Has enybody out there ever tried to improve the Hunter 33's pointing ability by bringing in the jib leads inside of the toerail? If so where did you locate the track , and how did you fasten it down. Do you have a flat main or a full main. Do you have rollerfurling. Was it worth the work and the time envolved
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Installed inside track
I installed 4 foot tracks on the decking inside the toe rails. I lined up the track so that the forward part is heading towards the standing rigging. The rear of the rails is a couple inches from the cabin side. If I were to do it again, I would install 2 foot tracks. There were many holes to drill through the deck, and that was the hard part. Since the liner doesn't drop down on the H33, I drilled through the deck and the liner. I found that there was a space between the liner and the underside of the decking in many places, ranging from an inch or so to nothing. I used SS hardware with large washers for backing. In order to get the washers and lock-nuts through the holes in the liner, I had to bore those holes to the size of the washers. I also had to watch out for the bulkhead location between the head and the small berth on the starboard side. The port side I had to worry about the storage areas above the stove. I screwed everything down with good coating of silicon to bed the rails. If you want to do the job right, you should drill the holes larger than the hardware, fill with thickened epoxy, and re-drill the holes to the hardware size. This will keep any water from getting into the wood sandwiched between the fiberglass. I have 2-year old North sails, a new 2X2 main, and a 150% radial cut roller furling genoa. This racing season I took a couple second places flags and a third place flag. Do I point better? YES! I didn't take any pictures, and the boat is covered up for the season. I will try to remember to take some photos next spring and post the here on HOW. Ken Palmer, S/V Liberty http://www/LakeOntarioSailing.com
I installed 4 foot tracks on the decking inside the toe rails. I lined up the track so that the forward part is heading towards the standing rigging. The rear of the rails is a couple inches from the cabin side. If I were to do it again, I would install 2 foot tracks. There were many holes to drill through the deck, and that was the hard part. Since the liner doesn't drop down on the H33, I drilled through the deck and the liner. I found that there was a space between the liner and the underside of the decking in many places, ranging from an inch or so to nothing. I used SS hardware with large washers for backing. In order to get the washers and lock-nuts through the holes in the liner, I had to bore those holes to the size of the washers. I also had to watch out for the bulkhead location between the head and the small berth on the starboard side. The port side I had to worry about the storage areas above the stove. I screwed everything down with good coating of silicon to bed the rails. If you want to do the job right, you should drill the holes larger than the hardware, fill with thickened epoxy, and re-drill the holes to the hardware size. This will keep any water from getting into the wood sandwiched between the fiberglass. I have 2-year old North sails, a new 2X2 main, and a 150% radial cut roller furling genoa. This racing season I took a couple second places flags and a third place flag. Do I point better? YES! I didn't take any pictures, and the boat is covered up for the season. I will try to remember to take some photos next spring and post the here on HOW. Ken Palmer, S/V Liberty http://www/LakeOntarioSailing.com
Why not upgrade to a B& R rig? 
Aw, c'mon, Cherubini lovers. You've got great-looking, classic design boats! Now you want them to sail against the wind as well? (Sorry, couldn't resist the temptation for a cheap shot ;-))) Wishing y'all a wonderful Thanksgiving!! Flying Dutchman
Aw, c'mon, Cherubini lovers. You've got great-looking, classic design boats! Now you want them to sail against the wind as well? (Sorry, couldn't resist the temptation for a cheap shot ;-))) Wishing y'all a wonderful Thanksgiving!! Flying Dutchman
Why?
A B & R rig on a 33 is absurd. $6000 to $10,00o could be much better spent, and the hull form and keel on the 33 make it unnecessary. I installed 8 foot 1 1/4" track running parallel to the centerline, just off the coach roof on my 33 this past spring. I drilled 1 1/2' holes through the deck but not through the liner. The resultant 64 holes were filled with thickened epoxy tro form a mushroomong sort of plug which connected the deck and liner as one solid piece. I then drilled through the whole thing and mounted with VERY large stainless fender washers and lots of silicone. There are no leaks yet ant the setup has stood up to 35 knot breezes without a whimper. T e extra length allows me to set for any sail in any wind. If anything, I would add another 2 feet or so to the track.
