected this cove; we made it a rule to pick up and carry back home more than we brought onto the beach. A good rule for all of us to follow. Then, the cove became a popular weekend hangout. Today it is closed to the public because of the trash left on the beach and the bottom of a one time pristine sandy river floor. Commnon sense should have told us this would happen if we trashed the area. But obvioulsy, common sense did not prevail. This is not just a story of this beach and cove but hundreds of thousands of such areas throughout this country. If we can not manage ourselves, then others must take on our responsibilities. Laws are then the only answer and, even with them, look at the problems we create (beer cans, plastic bags floating in the marina.....trash piled up at the slips because we are too lazy to carry it 100 yards to the dumpsters.....cans, bottles, etc. floating on the waterways. I want my children and, someday, my grandchildren to know and appreciate what I have grown to love. Thank God for laws and those that enforce them.
California has laws.
In CA. where I live you can not pump holding tanks overboard anywhere within 3 miles of land. This includes offshore islands, like Catalina. Sure it seems like a pain when you would love to 'dump' overboard but the results are much cleaner marinas and beaches. In Avalon on Catalina they actually board your boat upon entry and put dye in your toilet and pump it. If the dye shows in the surrounding water you are fined $500 and not allowed back for one year. The fact your 'Y' valve is on the overboard setting does not matter. See ya!! This port is now clean because of this law. If people will not 'police' themselves than the government must. Does 'not cleaning up after a dog' bother you? If yes, dumping overboard is the same for swimmers, etc. in your marina. Not to mention what it does to marine life.
In CA. where I live you can not pump holding tanks overboard anywhere within 3 miles of land. This includes offshore islands, like Catalina. Sure it seems like a pain when you would love to 'dump' overboard but the results are much cleaner marinas and beaches. In Avalon on Catalina they actually board your boat upon entry and put dye in your toilet and pump it. If the dye shows in the surrounding water you are fined $500 and not allowed back for one year. The fact your 'Y' valve is on the overboard setting does not matter. See ya!! This port is now clean because of this law. If people will not 'police' themselves than the government must. Does 'not cleaning up after a dog' bother you? If yes, dumping overboard is the same for swimmers, etc. in your marina. Not to mention what it does to marine life.
Pump out laws
I find it a little reducilous that the goverments put thorugh the laws for zero discharge by boaters and then in one rain storm the sewer treatment plant overflows and puts out thousands of gallons of untreated waste. How many boats would it take to equal that same amount of discharge, I certianly don't know.
I find it a little reducilous that the goverments put thorugh the laws for zero discharge by boaters and then in one rain storm the sewer treatment plant overflows and puts out thousands of gallons of untreated waste. How many boats would it take to equal that same amount of discharge, I certianly don't know.
Murray, that's not just CA law...
That's federal law. It's illegal to discharge untreated sewage--either flush the head directly overboard or dump a tank--within 3 miles of the US coastline (up to 12 in parts of the Gulf of Mexico), including islands that part of the US, anywhere in the country. And it's not just 3 miles from land, it's 3 miles offshore.
That's federal law. It's illegal to discharge untreated sewage--either flush the head directly overboard or dump a tank--within 3 miles of the US coastline (up to 12 in parts of the Gulf of Mexico), including islands that part of the US, anywhere in the country. And it's not just 3 miles from land, it's 3 miles offshore.
Mellowed With Time
Used to be livid at what I considered to be a prioritization issue. For example, my understanding on one of the prior posts concerning Avalon is that municipal run off continues to be a major contaminant. But, why shouldn't we do our part? One look at dockside restrooms is enough to convince you that trusting voluntary compliance isn't an option, unfortunately. Still, I HATE the idea that in MdR, CA we get one (old, beat up) pump out for 6,000 boats. More and better would be GREAT. (Are you listening??) Rick D.
Used to be livid at what I considered to be a prioritization issue. For example, my understanding on one of the prior posts concerning Avalon is that municipal run off continues to be a major contaminant. But, why shouldn't we do our part? One look at dockside restrooms is enough to convince you that trusting voluntary compliance isn't an option, unfortunately. Still, I HATE the idea that in MdR, CA we get one (old, beat up) pump out for 6,000 boats. More and better would be GREAT. (Are you listening??) Rick D.
