Making an offer... some advice please

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Feb 20, 2010
11
n/a n/a Portland, OR
I have been watching this particular boat for about 6 months.

My house closes in a couple weeks and then its time to make the switch to living aboard.

Anyhow, here is the boat.

http://www.yachtworld.com/boats/1980/Hunter-Sloop-2104101/Bainbridge-Island/WA/United-States

They are asking $32k... Would an offer of $25k be unreasonable for this?

I am unfamiliar with these, and have not yet had a survey. It seems well cared for, but it has been for sale for at least 6 months without a price drop. My budget will not permit me to pay full price, but if I could get it for $25k I could live out my life a happy man.

Its a pretty loaded question, I know. But in a couple weeks I will be homeless with $31k in my pocket. I just need to know if I should quit pining over this boat and move on.

Thanks!
 
Jan 2, 2009
93
Gulfstar 50 ketch holland
All you can do is ask I got a 37c for $25000. If you like the 36 I also looked at one in whitehall Mi could still be for sale also two 37c's for sale on lake mich. It's a buyer's market and you could get a freshwater boat cheap.Are you looking to cruise? buy a boat on the lake's and headout to wherever.
 
Jun 2, 2004
5,802
Hunter 37-cutter, '79 41 23' 30"N 82 33' 20"W--------Huron, OH
Assuming a good survey this boat is worth at least $32000. Depends upon how desperate the owner is to sell I suppose. I am intrigued by the H36 as the owner of a '79 H37C. It appears, with one exception, you have more interior room than mine. Without a separate shower you get some cabinetry in the v-berth and probably a longer salon. The exception is no quarterberth. The cockpit lockers must be huge. I wonder if this one sold: http://www.sailingtexas.com/shunter36103.html . Notice that it has a newer 30hp Yanmar. The 20hp in your boat is a good, solid engine. It is what was in mine. But it is heavy and slightly low on power for that displacement boat. I am envious of the really nice canvas though. Proximity to where you live is important. Do you have to move it far? I love the Cherubini lines obviously and would buy a boat like that in a minute.
 
Dec 19, 2006
5,818
Hunter 36 Punta Gorda
Can't Hurt

It's a game some times the buyer ask this high price and he thinks if some one is willing to pay the price he is a happy guy but is it the real price he really wants because he knows every one is going to offer less so he starts high.
But maybe other interested buyers already checked it out and were not happy so they move on,make him a serious offer on what you think you are willing to offer him and see what he says and than he and you may go up and down on the price.
I put my boat up for sale for more than 6 months not one serious offer,traded it in for my new 07 H-36 and the dealer did not really want my 2000 290 because he already had two others and within 0ne month had a buyer from Canada and was sold.
Make offer and than try to look it over real good.
Nick
 
Jun 21, 2007
2,117
Hunter Cherubini 36_80-82 Sausalito / San Francisco Bay
I bought my 1980 H36 2.5 years ago for $22.5K. It was my first boat. Since then I've been over virtually every inch and system. I've had absolutely no regrets with the decision. The engine is still the stock 2QM20H which still looks fine externally and starts/runs without a hitch. Yes, at ~20hp the boat probably is a bit under powered. Could be an issue for your location when motoring between inland passage islands where I understand currents can be very swift. In SF Bay, I've had no under power problems.

By the description on your website link, your target boat looks to be better equipped and maintained than mine was ... but also on mine the standing rigging was new, the canvas in very good shape, new interior cushions/upholstry, and the PO had bought, but not yet installed the auto-pilot and GPS navigation (still in the boxes which came with the purchase).

For your case, another 2.5 years has gone by thus some more depreciation. A well equiped/maintained used boat should command some premium over one that is just so-so. But a general reality is that the main advantage to a seller of a well maintained boat is that he can sell it, compared to a lesser maintained one of the same model. But the seller never will get back anywhere near the full price of the upgrades. About six months ago a Cherubini H36, with a wonderful description of upgrades was listed in the SF area on craigs' list for a couple of months at ~$22,000 from memory. The posting renewals stopped after about a month, so I presume it was sold. Certainly a bid for your boat in the mid'ish $20k range would not be out of the question. If the owner/broker knows you are a serious buyer with the resources to fund, you should be able to negotiate. Just don't get stuck on the one boat.

Last comment is that although us owners of the Cherubini Hunters think the world of them as sturdy well built nicely laid-out boats (fine for live-a-board), that also don't seem to have any issues any better/worse than other brands, I've noticed that the Cherubini Hunters almost always sell on the second hand market at considerable discounts to other factory production boats of the same era and size (such as Catalina and Ericson). In my case I observed a $15,000+ difference to other brands built in the early 1980's which was a major attraction. So don't let the broker try to talk you up by comparing to sales of these boats. Looking at the pictures of your prospective boat, I notice that the primary winches are the original stock ... a fine Bariant winch, but NOT self-tailing. Self-tailing is now standard equipment for almost all sailors. List price of replacing these is on the order of $3000-$3500. You can use this fact to harp on during your negotiations.

