Looking for New Chart Plotter

[snoopy_]

Hello,

I am looking for a reasonably priced chart plotter and depth finder that has buttons. In my research I found the following:

- ECHOMAP™ UHD 73sv U.S. Lake
- ECHOMAP™ UHD 74sv Bluechart

First, what is the difference between these two? Only the maps? I plan on buying Navionics maps anyway since I am familiar with them from phone and current fish finder, am I better off saving money by buying the lake, and upgrading to Navionics, I am on the coast of New Jersey and assume I need ocean/coastal maps.

Second, I would like to buy a thru-hull transducer. I have one currently, but the cable is cut and it's in-op. I located the following that I think would work with the above chart plotter:

- Airmar Transducer B150M 20 degree tilt. (Garmin PN 010-11927-22).

I have a new Raymarine Autopilot system (EV100) I plan on upgrading too as well, which uses the SeatalkNG network, in case that has an impact on selection; Raymarine chart plotters with buttons seem very expensive for a 30' sailboat.

Working your way through all the weeds of integrating components is a PIA, geesh. Any help is appreciated. If you think there are better options too, I am certainly open to them.

Thank you,

Snoopy

 

[jssailem]

Boy Snoopy.. This question is one that can quickly get us into the weeds.

I am looking for a reasonably priced chart plotter and depth finder that has buttons.

It is a Holy Grail.

• How do you define Reasonable Priced?
• How do you want the chart plotter to function?
  • Stand alone? Integrated?
  • At the helm?
  • Inside the boat Nav Station?
• Do you want depth finder to display on the chart plotter or on it's own display?
  • At the Helm or on the Cockpit bulkhead?

That is enough for now... There are many more qualifiers.

I recently received the link below, from a friend, that explores some of the navigation issues involved with Navionics from the perspective of cruisers. All systems have elements of compromise. You need to be aware of them in discovering the solution that fits your needs. Oh help is being aware so that you can define your "NEEDS".

One system I find interesting is OpenCPN. Free and very functional.

 

[snoopy_]

jssailem,

Aw shucks, more reading! lol.

I am clueless.

Reasonable? That is subjective, but I was hoping for under $1200 for a plotter and transducer. I initially thought about buying all Raymarine products for ease of integration, but their Axiom Pro (which had buttons) was $3k, and for that, I'll continue to use a Lowrance I bought last year, or use an iPad or iPhone.

Integrated at the helm I think. I am not sure what integrated means... but I was hoping that it could work with my autopilot in some way, like the chart plotter could talk to the autopilot to maintain course, which would be more important when motoring. Is this possible?

I also thought about buying two Raymarine i70s (mfd). One at the helm for depth, and one at the nav station for GPS in case of an emergency call via ship radio. I keep a handheld at the helm, but that range is probably severely limited.

I will read through the attachment to help gain a better understanding of the possibilities and what I want and maybe need. I haven't ventured too far from my port yet, but would like to do some coastal cruising down the East Coast and around DelMarVa.

Thank you,
Snoopy

 

[jssailem]

OK helpful. Still on the Holy Grail quest.

One of the issues with Raymarine AP is they update the software/firmware. To do that you need a connection. Raymarine provides this connection through their Chart Plotters. You can bring the chart plotter to the AP or the AP components to a Chart Plotter (or a Raymarine Dealer). This limitation pretty much has you beholding to the Raymarine brand products.

I know because I have the EV-100 and Raymarine no chart plotter. Boat compromise.

That said we move onto the reasonable issue. The Axiom 9 is available for less. From $999.99 according to Raymarine. Axiom 9 - 9 Inch Touchscreen Multifunction Displays | Marine Electronics by Raymarine

Here is a model for $1250 with maps.

