Macerator & Other Discharge Valves?

[pumpkinpie]

Hi guys! Mrs. PP here again. I’ve been reading the online Hunter 38 owner’s manual PDF which gave me much useful information but also puzzled me quite a bit as some of the details were very vague and/or didn’t explain any of the following. After searching throughout the boat, I was curious as to how the discharge systems actually work.

The macerator is something I think we would rarely use (when 3 miles out per legal requirements), but in the event we were on a long cruise and needed to, it would be nice to understand how to properly discharge the black water tank. I noticed there is a macerator pump with a valve, a thru hull discharge, and two macerator switches on the panel. I’m assuming when all of these are open and switches on, it will discharge out the thru hull. Is there a particular order in which this must be done to ensure there is no back flow or other problems?

Also, when checking out the thru hulls, I see there is a galley drain discharge and vanity drain discharge. Both of which are currently open. Are these meant to be left open when docked, closed when not? When using the sinks, do these drain out of the boat or are they draining into the black water tank? I always assumed the latter, however, now I’m not certain what their intended use is, how to properly operate them, and when they should be open/closed.

Can anyone please give further clarification on the proper operating of these discharge valves? @quadrille38 You likely have the exact set up.

 

[Hayden Watson]

I would be surpised if you had two switches for the maserator. I suspect that the round item circled on the right side of the panel is an indicator light to let you know that it is running. It is easy to leave them on or accidentally turn on the switch and this would help with that.
One word of caution. I had that same pump on my boat it had bronze or brass rods that connect the pump to motor which completely corroded away to nothing in about 5-8 years and the pump fell off the motor. Not a good day. You can do a search of this site and find others with the same problem. Many recommend removing the original threaded rods and replacing them with stainless steel. It looks like this may have already been done to yours but it is worth a check.

 

[nightowle]

I concur with Hayden, but also add that according to BoatUS, one of the largest amounts of insurance claims comes from failed seacocks - by far ahead of other claims including fire. When I read this, I made a point of closing the seacocks whenever we are not on the boat. Of course, a closed seacock doesn't guarantee water intrusion if you never inspect them for deterioration!

 

[pumpkinpie]

I have attached another photo that shows a different angle of the switch that looked like just a light. You can see there are three switches on the panel of the same type.

This boat was in such great condition when we purchased it and rarely used (10 years old now but the macerator pump works), so I don’t believe anything has been done aside from what was completed at the factory, however, I’ll definitely check it out. I’d rather prevent than fix a problem. Especially a stinky one.

I would be surpised if you had two switches for the maserator. I suspect that the round item circled on the right side of the panel is an indicator light to let you know that it is running. It is easy to leave them on or accidentally turn on the switch and this would help with that.
One word of caution. I had that same pump on my boat it had bronze or brass rods that connect the pump to motor which completely corroded away to nothing in about 5-8 years and the pump fell off the motor.

 

[pumpkinpie]

I wasn’t sure I’d get any replies this late at night. How funny I had a “night owl” respond! I have heard similar, which is one reason I’m super puzzled that the galley and vanity sink discharge thru hulls are actually open.

I concur with Hayden, but also add that according to BoatUS, one of the largest amounts of insurance claims comes from failed seacocks - by far ahead of other claims including fire. When I read this, I made a point of closing the seacocks whenever we are not on the boat. Of course, a closed seacock doesn't guarantee water intrusion if you never inspect them for deterioration!

 

[senang]

You have a 3-way valve in the port owners cabin closet. Take the bottom out of the closet, it is underneath the bottom. This valve directs toilet waste to either overboard or to holding tank. I think yours is in the holding tank position. Do NOT try to move the handle if it doesn’t want to move. Even if you move this handle every day, after roughly 18 months it becomes stuck in one of the 2 positions. If you want to use it, first disassemble and clean, it is only plastic!
If you lift the floorboard in front of this closet you see the shower drain pump and the macerator pump. On the big hose leading into the macerator pump there is a valve. Open it if you want to empty the holding tank when away from the coast. And the through hull of course, marked “macerator discharge“ on our boat. Then operate the macerator switch. Leave the floorpanel open, you will hear when the pump is pumping air when the holding tank is empty.
The switch marked bilge on the panel is the manual override for the auto bilge pump. If you lift the floorboards next to the fridge and operate the switch you should here the whining sound of the pump. This empties water from the bilge. There is an auto switch in the bilge, try if it is functioning by turning the float to the up position.

