I've pretty much 90% come to the conclusion that I want to upgrade to a Mac 22 from reading about the boat, forums, opinions, photos, popularity, and towing behind a V6 Ranger. I don't have anything against a boat that needs a little cleaning and minor fixes (as long as it isn't a major disaster looking for a place to suck on my wallet!). I saw this one on Craigslist, but not sure if this is a good deal or not. http://seattle.craigslist.org/tac/boa/231690163.html I haven't called the owner for more photos yet, but might check with him on it. Ok, now your turn. What can you say about this boat that needs TLC? Thanks, Tom
Looking for Macgregor 22 (opinions?)
- Thread starter tegwilym
- Start date
- Status
MacGregor/Venture 22'
That's way too much for the boat. I bought a really good one with a trailer and motor for $2.300 on E-bay about a year ago. Keep your eyes open and check on E-bay regularly. It's a good boat but somewhat tender for taking to Catalina, so I use a smal jib and am prepaired to reef the main if the wind gets above 12Kts. Novelman
That's way too much for the boat. I bought a really good one with a trailer and motor for $2.300 on E-bay about a year ago. Keep your eyes open and check on E-bay regularly. It's a good boat but somewhat tender for taking to Catalina, so I use a smal jib and am prepaired to reef the main if the wind gets above 12Kts. Novelman
mac 22
Yeah, I was thinking that too. He says "$2,000 Firm" for the boat even if it needs work. Not sure how much though. I've been checking Ebay but not much that is close to home is showing up. Craigslist seems to come up with some now and then, but I haven't found my ship yet! Tom
Yeah, I was thinking that too. He says "$2,000 Firm" for the boat even if it needs work. Not sure how much though. I've been checking Ebay but not much that is close to home is showing up. Craigslist seems to come up with some now and then, but I haven't found my ship yet! Tom
I think it's a fair price.
I paid $2200 for my 21 two years ago that was in "ready-to-sail" condition. It still took me a year and half's worth of saturdays to upgrade the worn out deck hardware, make minor repairs, and do a few cosmetic jobs until she was REALLY ready to sail. If it's being advertised as "needs work", 95% of the time, it needs a LOT of work. However, upon reading the full text of the ad, it really seems like the seller knows the boat, and has made a very fair and honest assessment of its condition. Probably everything works fine, besides the electrical, which he mentions, and the sink not working. The pictures are telling, as well. The hull looks like it's in great shape; you can definitely see reflections in the paint, which means the paint is a "recent" addition. The cockpit is grungy, but nothing a pressure washer or a hose and a little elbow grease can't take care of. My opinion is that it's definitely worth taking the time for a closer inspection. You can wait a long time for a great deal to show up, or you can take what you can get and be that much closer to enjoying the boat. Novelman's boat sounds like it was a killer find; a super clean, good condition 21/22 for under $3000 is a steal. A boat like mine (no major problems, just needs some minor work and TLC) for around $2000 is above average; $2500 would be average. So go check it out! Give it a thorough inspection, then decide.
I paid $2200 for my 21 two years ago that was in "ready-to-sail" condition. It still took me a year and half's worth of saturdays to upgrade the worn out deck hardware, make minor repairs, and do a few cosmetic jobs until she was REALLY ready to sail. If it's being advertised as "needs work", 95% of the time, it needs a LOT of work. However, upon reading the full text of the ad, it really seems like the seller knows the boat, and has made a very fair and honest assessment of its condition. Probably everything works fine, besides the electrical, which he mentions, and the sink not working. The pictures are telling, as well. The hull looks like it's in great shape; you can definitely see reflections in the paint, which means the paint is a "recent" addition. The cockpit is grungy, but nothing a pressure washer or a hose and a little elbow grease can't take care of. My opinion is that it's definitely worth taking the time for a closer inspection. You can wait a long time for a great deal to show up, or you can take what you can get and be that much closer to enjoying the boat. Novelman's boat sounds like it was a killer find; a super clean, good condition 21/22 for under $3000 is a steal. A boat like mine (no major problems, just needs some minor work and TLC) for around $2000 is above average; $2500 would be average. So go check it out! Give it a thorough inspection, then decide.
A little too much $
Thats more than I'd pay for a '70 mac 22. We dont know the condition of the sails, if you have to replace them, thats a couple of grand! What about the rigging, wires probably are ok, but sheets and halyards cost really add up quick, maybe $500 bucks! Who knows about the interior cushions? You dont have to have them, but their nice. Then you have to ask what your time is worth, lots of hours cleaning and fixing, maybe a hundred bucks for new wiring, and some switches. Make sure EVERYTHING is there, all the pieces. If you have to buy shackles and cleats and sail hanks, plan on spending a couple of hundred bucks more! My friend bought his '84 M22, $2600. sais were barely used and the boat was really dirty, not used much though, and had been in a dry climate. It came with a really nice trailer too. Good luck, you can always offer less!
Thats more than I'd pay for a '70 mac 22. We dont know the condition of the sails, if you have to replace them, thats a couple of grand! What about the rigging, wires probably are ok, but sheets and halyards cost really add up quick, maybe $500 bucks! Who knows about the interior cushions? You dont have to have them, but their nice. Then you have to ask what your time is worth, lots of hours cleaning and fixing, maybe a hundred bucks for new wiring, and some switches. Make sure EVERYTHING is there, all the pieces. If you have to buy shackles and cleats and sail hanks, plan on spending a couple of hundred bucks more! My friend bought his '84 M22, $2600. sais were barely used and the boat was really dirty, not used much though, and had been in a dry climate. It came with a really nice trailer too. Good luck, you can always offer less!