Raymarine AXIOM+ 9 with Lighthouse NA Maps | The GPS Store

Raymarine's Axiom+ 9 with Lighthouse NA Maps is a high-performance 9-inch chartplotter equipped with a powerful quad-core processor and a 25% brighter high-resolution display than other models. Map coverage area includes coastlines of the contiguous U.S., Alaska, Hawaii, thousands of inland fresh...

www.thegpsstore.com

Add to that the RMK-10 Remote at about $320

Raymarine RMK-10 Remote Keypad-Portrait and Landscape Orientation | The GPS Store

Raymarine's RMK-10 Remote is a wired keypad that provides full control of Axiom, aSeries, cSeries, eSeries, eS Series and gS Series Multifunction Displays (MFDs) with dedicated keys for Home, Menu, Zoom In/Out, Window Control, Waypoint Management, power/brightness and even Evolution Autopilot Con...

www.thegpsstore.com

and you can have the functional chart plotter for less than $1500
The cost of a transducer is couple hundred. This depends on what you want the transducer to do. Depth is easy. Looking at the sea floor and spotting fish can be a bit more. I was in a yacht fishing Marlin. The skipper had the latest and greatest system The system exceeded $120K. The result we caught 5 Marlin while nearby boats did not.

One of the alures of OpenCPN is that NOAA provides free charts to boaters of US waters. OpenCPN (free software) can download those charts on to your laptop and you have a free chart plotter in the cabin.

 

[Stu Jackson]

Snoopy, we all started out not knowing anything about any of this. We learned. Your question is like asking" "What car should I buy?" Without defining the use, no one can tell you. Off road camping or highway touring or race course? See the comparison?

One way to find out what's generally available is to get a WM catalog, I find it's easier to read the printed pages, but also available online. Defender, too. High end? Try Panbo

Until you find out what they make, you can't even begin to start choosing. Sure, there are a lot, but you'll get a much better idea of your options.

Happy hunting.

 

[Tally Ho]

Yes, the only difference in those specific units are the maps that they come pre-loaded with. I don’t see an option for no pre-loaded maps…but maybe you can contact Garmin.

i have an older Garmin GPSMaps CP, and I like it, but it only has 1 button (power button). Everything else is done through the touch screen…and I think it works pretty good. I expect the newer ones are even better.

If you can upgrade all devices to N2K, that will make life much easier. My Garmin CP and VHF radio with AIS are both N2K, and it was easy to network them so the CP can display AIS targets from the B&G VHF, and the VHF gets our location from the CP for EMERGENCY broadcast.

My old Raymarine ST40+ won’t talk to the rest of the N2K network ;-(

Greg

 

[snoopy_]

jssailem,

I read your attachment, and it was very enlightening and interesting. I watch Sam Holmes on youtube and he was using chart software and ran aground at Cape Cod. He was supposed to be in 17' of water, and he was in less than 2'. Starting at minute 6:00 if you are interested: samhomlessailing So yes, nothing is foolproof, and you should have several navigation tools at your disposal.

 

[snoopy_]

Snoopy, we all started out not knowing anything about any of this. We learned. Your question is like asking" "What car should I buy?" Without defining the use, no one can tell you. Off road camping or highway touring or race course? See the comparison?

One way to find out what's generally available is to get a WM catalog, I find it's easier to read the printed pages, but also available online. Defender, too. High end? Try Panbo

Until you find out what they make, you can't even begin to start choosing. Sure, there are a lot, but you'll get a much better idea of your options.

Happy hunting.

Stu,
I understand what you are saying, but sometimes you don't even know what questions to ask. I don't know what things are nice-to-haves, must-haves, etc. I know I want a car... and I can drive it around my property... but when I want to go to the store someone asks, "Do you have a license, is your car registered, do you have insurance, etc." There is a difference of knowing what you are doing with the boat today, but people that have been through the mill may explain that upgrading the N2K would be beneficial because of the added advantages of allowing sensors to communicate together, as Tally Ho explained. I had no idea that the VHF/AIS/CP could communicate and broadcast position information. I understood their transponder function from ship-to-ship, but not via VHF comms. I am trying to avoid dishing out money. that if I was smarter, only had to be dished out once. I don't want to re-buy and upgrade a sensor or instrument every year because I wasn't aware that if I purchased X, it would have functioned with Y. Does this make sense? I am blind. I can smell, so I know there is food in the room, but it could be poisoned. lol.

 

[Stu Jackson]

Does this make sense? I am blind. I can smell, so I know there is food in the room, but it could be poisoned. lol.

