Having selected a 450 as my next boat (used purchase required)I have been both excited and concerned at the number of 450's I have seen for sale used on the Yachtworld.com site. I think there were 11 last time I checked all dating of course from only 1997. My question: does anyone have any idea why so many people have sold their new 450's within such a short period of ownership? This phenomina(sp) appears to be unique to this boat and not duplicated in other newer large volume boats.
- Status
Speaking as one who has sold
I put mine on the market because I moved from liveaboard to land; nothing that had to do with the boat. I have a couple of theories on why the boats are so available. First, it has been a very popular boat for one of its size. I don't have the exact stats, but I'll bet they easily built a hundred of them in its first year ('97). they continued strong in 98, after that I don't know. But, at one time there four of them moored on one dock here in Seattle, and others elsewhere in the marina! Popularity has a bearing on their availability in the used market. I also suspect it attracted some buyers ho are less serious sailors. All the interior volume may have brought a few latent powerboaters into the fold. These may be people who have grown disenchanted with sailing and are selling their 450 so they can put the money into a new SeaRay.
It would be interesting to know the stories behind these 11 boats. If you find anything please let us know.
I put mine on the market because I moved from liveaboard to land; nothing that had to do with the boat. I have a couple of theories on why the boats are so available. First, it has been a very popular boat for one of its size. I don't have the exact stats, but I'll bet they easily built a hundred of them in its first year ('97). they continued strong in 98, after that I don't know. But, at one time there four of them moored on one dock here in Seattle, and others elsewhere in the marina! Popularity has a bearing on their availability in the used market. I also suspect it attracted some buyers ho are less serious sailors. All the interior volume may have brought a few latent powerboaters into the fold. These may be people who have grown disenchanted with sailing and are selling their 450 so they can put the money into a new SeaRay.
It would be interesting to know the stories behind these 11 boats. If you find anything please let us know.The 450 is a unique boat
I have also noticed the phenomenon you mention. On the surface there seems to be a large turnover in a short period of time. I think this boat is quite unique and therefore, I agree with Phil in that it may have drawn some unique groups of buyers: 1. The pseudo-sailors who think they are buying an almost power boat (which it isn't) and 2. A number of wanna be live-a-boards who think that living aboard this boat (because of it's oustanding accomodations) will be like living on land except, you're on a boat on a boat (which it of course can't be). I don't mean this in any way as a criticizm - it's just that living on boats isn't for everyone and for some they need to try it to find out if it's OK. At least one boat in our area is for sale for just this reason. The owner (& family) must move back to shore and they can't afford both the boat and a residence. I have followed the boat quite closely since it's inception (I bought a 460 last year, so the 450 was close to what I wanted but not quite right for me) and I and have not seen any significant problems reported with it. The bonus for you is that you have lots of choice and the good supply should assure that the price won't be inflated. ROwen
I have also noticed the phenomenon you mention. On the surface there seems to be a large turnover in a short period of time. I think this boat is quite unique and therefore, I agree with Phil in that it may have drawn some unique groups of buyers: 1. The pseudo-sailors who think they are buying an almost power boat (which it isn't) and 2. A number of wanna be live-a-boards who think that living aboard this boat (because of it's oustanding accomodations) will be like living on land except, you're on a boat on a boat (which it of course can't be). I don't mean this in any way as a criticizm - it's just that living on boats isn't for everyone and for some they need to try it to find out if it's OK. At least one boat in our area is for sale for just this reason. The owner (& family) must move back to shore and they can't afford both the boat and a residence. I have followed the boat quite closely since it's inception (I bought a 460 last year, so the 450 was close to what I wanted but not quite right for me) and I and have not seen any significant problems reported with it. The bonus for you is that you have lots of choice and the good supply should assure that the price won't be inflated. ROwen
Selling 450s
I just took delivery of a new 450 following the sale of my Legend 45, purchased by me in '88. Twelve years later and many improvements led me to purchase my 6th Hunter. The hull # on my 450 is #230. 230 450's!! That's a lot of boat, particularly of a single model for any manufacturer. We absolutely love the way it sails, handles a large group of people or is easily sailed by my wife and me. Whenever that number of boats is sold, the turnover is going to be high because people get into and out of boating for a myriad of reasons. This one is probably going to be with us as long as our last Hunter. IT IS A GREAT YACHT!
I just took delivery of a new 450 following the sale of my Legend 45, purchased by me in '88. Twelve years later and many improvements led me to purchase my 6th Hunter. The hull # on my 450 is #230. 230 450's!! That's a lot of boat, particularly of a single model for any manufacturer. We absolutely love the way it sails, handles a large group of people or is easily sailed by my wife and me. Whenever that number of boats is sold, the turnover is going to be high because people get into and out of boating for a myriad of reasons. This one is probably going to be with us as long as our last Hunter. IT IS A GREAT YACHT!
Number of 450's
I am sure you knew enough to discount the year 2000 listings, these are dealers selling their new boats, also adjust for the 6 times the person in San Diego has the boat listed, the 2 times the person in Mich. has their boat listed. I have had mine for over three years Hull #18. I know several people who have sold their 450's. Various reasons, moved to a power boat, health reasons, higher than possible expectations (its a boat).... Whether you buy a 450 or not should be your decission, do you like the boat? How many houses do people buy in their lives, they change because of a lot of reasons too! How many cars?