If The Government Wants to Help
It seems to me easier access to pump-out stations would reduce the temptation for people to illegally dump. It sure helped in the RV industry. The Forrest Service, Department of Natural Resources, The Park Service and other govt. agencies spend LOTS of dollars on providing facilities for RV dumping. If there were NICE and ABUNDANT pumping stations for boaters it would help to keep the honest people honest. I realize we still need laws (ENFORCED) for those individuals who disobey, but this would be one way our government could help. WE WILL pay for it ofcourse... one way or the other Ward
It seems to me easier access to pump-out stations would reduce the temptation for people to illegally dump. It sure helped in the RV industry. The Forrest Service, Department of Natural Resources, The Park Service and other govt. agencies spend LOTS of dollars on providing facilities for RV dumping. If there were NICE and ABUNDANT pumping stations for boaters it would help to keep the honest people honest. I realize we still need laws (ENFORCED) for those individuals who disobey, but this would be one way our government could help. WE WILL pay for it ofcourse... one way or the other Ward
It's hard to pump it out if don't have stations!
I agree that we should have some control on what is deposited in our waterways, and I don't have a problem with using pump-out stations. My problem stems from the fact that, especially in my area, that there are very few pump-out stations available. Those that do exist are not conveniently located. Apparently, this is a problem in may areas. What does it take to change the condition? Change law or invest in more pump-out stations.
I agree that we should have some control on what is deposited in our waterways, and I don't have a problem with using pump-out stations. My problem stems from the fact that, especially in my area, that there are very few pump-out stations available. Those that do exist are not conveniently located. Apparently, this is a problem in may areas. What does it take to change the condition? Change law or invest in more pump-out stations.
Needle in a haystack
Kenneth, I agree with you. In a zero discharge area a few boats on the water cannot even dump their treated sewage (if they are so equiped) while the city not only dumps it's "treated" sewage but on occasions raw sewage. So boaters take their sewage to a pump out where it then gets discharged anyway.
Kenneth, I agree with you. In a zero discharge area a few boats on the water cannot even dump their treated sewage (if they are so equiped) while the city not only dumps it's "treated" sewage but on occasions raw sewage. So boaters take their sewage to a pump out where it then gets discharged anyway.
The government DOES help, Ward
The Clean Vessel Act of 1992 provided for federal grants to marinas to install pumpout facilities. However, the marinas do have to apply for the grants.
The Clean Vessel Act of 1992 provided for federal grants to marinas to install pumpout facilities. However, the marinas do have to apply for the grants.
pump outs
In our area (Groton ct.) there is a FREE pump out boat that come to the area marinas and will pump you out at you dock! This is a city owned boat and service. There is also a second boat in the area (owned by the state) that also pumps out at your dock! These boat are a GREAT use of tax dollars and CT. should be commended for having them!
In our area (Groton ct.) there is a FREE pump out boat that come to the area marinas and will pump you out at you dock! This is a city owned boat and service. There is also a second boat in the area (owned by the state) that also pumps out at your dock! These boat are a GREAT use of tax dollars and CT. should be commended for having them!
50 million gallons -- no problemo
I concur with the pumpout issue. Down here in MIami they are far and few between. Last time I used one the marina charged me $40! A few months ago a sewer pipe broke between Miami Beach and the mainland. Dumped 50 million gallons of raw sewage into the northern end of Biscayne Bay before they shut it off. Then they diverted it to an older network which dumped the raw sewage a couple miles off Miami Beach straight into the ocean for about 3 weeks at a rate of 25 million gallons a day. Environmental disaster? Ecological ruin? Naaaah. No environmental damage was expected or reported, except they had to close the beaches for a few days to be on the safe side. Even there, the concern wasn't human waste but the draino and other chemicals people flush down their drains. They thought there might be a little algae bloom where the spill occurred. To achieve the same amount of sewage as was dumped into the Bay (not counting what was dumped in the ocean), I'd have to fill and pump my 22 gal holding tank about 2 million times (that's a lot of enchiladas). (Or I could take it to the marina pump out and pay $80 million). I don't doubt there are some areas where the water flow is limited and where dumping could have an effect on the environment. But apparently not in Biscayne Bay. It's hard for me to be motivated to take my boat 2 hours out of my way to pay $40 for a pumpout my 22 gal holding tank when 50+ million gal apparently isn't a problem. Seems to me the laws need to be taylored for local envirnomental issues. Probably already are in terms of enforcement. Non-biodegradable garbage is another thing. The amount of plastic you see in the water is depressing.
