Mainsheet system and reeving

[kbgunn]

My 1986 Catalina 30 TR/SK has mid boom sheeting and a Garhauer traveler. The main sheet setup from the PO seems very complicated and doesn't easily ease out all the way for runs. Also, when trimming in, most times the various blocks don't sheet evenly and jam up when sheeting in.... I've posted pics below:

Is there a way to simplify what I've got without buying new blocks? I like having the cam cleat at the fiddle block. Can I re-route the reeving to get better operation?

KBG

 

[jssailem]

@kbgunn unlikely a reroute will have much impact. You can go to a smaller diameter lighter line. That will make it easier for the line to run through the blocks.
Note the multiple contact points (3) on the boom is to spread the force of the Mainsheet control over a wide space on the boom. If only one point is used you can break the boom in two.
Trim adjustments are set the Mainsheet then adjust using the traveler.

 

[Jackdaw]

Oh that’s a Rube Goldberg setup. The thick squishy line is probably part at fault, as well as that top middle fiddle block with the tiny lower wheel. Don’t underestimate the amount of fiction loss created by all those turns with less than great blocks. It’s a really sticky 8:1 system.

 

[jeepbluetj]

I know you said you don't want to buy new blocks - but I bet you need new blocks. Those look like the stock blocks that came with the boat - mine were shot. Garhaurer can fix you up.

 

[Joe]

Replace that fiddle block w/becket in the center with a properly sized, side by side double. Lock the swivel on the new blocks shackle so it won't rotate.

 

[SG]

Replace that fiddle block w/becket in the center with a properly sized, side by side double. Lock the swivel on the new blocks shackle so it won't rotate.

Does that swivel lock?

 

[Ward H]

The previous comments come from guys with tons more experience than I have but having just set up my C30 mainsheet system I'll offer my comments.

Is there a way to simplify what I've got without buying new blocks? I like having the cam cleat at the fiddle block. Can I re-route the reeving to get better operation?

If it was a reeving problem, those guys would have pointed it out. As they said, smaller line will always run easier so I agree it will help.

The Garhauer fiddle block with becket and cam cleat isn't the issue. That was a sweet upgrade.

The real problem is the PO didn't buy matching quality/size blocks to go with it. That one double block with becket and the single blocks are a mix of type and size. Probably the originals as @jeepbluetj pointed out.

Example, look at how the line fits that fiddle block with cam cleat. Fits fine, you can see the sides of the sheaves in the block. Then look at the forward Lewmar block. You can't see the sheave. That block is too small as is that center double block with becket on the boom. The other single blocks appear to be sized OK for the line size.

Then loosen the sheet so you can spin each sheave. Compare the ease they spin to the sheaves on that newer Garhauer block. Bet most if not all don't spin well due to not having ball bearings or they are worn out and don't spin easily.

I'd start by replacing that center fiddle block on the boom as @Joe recommended and the forward Lewmar block with the same size as that double block.
That would solve the problem of the blocks being to small for the line and add ball bearings to 3 of the turning points.
Garhauer's series 30 and series 40 blocks can handle up to 1/2" line. The double is only available in a series 40 but you can go with the series 30 for the singles. Single 30s are $35 and the series 40 double is $90.
That would probably solve most of your problem.
If the sheet line is 7/16", which was the spec see for the C30, it would be cheaper to go down to 3/8" but I think you would have much less improvement than spending a little more for the two blocks.

Then if the rest of the single blocks do not have ball bearings, replace them as you can.

Good luck!

 

[Ward H]

Does that swivel lock?

The spec doesn't say it does but I don't think it needs to in that position.
The single block spec's do say they can be locked.

 

[mortyd]

you may have a garhauer traveler but you sure don't have a garhauer mainsheet.

 

[pateco]

My main sheet also has three boom connections. Originally it was run through two singles and a becket on the boom with a fiddle on the traveler car, forward along the boom, with two more single blocks and then through the deck organizer, and back to the cabin-top winch and cam cleat. This had a lot of friction, and not much advantage.

I modified mine so that is has three single blocks on the boom, and a triple with cam and becket on the traveler. I get much better advantage, and it flows in and out more smoothly.

I think your system is set up with too many blocks. I agree with those who suggest you simplify it. More mechanical advantage than you need, and too much friction.

 

[jssailem]

not having ball bearings or they are worn out

Golly @Ward H, for a guy

having just set up my C30 mainsheet system

you nailed it.The student has become the teacher.
The other possibility is that the blocks may not have been cleaned for eons. It is a good idea to occasionally (once every 5-6 years) wash out the blocks with mild soap and lots of water.You'll be surprised at what it does.