I am sure you knew enough to discount the year 2000 listings, these are dealers selling their new boats, also adjust for the 6 times the person in San Diego has the boat listed, the 2 times the person in Mich. has their boat listed. I have had mine for over three years Hull #18. I know several people who have sold their 450's. Various reasons, moved to a power boat, health reasons, higher than possible expectations (its a boat).... Whether you buy a 450 or not should be your decission, do you like the boat? How many houses do people buy in their lives, they change because of a lot of reasons too! How many cars?
Sounds like an opportunity to me!
The Passage 450 has been a unique product since it's inception. It is BIG, it sails well, it entertains flawlessly, and it has been a low maintenace boat with very few gripes since day one. We took delivery of Hull #176 in May of '98 and have enjoyed the boat ever since. Problems have been few and far between. It is our second Hunter product, the first being a Passage 42 in '93. I suspect the 460 will be AS popular if not MORE popular because Hunter has found the right combination of value and performance! Hunter has two very popular machines in the marketplace at this time, a center cockpit 450, and the aft cockpit 460. Given the fact that they have probably produced well over 350 of the 450's and are off to a great start with the 460, the possibility of having eleven boats on the market at this time doesn't surprise nor shock me. There are many reasons people chose OR NEED to sell their boats. The recent ups and downs of the market doesn't make one feel as comfortable as in the past tying up cash or committing to long term debt. The 450 is in a unique "niche". It is after all a passage boat with systems to support such fucntionality. Weekenders may choose to "downsize" or trade system capabilities in favor of less costly way to keep sailing. This boat, and the 460, have a lot to offer. It is NOT a Cadillac or BMW of the high end market, it is however a step or two above the other "value priced" production boats in the market. There are many Swan's on the market as a percentage of production also. It sounds like an opportunity to purchase a great boat at the right price! One other thing, Hunter has stood behind their products. That is another big PLUS! Happy sailing no matter what your choice!
The Passage 450 has been a unique product since it's inception. It is BIG, it sails well, it entertains flawlessly, and it has been a low maintenace boat with very few gripes since day one. We took delivery of Hull #176 in May of '98 and have enjoyed the boat ever since. Problems have been few and far between. It is our second Hunter product, the first being a Passage 42 in '93. I suspect the 460 will be AS popular if not MORE popular because Hunter has found the right combination of value and performance! Hunter has two very popular machines in the marketplace at this time, a center cockpit 450, and the aft cockpit 460. Given the fact that they have probably produced well over 350 of the 450's and are off to a great start with the 460, the possibility of having eleven boats on the market at this time doesn't surprise nor shock me. There are many reasons people chose OR NEED to sell their boats. The recent ups and downs of the market doesn't make one feel as comfortable as in the past tying up cash or committing to long term debt. The 450 is in a unique "niche". It is after all a passage boat with systems to support such fucntionality. Weekenders may choose to "downsize" or trade system capabilities in favor of less costly way to keep sailing. This boat, and the 460, have a lot to offer. It is NOT a Cadillac or BMW of the high end market, it is however a step or two above the other "value priced" production boats in the market. There are many Swan's on the market as a percentage of production also. It sounds like an opportunity to purchase a great boat at the right price! One other thing, Hunter has stood behind their products. That is another big PLUS! Happy sailing no matter what your choice!
Supply and Demand
My wife and I just bought hull #244 and we are sitting on the hard right now, waiting to have her commissioned. The reason for the delay is there is another new 450 right next to us, also being commissioned. I don't know what hull # Hunter is up to at this point, but that is an incredible number of boats for this size and in the relatively short period of time they have been on the market. I know tow of the boats for sale. My wife and I looked at them. One is being sold because the couple who owned it is 86 and 84 years old and they decided to give up sailing and buy a Trawler. It says a lot for a boat this size thatc an be handled by a couple in their 80's. Another boat is one that went on the market before the end of the first season the person owned it. He ordered it brand new and even had his own dock built for it since he lives on a river feeding into the Chesapeake. Only one small problem. His family hates boating and it was the first sail boat he had ever owned. Too much pressure!! Anyway, 11 boats on the market is not all that many when you consider the price range, value and market. Hope that helps.
My wife and I just bought hull #244 and we are sitting on the hard right now, waiting to have her commissioned. The reason for the delay is there is another new 450 right next to us, also being commissioned. I don't know what hull # Hunter is up to at this point, but that is an incredible number of boats for this size and in the relatively short period of time they have been on the market. I know tow of the boats for sale. My wife and I looked at them. One is being sold because the couple who owned it is 86 and 84 years old and they decided to give up sailing and buy a Trawler. It says a lot for a boat this size thatc an be handled by a couple in their 80's. Another boat is one that went on the market before the end of the first season the person owned it. He ordered it brand new and even had his own dock built for it since he lives on a river feeding into the Chesapeake. Only one small problem. His family hates boating and it was the first sail boat he had ever owned. Too much pressure!! Anyway, 11 boats on the market is not all that many when you consider the price range, value and market. Hope that helps.
- Status