If you are new to boat ownership (and even if you've done this before), almost everybody who posts on this forum (and the "ask-all-sailors forum as well) says that a survey is a must. If the surveyor raises some issues, they can be used to extract maybe a bit more concession from the seller. Also you can query on this forum how serious the issue really is.

Good luck on your quest! Note: Get a copy of a book called "Inspecting the Aging Sailboat" by Don Casey. Available at Amazon and Barnes Noble. It contains a wealth of info and "how-to" that any propective buyer should now.
 
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Nov 8, 2007
1,578
Hunter 27_75-84 Sandusky Harbor Marina, Ohio
Market Prices are Down

A Cherubini 33 in our marina dropped from high 20's to 20 before selling over last year. I would certainly try $25,000 or a little lower. If the seller is living in the past, he won't sell. But if he has been watching the market for boat _sales_ versus listings, he may well take your offer.

In my opinion, getting a good h33 for anything below 30 is a great value. But this market has great values for buyers!
 
Oct 12, 2009
63
beneteau 321 digby
you can offer whatever you are willing to pay all he can say is no he may be glad to get rid of it i say go for it make an offer sll he can say is no
 
Jun 2, 2004
5,802
Hunter 37-cutter, '79 41 23' 30"N 82 33' 20"W--------Huron, OH
So "Rardi", am I correct that there is no quarterberth? And the lazarettes are huge? What about the mast, is it deck stepped? I always wondered why Hunter made two boats that are so similar in size and features, the H36 and the H37C. And I wonder if the hulls are really from different molds. Hey David, we're talkin' H36 not H33. Or are you suggesting they should be about the same in price?
 

emkay

.
May 6, 2008
70
Hunter 27 Buffalo
That's reasonable, I offered about 65% of list for my boat, and the counteroffer was acceptable, only $500 above my offer. That's a nice boat, I have it on m list for my next boat.
 
May 31, 2007
763
Hunter 37 cutter Blind River
Two years ago I bought my H37C out of the Detroit area for 19K. OK - so I have to rebuild the decks and am replacing the sails (which are still serviceable). I have since seen even better deals. The bottom line - if you love the boat, get a survey and make an offer. Remember that you will spend tons of money on replacing items like the old electronics, old cushion foam etc. as well as docking and insurance. Depending on your needs and finances, you might be just as happy with a smaller vessel like the H33 or H27. In any event, there are many many very reasonably priced vessels on the market.
 
Nov 8, 2007
1,578
Hunter 27_75-84 Sandusky Harbor Marina, Ohio
Sorry, Ed

It was a 33 that sold for under $20,000. My point was that the price dropped from nearly $30,000 before selling.

The second point was that a 36 for $30,000 is good value, but the market is way down - I would sure offer $25,000 if I wanted the boat.
 
Feb 20, 2010
11
n/a n/a Portland, OR
thanks for all the great replies.

this will be my first boat. I have about 5 that I am eyeing right now, but the H36 tops the list.

My market is limited to the Portland, OR / Seattle, WA area. I am in Portland and there are not many boats available in my size/price range. Seattle has a lot more to offer, but since I am an extreme novice, I will be having someone bring the boat to Portland for me. Looking outside this area, there are a lot of boats at pretty good prices, but I cannot sail them home and hiring someone to do it will be cost prohibitive.

I have a surveyor lined up, as well as a captain to bring it home. I am planning on heading up and scheduling the survey, then likely making a cash-in-hand offer.

Once home, Ill be full-time liveaboard. Taking weekly lessons until I am proficient enough to take her out on my own. I went and toured the marina Saturday and got a nice spot reserved for me. Hopefully my 8 months of planning will pay off.
 
Sep 26, 2008
566
- - Noank CT.
Make the offer (start low) and work up or make one a offer and tell the broker he gets one shot at it only, no counter offer etc etc. Got to try before you walk away from boat...it is a little like asking a girl out on your first date ..never know if she will say yes until you ask the question !
 
Jun 21, 2007
2,117
Hunter Cherubini 36_80-82 Sausalito / San Francisco Bay
Ed:

I'll reply in more detail tonight re your H36c vs H37c questions. Right now I'm about ready to try to emulate Bode Miller ... not a quest for gold, but with the goal of getting from the top to the bottom of the mountain on skis still in one piece!

rardi
 
Dec 10, 2009
12
Samson C-farer 39 D'Escousse, NS
well, here are the general rules in horse trading....
once you place a bid/ offer, you can't go lower..
start with a bid lower than you would like to pay, and then counter their return offer by half
when you come to a set price, place a down payment and a written agreement of the price...
always shack hands on the deal. horse trading is still done with honor... weather your a lawyer or not...
happy trail and hard sailing... Jerome
 
Jun 21, 2009
110
Hunter 27 Sparrows Point
It's a decent (not great) price for the size and age. And I guaran-tooten-tee ya the broker is driving that amount. You haven't seen it in person yet? Cool your heels then. Since this is your first foray into sailboat ownership, you should be going to every marina within a half days drive and going on as many boats as possible, and if at the end of the day that H36 is still "The One", you will have the satisfaction of knowing there wasn't anything better.
Time is still on your side.
 