 

[quadrille38]

Actually one of the switches isn’t a switch at all. It’s the circuit breaker. The switch is the toggle with the light on. When you want to use the macerator make sure the valve under the floor in the aft cabin next to the macerator is open. Then open the through hull. With circuit breaker on hold switch on panel to on position and macerator will run.
When done be sure to close the through hull and shut the power off with the breaker.

On the sink through hulls. It’s kind of your call. Some people leave them open all the time. I tend to leave open when we are on the boat and closed when boat unattended. Others close and open only when using the sinks. I find that a hassle. I have on occasion closed the head sink valve because when heeled to port water will sometimes come up in the sink.

 

[pumpkinpie]

Thank you, @quadrille38. That’s exactly what I thought. And yes, circuit breaker rather than “switch.” It was late last night.

So the sink thru hulls drain directly out of the boat? I assume yes by your reply...

Also, I noticed in the manual diagram it shows there being a Y-valve under the port hanging locker as @senang says above, however, I did pull up the floor of the closet only to find there is NOT a Y-valve - just a straight pipe. The only valve I found was the one next to the macerator pump as in my photo, but this was not listed in the manual. Any chance they changed the design but not the manual?

 

[jssailem]

Pumpkin as I would understand your head waste system.

1. Circuit breaker. Energizes the system and provides a cut off should you have a problem on the circuit
2. Toggle switch. Turns on and off the macerator pump. It may be spring loaded. Pump runs when you hold it. Shuts off when toilet go of the switch
3. Y. Valve to direct the flow from tank to outside the boat. Either to the macerator pump or to the deck pump out
4. The thru hull valve to discharge the waste from the macerator pump overboard
5. A raw water valve to provide water to the head for flushing
   

 

[JRT]

Sink drains are considered gray water and are direct discharge, I open and close my valves each time we go out, it is part of my boat prep habit and allows me to put my eyes on any potential problem at the dock vs underway.

The Y value may not have been installed, my 310 had it labeled in the owners manual but I learned it was an option that could be installed but never was. It was confusing to me also.

I have a Macerator which is pretty useless as we are on the lake and won't be leaving for years. I'm sure it has had limited use, but if we take this boat out of the lake for future cruising plans it will be replaced and upgraded to a pump with a built in check valve to allow easier remove/maintenance and replacement and avoid any surprises. @JK_Boston_Catalina310 did an upgrade that was more expensive then the stock, but since he is out there living the dream he did it to make one less issue to deal with. As I recall the upgrade paid for itself after he was fixing salt spray damage issues from hurricanes a few years ago.

 

[capta]

As others have said, you have a circuit breaker, which protects the circuit and a switch, which turns on and off the pump. It is best not to use a circuit breaker as a switch, but most of us do.
If the boat is kept in the water, I would leave the bilge pump breaker on at all times, as it most likely operates the automatic function. The switch operates the manual override I believe. Turn on the circuit breaker for the maserator when you want to use it, but use the switch to operate that pump.

 

[Hayden Watson]

I wasn’t sure I’d get any replies this late at night. How funny I had a “night owl” respond!

Night owl?? it was only 10:41 here on the left coast. I typically don't go to bed before midnight.

 

[Ralph Johnstone]

Here's a couple of items you'll want to put at the top of your "TO DO" list.

Notice that the pump discharge hose is only a white, light duty vinyl hose:

This should be a heavy duty sewage hose or it will (or already has) started to smell really bad. Not a big deal if you have no sense of smell . Also, I notice the macerator discharge hose in your photo is now black. I would do a complete inspection from one end to the other just to make sure there are no surprises (or stinking nightmares) waiting for you.

The second item I see is that the PO has labelled the suction side of the pump as the discharge. Not entirely unexpected as all PO's are idiots, as I think most here will attest to.

The one bad item here is the the cheap plastic valve on the inlet to the pump. It is below the water line and so, is a bad idea if the through hull is open (and your is). Also, you never want a valve here as you will ultimately, at sometime in the future, run the pump for an extended period of time with the valve closed. This will burn out the pump shaft seal after a few minutes. For now, I would suggest wiring the valve open and leaving the macerator through hull closed until using it. Definitely not open as your photo shows.

