Main sail question

[allen-deckard]

This spring I plan on buying a new main sail.

When I was at the anapolis sailboat show I went around to all the booths that were selling sails. Well they all say there sails are the best obviously and I saw more different types of sails than I thought existed.

Well one of the vendors I talked to for sometime mainly cause they were the nicest group of guys and seemed to be the most patient with me

Anyway their sail according to them from what I could understand (there was alot I didn't but thats ok) had basically a line vertically threw the center of the sail that the sail "rotated" on according to them.
Additionally according to them in a puff the sail would flatten out and reduced the amount of heel that the boat would experience because of the way it rotated around that center line.

Ok normally when someone is alot smarter than me on a subject I just absorb what I hear and accept what they say as fact unless in this case they are selling me something then I'm a bit more sceptical. His sails pitch (punn intended) sure sounded good I gotta say that but if something sounds to good to be true it usually is as the saying goes.

SOO my question
Is this bs? I admit that I'm a sailing noob but I cant seem to rap my noggin around how a sail would actually fatten it'self out in a puff in order to reduce heeling. Maybe he was doing a complete snow job on me? I'm thinking maybe he was trying to bring things down to a level I might understand and simplified things a bit to much?

Any opinions appreciated I have no doubt that the sail that I was looking at in the quality construction and materials used was of a higher grade than what I've been looking at but his additional claims seemed ----well-----kinda on the far side of the moon to me.

Thanks

 

[Joe]

First of all, why don't you tell us the name of the sailmaker?

Second, there's no secret to reducing heeling in a puff, and you don't need a secret tricked out sail design to balance your boat's rig in changing conditions.

Third, do some more research on sails, sailmakers and sail design in general. Get yourself educated so the next time you talk to a sailmaker you know what to ask him.

Here's a good place to start: http://www.amazon.com/Art-Science-Sails-Construction-Aerodynamics/dp/0312044178

Another excellent resource, a bit more technical: http://www.arvelgentry.com/magaz/How_Sails_Really_Work.pdf

 

[RichH]

Was this a radial-cut sail they were explaining?

With radials or whats known as a 'VFR' made of woven dacron ... there can be a 'division' of a heavier weight fabric in the 'aft' sections using a 'different' or more 'high aspect' (stronger and less stretch in one direction) that is aligned 'against' the axis of cloth that stretches when highly windloaded. This tends to reduce the 'stretch' in the aft sections that lessens the position of max draft from moving aft and lessens the sail 'changing shape' and 'powering-up' when the sail is over-stressed by the increased force of the wind. With or without a lighter weight cloth in the 'fore' radial sections, such a sail will be more stable vs. 'stretch' ("power-up" by increased draft due to wind pressure) in the higher windranges.

A radial cut woven dacron sail will be slightly heavier and will usually be more costly because of the additional 'seaming' ... In contrast to a 'cross cut' where all the panels are parallel to each other. Any radial-cut will keep its dimensional shape for much longer 'service life'.
This (radial type construction) is probably the 'best' way to make a woven dacron sail ... especially if you want 'performance' and 'long life'; plus, with woven dacron you still get 'enhanced adjustability' if you like to SHAPE a sail to meet exacting wind/wave conditions ... in comparison to the limited 'adjustability' you get with a 'laminated' sail.

Like 'any' sail, you need to or should discuss your 'experise' as a helmsman, the typical winds/waves you sail ... and then the sailmaker can easily and without extra cost tailor the sail to MATCH your ability of 'helmsmanship' --- makes a BIG difference in how a boat 'performs'. Otherwise if you dont ask or discuss such options you will get a 'plain vanilla' or 'cruiser cut' sail that is a 'compromise' towards being a 'forgiving' sail with respect to how much you need to steer the boat or trim the sails. A 'cruising cut' sail will have a quite wide 'angle of attack' range before 'luffing or stalling' for less precise helmsmanship; at the other extreme, with a 'racing cut' you need to be almost constantly 'steering' / trimming.

 

[RobertLangdirect]

Allen;

Does this maker have a website and does the website show the rotational sail?

For me, I too was at the Annap BS and visited many SMs there. But there was none with a rotational sail that I saw (and note, that does not mean there was none).

So, go to the maker's HP and see if they have the feature there. Copy the URL and let us see it.

Thank You for sharing your thoughts. I am like you, very novice in sailing and always looking for a way to better control my boat. While poorly trimmed sails can make for dramatic avitars, they do not win races.

 

[Ed Schenck]

Was Joe Waters at Annapolis? He is a past national C-22 champion with his own sails. I had his main on my boat. In fact I just listed a Waters 150 genoa here on SBO, brand new. http://www.waterssails.net/about_us

 

[allen-deckard]

k I didn't name the sail maker before simply because I'm a novice and the person at the show was quite nice talking to me and explaining things to me.

IF I had missunderstood him when he was explaining things and what I "heard" wasn't what he said I didn't want to come on here saying he said something that he didn't and make the sailmaker sound bad like I was bad mouthing them when quite possibly I just didn't fully understand what he was saying.

So with that below I'm going to type in exactly what the paperwork that they gave me and maybe I am reading incorrectly and reading what I want to hear not what is there.

Kappa Sails
Performance dacron mainsail
performance dacron mainsail constructed of 6.62 high aspect dacron

the performance dacron main is a step above the crosscut mainsail from others. it utilizes a rotated threadline which flattens the sail as the wind increases. this effect reduces the weather helm and heeling with every puff. all sails are manufactured in the usa using type 52 high tenacity yarn. your sail is conputer designed using the latest three dimensional sail design software and are computer cut on our state of the art plotter/cutter. then the sails are carefully hand assembled by our staff of sailmakers.

so anyway in no way shape or form was I trying to discredit the company. Again I'm a novice that just likes to sail in my time off. I dont race or live on a boat I dont even get to sail on the ocean if my boat sank it wouldn't be anymore than an expence and embarissing and a wet swim to shore.

The advertisement as you might call it I guess was and still is interesting to me as the statment that the sail flattens out and reduces heeling.

Yes I know that proper sail trim is still the obvious way a sailor is supposed to reducing healing ect thats obvious.

At one time every driver of a car had to adjust the timing and the carb of there car but modern tech has eliminated that need. And I know that is an apples and oranges statment but was just trying to make a point.

So anyway what I thought was just a simple question obviously wasn't. It seemed like just some new thing that I hadn't read about in my browsing around and either sounded really neat or to good to be real. If the answer to my question takes me going back to college to relearn trig that I forgotten 20+ years ago I guess I'll retract my question and move on hehe

Thanks for the help everyone

 

[Nodak7]

RichH, thanks for the explanation! I appreciated how you broke it down and made it more understandable. I would have been in the same "boat" as Allen had I been in his shoes. This gives me some reference regarding this type of sail design. I really like your suggestion that you give the SM your type of sailing conditions and helmsmanship. I am certain, with a good sailmaker, that would make a big difference. Thanks for the question Allen, I learned something from it!

 

[Joe]

allen's sailmakers website

http://www.kappasails.com/