A B & R rig on a 33 is absurd. $6000 to $10,00o could be much better spent, and the hull form and keel on the 33 make it unnecessary. I installed 8 foot 1 1/4" track running parallel to the centerline, just off the coach roof on my 33 this past spring. I drilled 1 1/2' holes through the deck but not through the liner. The resultant 64 holes were filled with thickened epoxy tro form a mushroomong sort of plug which connected the deck and liner as one solid piece. I then drilled through the whole thing and mounted with VERY large stainless fender washers and lots of silicone. There are no leaks yet ant the setup has stood up to 35 knot breezes without a whimper. T e extra length allows me to set for any sail in any wind. If anything, I would add another 2 feet or so to the track.
8 foot and more?
I wonder how far back your tracks go? Is your sail larger than 150%? My experience since I installed my 4-foot tracks is that I rarely use the inside track if I have the sail furled for foul weather. The large 150% has to travel between the standing rigging and the lifelines, so if I used a smaller sail or furl the big one, the rail would have to be in line with the standing rigging. I suppose that if I used a 100%, I could run the sheet on the inside of the rigging. However, if the wind is that high, I don't want to be out there playing in it. Ken Palmer, S/V Liberty
I wonder how far back your tracks go? Is your sail larger than 150%? My experience since I installed my 4-foot tracks is that I rarely use the inside track if I have the sail furled for foul weather. The large 150% has to travel between the standing rigging and the lifelines, so if I used a smaller sail or furl the big one, the rail would have to be in line with the standing rigging. I suppose that if I used a 100%, I could run the sheet on the inside of the rigging. However, if the wind is that high, I don't want to be out there playing in it. Ken Palmer, S/V Liberty
Tune-ups
I can definitely sympathise with anyone frustrated in trying to tweak a little more performance out of his boat. The pointing problem is particularly distressing to hear about on either a 33 or a 37 as these boats were built closest to what my father thought a good boat should be, meaning that they should be terrific. The first and most important thing I would suggest is to have the rig examined. Let me see if I remember this... if the mast is too vertical, which is a common oversight, you will have a lee helm, and I am hearing that the boats' resistance to sailing close-hauled is a common complaint. The fact is that my father drew plenty of mast rake (backwards lean) into every design. This and the tumblehome (the topsides' curving back in to the deck) are his trademarks– look at the C-44. He was a champion in the Thistle, a little boat I have never attempted simply because part of being competitive is adjusting mast rake on the fly– the mast is actually stepped in a track on the keel and moved with block and tackle. Racers on Star boats and J-boats use mast rake to point better and even a Laser is noted for that incredibly bent spar on the wind, predisposing the boat, if you will, to favour turning towards the weather. It could be very likely that a yard or owner has tuned his rig with the mast too vertical. Readjusting the forestay and backstay and the forward and after lower shrouds to produce even another 4-6 inches of rake (measured at the masthead) will have a dramatic effect, giving the boat a bit more weather helm by moving the centre of effort (geometric centre of the sail plan) farther aft. But a CAVEAT– without having looked at the plans yet I have to caution anyone against trying to make too big a change at a time. Go prudently and seek help from experienced people. If I were there I could supervise it for you, but I can't be, so take the responsibility for the suggestion in your own way. But I assure you this is a common problem on many boats and very likely to be a problem here. It is not family pride but many years' careful scholarship in my dad's work that prompts me to remind you the guy was good at what he did and lived meagrely probably because he tended to design good-performing boats without regard to marketing pressures or his own wallet. J Cherubini II