May 31, 2007
763
Hunter 37 cutter Blind River
Yes, you can make a second, lower offer. First offer; what you are willing to pay based on what you know about the vessel, subject to survey, financing, marital status and any other reasonable disclaimer you can throw in - like approval by your father-in-law. Then if the survey shows up anything unexpected or you get COLD feet, then you can refer to new information and do another deal - like throw in the dinghy, outboard and season's docking in return for the poor wiring, osmosis etc - or just save a bunch of cash off the original agreed price. The broker will likely start pressuring the owner to drop price and expectations, running the boat down using the survey, just to get a deal and commission. That, of course, if it is being sold through a broker. And your greatest negotiating power? You can walk away with your cash in pocket. They know that. Feel free to use it. But always be a gentleman. Reputations somehow spread really fast through the professional community.
 
Jun 21, 2007
2,117
Hunter Cherubini 36_80-82 Sausalito / San Francisco Bay
I'm enjoying how this thread has morphed into advice (good) about the process of negotiating a purchase.

For shibbershabber, if you do some searching, you should be able to find info about the mechanics of buying selling boats through a broker. I strongly suggest that you do this. The broker is an expert and he his representing the seller, not the buyer. Just like buying and selling real-estate, you need to know the rules. Just like real-estate brokers, yacht brokers belong to an association and are mandated to abide by its and also State rules and regulations.

At one point in my working career, I made a living negotiating commercial vessel charters for mineral products like iron ore, coal, copper, manganese. One "rule" that existed in the international ocean vessel market was no "back trading" ... defined as countering a counter-offer either lower or higher (as the case may be) in the opposite direction from your previous position. But if the situation had changed from the time of the previous offer (such as the market suddenly moved in the opposite direction to your interests), but you still wanted book the vessel, then the proper course of action was to decline the opponent's last offer and walk away. Then start all over afresh. The other party might agree to re-open the negotiation, or might not.

In the case of a boat negotiation, if the seller doesn't reduce his previous offer/counter-offer, and you don't want to increase your bid, you should just repeat your last. You have no obligation to meet "in the middle". If you have a change of heart and don't want the boat at your last price, then decline the seller's last counter-offer. The negotiation is technically over and you can walk away.

I certainly agree with sandpiper that if new info comes to light, you can later ask for a price adjustment, or you are free to walk away. But you need to make sure that you have it clear in your opening offer that the offer is subject to your agreement to the findings of the survey, and subject to anything else that you feel is germane.

When I bought my boat through the seller's broker (who I thought was great, honest, professional, and successfully served the important function of intermediary between seller and buyer), the seller wouldn't reduce to my level, but it was close. I told the seller and broker that I needed a sweetener to continue. I proposed that the broker reduce his commission a bit that he charged to the seller and credit the savings to me. Also I needed to keep the boat on the hard in broker's affiliated company yard (which had open spots unlikely to be filled) so I could work on it and until I could secure a berth in my home port. I suggested a discount to the normal monthly fee yard fee. The broker agreed to both. The boat had been listed for over a year, and buyers weren't exactly lined-up, so the broker was motivated. Also, based upon my own "pre-survey", I had already factored into the purchase price certain repair and improvement items I knew were needed later. But when the formal survey was completed some unexpected faults were found. I said that I would maintain the agreed purchase price, but that a futher $x repair allowance would be deducted. The Seller agreed. (One point on these type of allowances: If in Washington state, as in California, you pay an annual property tax that is based upon the purchase price, the tax basis is the agreed price, not the price less the allowances.)

I mention all this to show that each negotiation is unique. Be creative. And as already commented by others, don't fall in love with any specific boat. If the negotiation doesn't go your way, move on. And get the book I previous mentioned: "Inspecting the Aging Sailboat" by Don Casey. There's a lot to know about owning a boat. As with anything else, its not intimidating once you become familar. But better you get into this new lifestyle with info in hand.
 
Feb 20, 2010
11
n/a n/a Portland, OR
Ive ordered "Inspecting the Aging Sailboat"

Is it acceptable to make a low-ball offer pending the outcome of the survey, or is it best to have the survey done first, then make the offer?

thanks
 
Oct 12, 2009
63
beneteau 321 digby
offers

well if your buying the boat is contingent on getting a survey than its probably not a good idea to make an offer until the boat is surveyed.I have been in situations where i have seen a boat or item for that matter and had a certain amount of cash I was willing to spend so I have made an offer sight unseen by basically saying "if this is what you say it is and i can verify that by giving it a once over would you be willing to consider x amount of dollars"that way if the guy says yes you go look at it if the guy says no then your not watsing your time or his.Plus asking someone if they are willing to consider something is not locking yourself into an agreement but it does give you a pretty good idea that the guy will accept what you are willing to pay.As far as low balling Im not much of a bargainer I have two criteria basically the value of the item and what I can afford.these two things ultimately dictate rather I make a purchase or not.I try to use other people the way I would want to be used.Nothing wrong with getting a good deal but its nice when both people come out of it feeling good.
 
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