Yes, it makes sense, but with caveats. You are new to marine electronics, you don't know what they can do, but at the same time you haven't yet determined what YOU need or want. Of course you're confused, but you are at the beginning of a journey, and expecting random input from others on a somewhat limited boating forum is not, IMHO, the way to answer your questions. Your analogy is incorrect, because you are NOT blind, you just have to open your eyes, and do some homework and research first. THEN you can ask more specific questions.

The reason I suggested the WM catalog, in addition to seeing what is available in the marketplace, is because they have these handy dandy Advisors.
Here, scroll down to electronics and get started: [almost half of the articles start with "Select a...", which is exactly what you're asking for]

West Marine collection of boating, diving and paddle sports how-to articles | West Marine

West Marine is committed to outfitting your life on the water. With over 250 store locations, 100,000 products in stock, and knowledgeable Associates, trust West Marine for your boating, sailing, fishing, or paddling needs. Shop with confidence - get free shipping to home or stores + price match...

www.westmarine.com

Some like touch screens, some like buttons, but there's a reason some manufacturers started making both: touch screens don't work well with gloves or rain. If you're in FL gloves don't apply, but still...

Interfacing? Some prefer standalone because if one goes down, all the rest don't.
Like this: Selecting Networked Marine Electronics | West Marine

I sailed all the way from San Francisco to British Columbia with a handheld Garmin GPSMap 76 Cx and an ST3000 AP that died halfway up. We made it. Others would say that if I didn't have 4,679 interfaced waypoints for a 1600 nm trip with routes tied into my AP with full radar and AIS I would die. I didn't. I had all of maybe 20 waypoints stored in my GPS which were the inlets of the harbors and bars I would need to find.

THOSE are the kind of basic choices you need to start thinking about.

But as I used to tell my engineers: you can't specify it if they don't make it. The other side of the coin is: there's so much out there, how do I choose? The answer to that is to start learning what's out there.

Your car analogy should, rather, be, I know I want a car, do I want a radio, bluetooth, how big a screen, electric or manual transmission, electric or manual seats, sun roof or solid, etc.... Then you find out what car makers offer as their Options. Of course you need a license. But it's the CAR you're after, not what you need to operate one.

You should also go to a store where they have units on display, and play with them. I put off buying a Garmin for years because a friend had an early model which both of us hated because you had to scroll through five different menus to input or recall a waypoint!!! Years later I played with a newer model in the store and found out that hey''d finally "got it" and made it simple to use and I didn't have to pull the manual out to start the damn thing! And everyone is different as to how they react & respond to the different ways manufacturers make their units and their GUIs and buttons. Only YOU can figure out what works for you.

Finally, download a couple of Operators Manuals for things that peak your interest and read the gutsy details first BEFORE YOU BUY ANYTHING. Many of those manuals will answer your: what can interface with this unit? questions.

Good luck, happy hunting.

 

[Joe]

One way to find out what's generally available is to get a WM catalog, I find it's easier to read the printed pages, but also available online. Defender, too. High end? Try Panbo
Happy hunting.

Have I missed something? I thought WM discontinued printing their fantastic catalogues a number of years ago. Defender still offers printed catalogues... though not same quality, by far, but still prime reading for those daily head visits.

Anyhoo..... I like B&G stuff so I can't make any recommendations for Ray equipment. I can say you should stick to chart plotters that are sailing oriented. Can't recommend the fancy sonar sensors. You need wind info, depth info, autopilot controller and vhf/ais integration. Also radar connectivity should make that future addition easier on the budget. My B&G Vulcan accomplishes all that and much more. It does not have buttons, though.... I do not miss them. The unit is mounted on a swing arm and is visible from anyplace in the cockpit or in the cabin... it is easily accessible from either side of the tiller. Remember the cost of mounting it at the helm as you set your budget. I highly recommend you consider a portable mounting solution that lets you move the unit from helm to cabin.... for security and convenience.

I use Lighthouse charts....... they came pre installed on the chartplotter. I had navionics on my tablet, laptop, phone. I had OpenCN on my laptop. It's handy for planning, but not useful in the cockpit because of visibility and general clunkiness. The LH is more than satisfactory. Imho, all the chart programs are easy to learn... so I wouldn't buy anything before getting familiar with your new equipment and its included map kit. Good luck....do your due diligence and spend wisely.