Is there a way to simplify what I've got without buying new blocks? I like having the cam cleat at the fiddle block. Can I re-route the reeving to get better operation? KBG

The answer is no. You can reduce the affects by changing the line size to more match the blocks you have. You can change the links you are using to connect the blocks to the boom (they are not the standard way to set up these blocks). You can clean the blocks and may be able to lubricate bearings, but the bottom line is the best solution would be to spend money on new blocks for the 8-1 system along the boom. Note you need a more powerful system (8-1 vs 6-1 or 3-1) when your mainsheet system is "Mid-Boom". Changing to a fewer block system will mean more forces required out of crew or skipper to pull in/adjust the mainsheet. When end of boom the system can be less "complicated - fewer blocks" as it requires less force to adjust boom position. But that would put the mainsheet system in the middle of your cockpit. Boats are all about compromise.

 

[Stu Jackson]

Most Catalinas of that vintage came with blocks on the boom that swiveled. Truly dumb. It looks like some of the blocks on the boom swivel, and they shouldn't, because that is one of the contributing factors in the line getting hung up.

 

[SG]

One issue in reducing from the 8:1 is that you don't have a real winch-it-in option.

I think that reducing the line (go with a Spectra or other high-tech, low stretch line) to one that will work in your and your crew members' hands. You don't ever want to have to wrap the line around your hand to be able to trim it.

 

[Jackdaw]

I would NOT go lower than 6:1 on your mid-boom sheet. That's are the very edge ofusefulness on a sail that size with mid-boom sheeting,, and the 'W' arrangement of the sheeting actually makes it less than 6:1! The angle off of vertical decreases purchase.

 

[jssailem]

You don't ever want to have to wrap the line around your hand to be able to trim it.

If you are wrapping the line around you hand you may get in a situation where you will loose your hand. That is why engineers developed the winch.

You can reduce the force needed with a good series of blocks.
You can improve your hand grip by increasing the diameter of the line.
You can improve the efficiency of the current blocks as @Stu Jackson suggests.

“Your boat your choice” (another Stu’ism)

 

[Ward H]

One issue in reducing from the 8:1 is that you don't have a real winch-it-in option.

That was my thought, the reason for the 8:1 instead of a 6:1 system is by putting the cam cleat on the block, you lose the winch capability.
My system is 6:1 but goes through 4 more turns to run back to cockpit, like @pateco had, so a winch is needed. I think the reason for this type system is to clear a dodger. I have a triple block on my traveler but the other blocks were non BB so I upgraded to all Garhauer series 40 blocks for singles and single with becket. I also put BB sheaves in the deck organizer.

@jssailem explained well in one thread that you set the main sheet, then use the traveler to dump air and or when tacking. I didn't really understand it at the time. Then on a recent sail in high winds (18-20 with gusts >25), once the main sheet was set, using the winch to adjust and lock the sheet, we only used the traveler. Worked really well.

On my O'day 25 I "played" the main sheet. On my C30 I'm "playing" the traveler.

I'm sure @kbgunn 's system would be fine except whoever upgrade the fiddle block with cam cleat and becket on the traveler reused old blocks that are not ball bearing blocks and are too small for that line. He needs to complete the system upgrade.

Most Catalinas of that vintage came with blocks on the boom that swiveled. Truly dumb.

All my single blocks swivel and have been fine but I only have 3-4 hours sailing time on my C30 where I used the main sail. Thanks for the reminder to lock them into position.

The answer is no. You can reduce the affects by changing the line size to more match the blocks you have. You can change the links you are using to connect the blocks to the boom (they are not the standard way to set up these blocks). You can clean the blocks and may be able to lubricate bearings, but the bottom line is the best solution would be to spend money on new blocks for the 8-1 system along the boom. Note you need a more powerful system (8-1 vs 6-1 or 3-1) when your mainsheet system is "Mid-Boom". Changing to a fewer block system will mean more forces required out of crew or skipper to pull in/adjust the mainsheet. When end of boom the system can be less "complicated - fewer blocks" as it requires less force to adjust boom position. But that would put the mainsheet system in the middle of your cockpit. Boats are all about compromise.

Good answer.

 

[Kingjim91]

Here’s the diagram for the original reeling, with the tail run back to the winch.
I have no issue with 6:1 using the winch.

 

[kbgunn]

Here’s the diagram for the original reeling, with the tail run back to the winch.
I have no issue with 6:1 using the winch.
View attachment 152703

Awesome. Thanks @Kingjim91 ! The diagram leads me to believe the fiddle block with the smaller sheave at the bottom is definitely original. I think I can move my blocks up from the traveler to the bails on the boom and end up with a 6:1 configuration. That will be a start and I'll adjust from there. Thanks for all of the constructive feedback! This forum is fantastic.