I concur with the pumpout issue. Down here in MIami they are far and few between. Last time I used one the marina charged me $40! A few months ago a sewer pipe broke between Miami Beach and the mainland. Dumped 50 million gallons of raw sewage into the northern end of Biscayne Bay before they shut it off. Then they diverted it to an older network which dumped the raw sewage a couple miles off Miami Beach straight into the ocean for about 3 weeks at a rate of 25 million gallons a day. Environmental disaster? Ecological ruin? Naaaah. No environmental damage was expected or reported, except they had to close the beaches for a few days to be on the safe side. Even there, the concern wasn't human waste but the draino and other chemicals people flush down their drains. They thought there might be a little algae bloom where the spill occurred. To achieve the same amount of sewage as was dumped into the Bay (not counting what was dumped in the ocean), I'd have to fill and pump my 22 gal holding tank about 2 million times (that's a lot of enchiladas). (Or I could take it to the marina pump out and pay $80 million). I don't doubt there are some areas where the water flow is limited and where dumping could have an effect on the environment. But apparently not in Biscayne Bay. It's hard for me to be motivated to take my boat 2 hours out of my way to pay $40 for a pumpout my 22 gal holding tank when 50+ million gal apparently isn't a problem. Seems to me the laws need to be taylored for local envirnomental issues. Probably already are in terms of enforcement. Non-biodegradable garbage is another thing. The amount of plastic you see in the water is depressing.
Vision versus reality problem
Our main problem is that the vision that DC would like to make the standard is a long way from reality, and it may take years before the two can come together. No one should argue that the vision is appropriate, but the reality of what is available now, taking place in our municipal systems, or even occurring from the run off from the environment, industry, farmers and ranchers is far from the vision. But without a vision, we'll never get there. But in the mean while, the enforcement agencies should also recognize the gap.
Our main problem is that the vision that DC would like to make the standard is a long way from reality, and it may take years before the two can come together. No one should argue that the vision is appropriate, but the reality of what is available now, taking place in our municipal systems, or even occurring from the run off from the environment, industry, farmers and ranchers is far from the vision. But without a vision, we'll never get there. But in the mean while, the enforcement agencies should also recognize the gap.
pump out
This is a big concern of mine and I have done a little research about it. What I have found in my area is a little scary. Simply there are no laws or requirements. I sail on the Great South Bay on the south shore of Long Island. Everyone knows about the 3 mile limit in the ocean . But in a small bay such as the Great South Bay most people just pump into the bay. The main reason is that there are not enough pump out stations. There are no local laws or regulations that require them. Most of the marinia owners know about the government offer to provide the equipment. But they are not going to earn any money if they provide the service and they have to maintain the equipment as well as have someone to operate it. And since no one is making them do it they won't. And as a customer if you don't like it you can move on. But where do you go? Try and get into another Marina here on Long Island . Your space will be fill in about 3 seconds. I think local and federal governments should require any marina or boating facility to be liscensed and require a pump out service to have the liscense. I like the idea of a pump out boat that operates with out tax money. For myself I would not have any problem paying a fee out of pocket to get my boat pumped out.------Clint
This is a big concern of mine and I have done a little research about it. What I have found in my area is a little scary. Simply there are no laws or requirements. I sail on the Great South Bay on the south shore of Long Island. Everyone knows about the 3 mile limit in the ocean . But in a small bay such as the Great South Bay most people just pump into the bay. The main reason is that there are not enough pump out stations. There are no local laws or regulations that require them. Most of the marinia owners know about the government offer to provide the equipment. But they are not going to earn any money if they provide the service and they have to maintain the equipment as well as have someone to operate it. And since no one is making them do it they won't. And as a customer if you don't like it you can move on. But where do you go? Try and get into another Marina here on Long Island . Your space will be fill in about 3 seconds. I think local and federal governments should require any marina or boating facility to be liscensed and require a pump out service to have the liscense. I like the idea of a pump out boat that operates with out tax money. For myself I would not have any problem paying a fee out of pocket to get my boat pumped out.------Clint
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