 

[snoopy_]

Stu,

Okay, I get it. I should do some research before asking questions.

Yes, I did expect “random” input but was hoping to just start a conversation where I might derive some intelligence from others’ experiences. e.g. What worked/works, doesn’t work, mistakes, wish-I’d-dids, what they like, dislike, etc. For example, your statement stating that some people like standalones for failure mitigation gives me something to think about and research. I hoped it would get the juices flowing as to what are things I should be looking at, but you believe I should be well versed before asking anything, so I am asking pertinent questions.

I will do as you say, stop and learn. As I said, I have a new AP to install. Since the boat is out of the water I assumed it would be a good time to replace/install a depth transducer. However, I have an existing CP I purchased last year, which I don’t like, as it’s not intuitive to my thinking. I assume that is exactly what you are saying. i.e. I should use it at a store, read the manual, to see if it fits me and my needs, before thinking about making purchases.

At this stage of my sailing, I am mostly focused on charts and depth. I usually do not leave the sight of land (If I did I can use a compass) but anything that increases your situational awareness is a plus.

I sail in the Atlantic Ocean at Cape May Point, NJ, and I hoped to begin sailing further down the East Coast, into the Chesapeake. I thought a better CP would provide me.



P.S. I fly too, so I know how to navigate via a magnetic compass.

 

[jssailem]

Snoopy... Sometimes it is how you search and where you explore that can help you.
I would suggest exploring the Roger Long adventures on Strider. He had a boat about your size and he adventured up and down the coastal waters of the East Coast. Search "Strider" here on the forum.

A way of cruising is discussed on Morganscloud.com. John Harries has sailed extensively. He has a way of thinking about the idea of cruising that can be valuable to explore as you start your adventure. He posts both free and paid articles. At $20/yr I find he writings a valuable addition to my computer marine library.

Panbo.com as mentioned by Stu, and Steve at SeaBits both provide insight on the how to and provide good reviews.

As so often happens as you step into a new world of words and deeds, you do not know what you do not know.

 

[Stu Jackson]

...but you believe I should be well versed before asking anything, so I am asking pertinent questions.

That's not what I said. What I did say was that YOU have to do more of your own research and homework. Why? Because you are at a starting point in a journey that has a tremendous amount of OPTIONS.
What anyone likes or dislikes about their choices may be the same or the opposite of what you may choose.
That is why I suggested the WM Advisors, because they present those options for you.
Compare this to, say, 26 people chiming in on this particular thread, each one saying, "I chose X, I chose Y, I chose Z," with all the rest of the letters of the alphabet (and then some, all different manufacturers, some standalone, some integrated.
How would that help you?
Look, we've seen it all before, here and in any other forum whether it be boats, cars, model railroads, you name it. It is the nature of mature conversation.
I'm not saying your request is invalid at all. What I am saying is that your expectation of what answers you are likely get this this way are flawed. This is because of the simple reality of how these things go about the complexity of marine electronics, and the myriad choices and options available. We know this, which is what we've been trying to tell you about this subject.
So it behooves anyone who is at the starting point, like you are, to learn more about those options by reading independent reviews by experts in the field, rather than keeping your fingers crossed that enough individual people will provide you with answers to your questions here on this thread. We know they have been answered in more organized publications, and have sent you places to go read about them.
Add to that that I doubt that anyone is going to chime in and say, "Yeah, I bought ABC System, and boy, does it ever suck." People simply don't do that. When was the last time you met somebody who said, "Yeah, I researched the heck out of it, and boy did I goof." Or, "Boy, I spent year finding my dream boat and I really blew it." Doesn't happen.
We don't all have the same boats, do we?
I'll tell you what I like about what I have, and Joe, and Mike, and Sam could do the same.
But it doesn't begin to offer you what you're really looking for. Which is what will work for you.
Have you noticed the sheer lack of people responding here? Why do you think that is? It's because we've all BTDT with boat electronics and recognize that each of us is unique, and that each of us had to embark upon and fulfill the journey ourselves, with the help and directions and links to trustworthy (relatively) independent sources of comparative information that is available on the internet.
It can seem overwhelming, but it's like eating an elephant, one bite at a time.