I can definitely sympathise with anyone frustrated in trying to tweak a little more performance out of his boat. The pointing problem is particularly distressing to hear about on either a 33 or a 37 as these boats were built closest to what my father thought a good boat should be, meaning that they should be terrific. The first and most important thing I would suggest is to have the rig examined. Let me see if I remember this... if the mast is too vertical, which is a common oversight, you will have a lee helm, and I am hearing that the boats' resistance to sailing close-hauled is a common complaint. The fact is that my father drew plenty of mast rake (backwards lean) into every design. This and the tumblehome (the topsides' curving back in to the deck) are his trademarks– look at the C-44. He was a champion in the Thistle, a little boat I have never attempted simply because part of being competitive is adjusting mast rake on the fly– the mast is actually stepped in a track on the keel and moved with block and tackle. Racers on Star boats and J-boats use mast rake to point better and even a Laser is noted for that incredibly bent spar on the wind, predisposing the boat, if you will, to favour turning towards the weather. It could be very likely that a yard or owner has tuned his rig with the mast too vertical. Readjusting the forestay and backstay and the forward and after lower shrouds to produce even another 4-6 inches of rake (measured at the masthead) will have a dramatic effect, giving the boat a bit more weather helm by moving the centre of effort (geometric centre of the sail plan) farther aft. But a CAVEAT– without having looked at the plans yet I have to caution anyone against trying to make too big a change at a time. Go prudently and seek help from experienced people. If I were there I could supervise it for you, but I can't be, so take the responsibility for the suggestion in your own way. But I assure you this is a common problem on many boats and very likely to be a problem here. It is not family pride but many years' careful scholarship in my dad's work that prompts me to remind you the guy was good at what he did and lived meagrely probably because he tended to design good-performing boats without regard to marketing pressures or his own wallet. J Cherubini II
what's a B and R rig
Pardon my ignorance but Iam just an old thistle sailor who brobably should know what a B and R rig is but ,...........duhhhhhhha
Pardon my ignorance but Iam just an old thistle sailor who brobably should know what a B and R rig is but ,...........duhhhhhhha
B & R Rig is .........
B & R are the initials of a couple of very smart Norwegian guys named Bergstrom and Ridder. Lars Bergstrom was an aircraft engineer. He and Ridder are behind the design of the sailboat mast rig designs known as B & R rigs. He is known also for a device most folks have on top of their mast, the apparent wind indicator or Windex(R). Lars Bergstrom was killed in a plane crash flying an experimental aircraft about 4 years ago I think in Florida. Wayne, s/v Wind Drift - h340
B & R are the initials of a couple of very smart Norwegian guys named Bergstrom and Ridder. Lars Bergstrom was an aircraft engineer. He and Ridder are behind the design of the sailboat mast rig designs known as B & R rigs. He is known also for a device most folks have on top of their mast, the apparent wind indicator or Windex(R). Lars Bergstrom was killed in a plane crash flying an experimental aircraft about 4 years ago I think in Florida. Wayne, s/v Wind Drift - h340
Mr. J Cherubini is right...
I read Mr. Cherubini's reply, and before replacing anything, adding anything, I would experiment with tuning the rig. I have sail my 33 for over 18years now, and I have found the boat to be extremely responsive to retuning. I have used books like "Sail Power" and "Storm Sailing" to improve and refresh my understanding of cause and effects of tuning the rig and sail trim for different wind conditions. I have also noticed that this boat is extremely effected when it has a dirty bottom. Not only speed is affected, but also handling with respect to increase in weather or lee helm. Hope this helps.
I read Mr. Cherubini's reply, and before replacing anything, adding anything, I would experiment with tuning the rig. I have sail my 33 for over 18years now, and I have found the boat to be extremely responsive to retuning. I have used books like "Sail Power" and "Storm Sailing" to improve and refresh my understanding of cause and effects of tuning the rig and sail trim for different wind conditions. I have also noticed that this boat is extremely effected when it has a dirty bottom. Not only speed is affected, but also handling with respect to increase in weather or lee helm. Hope this helps.
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