Nothing life threatening here at this time. C'mon now, admit it, you were starting to run out of jobs to do on the boat and this just fills out the list nicely .

 

[LloydB]

just read post #13 it seems incorrect. (also photo in same) Where's Peggy when you need her? White hose looks like a high pressure waste output hose. the larger PVC conduit with a valve in it looks like macerator input pipe from the toilet. It looks like there is a maintenance valve installed in case someone wants to remove the macerator but the valve is in the closed position why would anybody leave it that way except during an actual repair/removal. there is a black ABS wire guide for the top of the macerator but if that is a discharge line then maybe this guy has figured out how to get rid of his solar panels. If this post is out of line I apologize now after all I am just port-a-potty type a guy with a short boat.

 

[Peggie Hall HeadMistress]

Where's Peggy when you need her?

You rang???

All the hoses in that photo are in serious need of replacement with sanitation hose. that's actually odor permeation resistant.. The white "light duty" hose appears to be sanitation hose, but single-wall flex PVC that can permeate in as little as 90 days (it did on one of my own boats). The black hose is corrugated hose suitable only for air ducts...I have no idea what type of hose the other white hose is, but it's definitely NOT sanitation hose. And every connection should also be double clamped, with screws 180 degrees apart...or at least 90 degrees if access makes 180 impossible.

If you only want to replace sanitation hoses ONCE every 10 years ( the working life of any hose 'cuz rubber and plastics dry out over time, becoming hard, brittle and prone to cracking and splitting) or live with a stinky boat, spend the little bit extra for hose that's truly odor permeation resistant for at least that long. Raritan SaniFlex Raritan SaniFlex hose is your best choice 'cuz it's not only proven to be 100% odor permeation resistant, but it's also so flexible that it can be bent like a hairpin without kinking, which makes it a lot easier to install.

--Peggie

 

[Ralph Johnstone]

the larger PVC conduit with a valve in it looks like macerator input pipe from the toilet.

Thanks for pointing out that error although the input is actually from the holding tank. Reasons for that oversight yesterday were:

a) not enough coffee in the system at that hour of the morning.
b) blind in one eye and can't see out of the other that early in the morning.
c) under attack by the family parrot at the time.
d) I'll think of a few others.

 

[quadrille38]

Thank you, @quadrille38. That’s exactly what I thought. And yes, circuit breaker rather than “switch.” It was late last night.

So the sink thru hulls drain directly out of the boat? I assume yes by your reply...

Also, I noticed in the manual diagram it shows there being a Y-valve under the port hanging locker as @senang says above, however, I did pull up the floor of the closet only to find there is NOT a Y-valve - just a straight pipe. The only valve I found was the one next to the macerator pump as in my photo, but this was not listed in the manual. Any chance they changed the design but not the manual?

yes definitely the sink grey water is direct discharge. You wouldn’t want to fill up your holding tank with sink water.

my guess on the Y valve is that often the manuals show all configurations and options available. Since your boat has a holding tank it probably didn’t have a Y installed.
The flow goes from the water tank into the head. From the head to the holding tank and then you have two options for the holding tank. Pump out at the marina or discharge through the macerator. Here in Michigan you are required to have the overboard discharge permanently disabled.

 

[Ralph Johnstone]

The flow goes from the water tank into the head.

Probably not.

The need for backflow preventer would be first and foremest if they did have such a connection. They're on a lake with an infinite supply of fresh water.

 

[Ron20324]

There is a difference between "water" tank and "holding" tank. /// On the macerator, I'd label "macerator INPUT" and "macerator OUTPUT". Perhaps even arrows on the white pipe to show contents flow directions for the newbies. Some ocean-going sailors say THE MACERATOR IS THE MOST COMMON problem on their boats. When done pumping out, run alot of rise water through the mac system so the crap does not sit in there, harden, and clog the blades. You're on an ocean full of water, so use it!

 

[Peggie Hall HeadMistress]

Probably not. The need for backflow preventer would be first and foremest if they did have such a connection. They're on a lake with an infinite supply of fresh water.

Many people on fresh water lakes and rivers have toilets designed to use pressurized water from the fresh water tank. But if it's a sea water (designed to pull in water from the lake) toilet, it connecting it to the fresh water supply is a major no-no even with a backflow preventer installed and every toilet mfr specifically warns against it in their installation instructions.

--Peggie