 

[BigEasy]

If you have existing instruments and auto pilot that are all manufactured by same manufacturer, that are linked or integrated, I would seriously consider buying a chartplotter of the same manufacturer. It is a complete PIA trying to interface components of different manufacturers unless you are an electronics wizard.

 

[snoopy_]

If you have existing instruments and auto pilot that are all manufactured by same manufacturer, that are linked or integrated, I would seriously consider buying a chartplotter of the same manufacturer. It is a complete PIA trying to interface components of different manufacturers unless you are an electronics wizard.

BiEasy,

I had similar thoughts today. I have experienced professionally, that if you buy a single solution from a single vendor, there is little chance for them to point fingers at others., They provided the solution, they must make it right. There is also better chance of the solution working as the components are from the same vendor.

Earlier today, after additional research, I placed request to Raymarine for guidance in a solution for what I wanted in combination with the new autopilot. Some of the research on Raymarine’s solutions from dealers contradicted their site info, so I figured it would be best answered by the source.

Thanks

 

[Ward H]

I had all of maybe 20 waypoints stored in my GPS which were the inlets of the harbors and bars I would need to find.

Stu, I like your priorities!


Snoopy, I think you came to the right place to ask your questions.

I'd check out Raymarine or B&G chart plotters which, from what I've seen and read, have more features for sailing than Garmin. I like my touchscreen Axiom 7. If needed I would go with the remote keypad @jssailem mentioned but three seasons in the touchscreen hasn't been a problem.

I'm also a fan of Navionics maps. I compared them to Garmin maps and found, at least in the Barnegat Bay, the Navionics Community Edits feature make their maps more current. I bought a new Gamin CP about 5 years ago with Garmin maps. Several times I switched to Navionics on my phone due to the "new" Gamin maps showing bad data.

I think the Raymarine EV-100, Axiom CP, i70S display and SeaTalkng network makes a neat and easy to install package. SeaTalkng is RMs proprietary network system. You can also build a NMEA 2000 network but the STng is more plug and play.

I don't know enough about those Garmin CP,s to comment on them but that transducer is bronze and very pricey. You can find a plastic transducer for much less.

 

[shemandr]

Echomap - are optimized for fish finding. Echo - Map. The Echo comes first the Map second. Those units are largely about the transducers. I assume you don't need that. You just want to know the depth. Spend your money on the Cartography. And find a menu system you can deal with. I heard a vorciforious complaint from someone who bought a Simrad chart plotter that he couldn't make work. Finally he found deep in the menus a feature to turn off the live GPS (Simulator mode). My Raymarine MFD had a nighttime display mode deep in the menus. Trouble was when the Sun came up you couldn't see it. They all have quirks.
You really should be able to test drive one but so far as I know it isn't possible. Once it's installed the store return policy is void. Not the best system. That's why I'd stick to one company. There's a better chance of everyone playing nice with each other.

 

[CaptainRed]

I just put a Raymarine Axiom 9 in my 85 C30 Tall-rig.
Was $800 at 4th of July sale at West, with charts and a $450 3D Fishfinder transducer I cant use. Had to build a new instrument housing for it, but it Interfaced with my much older Raymarine autopilot system flawlessly without any modifications. Beautiful touch screen display, fast input until any other of my older Raymarine C70 chartplotters in my Olson29. Can plot out a race course with the touchscreen just from the map if you know your local waters, and it plots your layline to the mark, tells you when to tack.
Best of all, Display is large enough to actually see where I'm sailing.
Also has bluetooth interfaces with my Radio and sound systems, and my phone, can play Spotify or Sirius XM from my phone. Is also supposed to play video from the phone so I can watch the latest you tube DIY, and watch Netflix or HBOMax from my phone app. Haven't tested these yet, Had to go find all the passwords for those accounts, The phone may know them but I have to enter them on the chartplotter apps to get Video to import.
Next week I'll get that sorted, Redoing all my cockpit brightwork, and modifying the Captain's seat. That takes priority.
Captain Red
1985 C30 Mk1 Tall Rig
Columbia Sailing Club
Ballentine, SC