Loose shrouds?

[El Pinguino]

What should be the tension of the shrouds? Mine are quite loose and the mast is banging when the boat is rocking. I do not see any possibility to reduce their length as they are already set.
Tks for comments.

 

[El Pinguino]

Here is a video

Shrouds

www.youtube.com

 

[JoeWhite]

It is time to get new ones. It must have stretched.

 

[El Pinguino]

Hmmm! I was hoping not to receive this reply, but thanks anyway.

 

[Will Gilmore]

I understand from your thread There is water under the bed... that there's a crack under the compression post. Your original thread, Mariner 2+2 says the compression post is made of wood and is rotting under the foot.

How about a picture or two of the turnbuckles on the chain plates? The video you posted of the water, didn't show enough of the compression post to get a good idea of the damage. It would be good to see both the base and the top of the post and the area around it.

If the water is coming through the crack in the hull under the compression post, tightening the shrouds may expand that crack and allow more water in. I suspect these two issues are connected.

You should get her off the water soon.

-Will

 

[Davidasailor26]

I suspect these two issues are connected.

A rotting compression post or any kind of hull compromise in that area could mean the mast isn’t sitting as high as designed. That would lead to the shrouds being that loose. I don’t think the shrouds would just stretch to become that loose.

 

[shemandr]

I had that problem on my first keelboat. An astute friend noticed that the shroud turnbuckles were tightened to nearly the end of their range. The mast was deck stepped and after a while of owning the boat it I realized that the deck was deforming from the compression of the rig.

 

[jssailem]

@Davidasailor26

 

[sailme88]

Before you throw in the towel on new shrouds, check the compression post and cabin top....

 

[jssailem]

Yes too sloppy.
Begin at the base of the compression post with your repair. Solid block on sound keel.
Correct length to compression post.
Solid deck structure. Be sure if there is a curve to the deck that the deck is the correct height. Compare to other O'Day Mariner’s.
Address the mast step to affirm the step is clean and solid. No corrosion. Properly installed and sealed so water does not leak into the deck/boat.
Then exam the mast and all mast rigging. You may find the the rigging is fine once you address any issues with the base inside the boat.
Rigging should be firm with a little give. Like a big base string. Not super tight like a piano string.

 

[El Pinguino]

Hi.
Thanks for all these comments. Here are some pictures that will probably be useful.

The first picture shows how much the compression post moved forward. I am not good at geometry, but it could maybe be possible to calculate if this shift compensates the loss of height of the mast??

Should the compensation post be straight (I guess yes) because mine if definitively with an angle?

The second picture shows the ceiling around the compression mast on left and right sides. Cracks on both sides...

The 3rd and 4th pictures show the top around the mast step. There is no crack visible but by hand I can feel a little deformation.

The 5th picture shows the 2 shroud turnbuckles on starboard. I missed the port ones but it is similar.

The 6th Pictures shows the backstay turnbuckle.

There is no forestay but a roller furling.

The last picture shows a piece of wood that has been positioned above the V bed by a former owner. I am trying to get an information about it.

Finally a profile picture. Is the mast leaning to the stern?

Thanks for your comments

 

[Will Gilmore]

Okay good, thanks for the pictures. They clarify a lot.

I thought you had written the compression post was made of wood. Your pictures show the original gold anodized compression post. It has moved, been moved, from its original position. I suggested your boat had been the victim of a hard grounding. That is still a possibility, but it looks more, to me, like the previous owner was in the habit of over-tightening the stays and they, along with various shocks over time, have damaged the boat he may have moved the post so it doesn't sit directly on the crack anymore, but failed to fix it or compensate. There may also, very likely, be rot in the supporting structures under the tabernacle step. These things need to be fixed.

The aft rake of your mast is normal, but probably more than usual because of the mast's shortened height. Fix the crack in the bilge, fix the cabin top and replace the compression post to its original location and your other issues may resolve themselves.

-Will

 

[sailme88]

Your answer is in those pics... Yes there may be stretch in the rigging... but the support of the mast is compromised... Before you suffer a dismasting that will potentially ruin the mast, unstep it and get the compression post fixed along with the cracked glass..

 

[rschuss]

For me, looking at the pictures #3 and #4 tells the story. The mast step/ deck is caving in!. I owned a Mariner for 35 years and the stays never stretched in that time. Go to the Mariner web site, Mariner class Association, get into their technical section for a ton of information. I would create a sound footing for that support pole, reinforce the mast step from the inside, set all the turnbuckles to mid setting, then jack-up the deck until the shrouds are taught. Measure it and then create a new mast support pole. O'Day tells us to tighten the shrouds by hand. Upper shrouds hand tight, lower shrouds taught. Get the data first.

 

[Will Gilmore]

Before you suffer a dismasting that will potentially ruin the mast, unstep it

YES!!!

-Will

 

[El Pinguino]

Hi. I have been reading many of these very interesting info on MCA and it seems that this problem is the weak point of the Mariner either due to the conception or to the artisanal fabrication. Anyway, it has to be addressed but I have no time nor space to do it now. Also I purchased a sailboat to sail. I want to fix her and to keep her but I also like sailing a little bit.
This is what I did. I purchased 2 cargo bars that I put on each side of the compression post. I know that they are not made for this purpose. When in place I crank maybe ¾", no more after releasing the shrouds. I then fixed the shrouds on both sides. The back stay was fine, no adjustment necessary. Now the mast does not bang anymore, and there is no more depression at the tabernacle. It is a temporary fix which should allow me to sail with adequate conditions.
Here is a video

No more banging

After supporting the compression pole with 2 cargo bars and fixing the shrouds.

www.youtube.com

 

[Will Gilmore]

Would you please cut a 1/2" to 3/4" piece of plywood to set under those cargo bars to spread out the force, until you know for sure there is no issue with the crack in the bilge.

You might want something against the cabin ceiling as well. I'm pretty sure the beam under the tabernacle is rotten, because I'm guessing that's where your water is coming in (you haven't said yet, but I'm also guessing the water is freshwater?). So, the cabintop will probably flex with the compression of the rotted core under the tabernacle. Don't let it go too long before you get it fixed.

As far as the forces under sail, the jib puts compression forces directly downward on the mast, beyond the stays' tension. The sheet does too. The vang or Cunningham only do if they are attached to the deck instead of the mast foot.

-Will

 

[El Pinguino]

Hi Will. Tks for the comments. Yes, I did later on inserted plywood under the bars even if the floor at this location seems quite strong, more than the one under the compression post. Following some comments on MCA, I drilled a couple of little holes on this beam to see if any water would drain, but nothing. When the time will come, I'll do a deeper investigation. Have a great weekend