A bit much
I paid 1,000 for my 74 V222 about 3 yrs. ago! It was in sailable condition too! I did some changes to make it my boat, but I didnt have to! That was with trailer and a set of sails, no motor! The boat is excellent as a choice, but you might try and talk the guy down! The boat I got was from a dealership too! I did have to travel 600 miles to get it, but it was worth the trip, kind of like a vacation!
I paid 1,000 for my 74 V222 about 3 yrs. ago! It was in sailable condition too! I did some changes to make it my boat, but I didnt have to! That was with trailer and a set of sails, no motor! The boat is excellent as a choice, but you might try and talk the guy down! The boat I got was from a dealership too! I did have to travel 600 miles to get it, but it was worth the trip, kind of like a vacation!
opinions
Great advice guys, thanks! Yeah, from the photos of that boat the hull does look pretty good and he does describe things pretty well too. I'm just very curious about how the cabin looks inside. That is one of the selling points that I like about the 22, I want something I can go out on for a few days. I did email a Macgregor dealer here in Seattle asking about trade-in boats. I got an email friday from them saying that there might be a 85 Mac 22 coming in that might need a little work. No photos of the boat yet, but she should send me those this week. No idea about pricing either, but I'll find out soon. It's really hard to find something with a good trailer I'm finding. Sometimes I see a promising looking boat that is moored, but no trailer. Ugh! This is definitely a challenge to find an upgrade for my old Lido 14, but I've learned a lot in my research, and just need to get out and check some boats out in person now. Tom
Great advice guys, thanks! Yeah, from the photos of that boat the hull does look pretty good and he does describe things pretty well too. I'm just very curious about how the cabin looks inside. That is one of the selling points that I like about the 22, I want something I can go out on for a few days. I did email a Macgregor dealer here in Seattle asking about trade-in boats. I got an email friday from them saying that there might be a 85 Mac 22 coming in that might need a little work. No photos of the boat yet, but she should send me those this week. No idea about pricing either, but I'll find out soon. It's really hard to find something with a good trailer I'm finding. Sometimes I see a promising looking boat that is moored, but no trailer. Ugh! This is definitely a challenge to find an upgrade for my old Lido 14, but I've learned a lot in my research, and just need to get out and check some boats out in person now. Tom
Ebay and 22+ feet
yeah, that Ebay boat is just the thing I'm looking for, but it's in California and I'm way up here in Seattle. I hope to find something a bit closer. I also want to keep it to 22 feet since I think anything bigger might be a bit much for my V6 Ford Ranger. I'll be upgrading from the flimsy bumper hitch a class II hitch soon, but I'll still need to be able to pull it out of the water with the truck. Unless I'm being too cautious and should just say "Woo! Bigger is better!" and go for a larger one. Hehe! Tom
yeah, that Ebay boat is just the thing I'm looking for, but it's in California and I'm way up here in Seattle. I hope to find something a bit closer. I also want to keep it to 22 feet since I think anything bigger might be a bit much for my V6 Ford Ranger. I'll be upgrading from the flimsy bumper hitch a class II hitch soon, but I'll still need to be able to pull it out of the water with the truck. Unless I'm being too cautious and should just say "Woo! Bigger is better!" and go for a larger one. Hehe! Tom
boats
I guess a little more won't hurt. I only have to tow about 2 miles at the most to the lake, so it won't be a long drive for the truck. Here are some shots of another local one I found on Craigslist a couple weeks ago. I don't know if he sold it yet, but he sent some more photos. He didn't seem to know much about sailboats since he didn't know what I meant when I asked about a "galley". http://home.comcast.net/~tegwilym/mac/boat.zip His camera was acting up, so the photos look kind of strange. It has a porta potty, trailer (thats a good thing!), no motor (not so good, but easier to find than a trailer), and he said he would let it go for $1500. A few dings, but maybe it's ok. I'm not sure. the stuff on the bottom is just weeds rather than scratches. I emailed and asked about that. Opinions on that boat? My 15' Bayliner probably is overweight. I'm not sure how much water is under the floor in that thing, I sure sucked a lot out of it. Darn motorboats... Tom
I guess a little more won't hurt. I only have to tow about 2 miles at the most to the lake, so it won't be a long drive for the truck. Here are some shots of another local one I found on Craigslist a couple weeks ago. I don't know if he sold it yet, but he sent some more photos. He didn't seem to know much about sailboats since he didn't know what I meant when I asked about a "galley". http://home.comcast.net/~tegwilym/mac/boat.zip His camera was acting up, so the photos look kind of strange. It has a porta potty, trailer (thats a good thing!), no motor (not so good, but easier to find than a trailer), and he said he would let it go for $1500. A few dings, but maybe it's ok. I'm not sure. the stuff on the bottom is just weeds rather than scratches. I emailed and asked about that. Opinions on that boat? My 15' Bayliner probably is overweight. I'm not sure how much water is under the floor in that thing, I sure sucked a lot out of it. Darn motorboats... Tom
Bigger may be better
Tom just to weigh in with my opinion.... I used my jeep wrangler for several seasons to move my M25 back and forth from the ramp. I know I was way over the tow capability but never went over 40 mph for the 2 mile trip. The jeep has a 4.0 6-cylinder with a 5-speed and did just fine. I would never highway tow with it as it just isn't made for it. It may have enough power, maybe, but the wheelbase is way too short. A couple of years ago my wife bought a Durango which tows the boat just fine. If it was me I'd look at a couple points... How long are you planning on keeping this boat? How about the truck? I'd guess the boat may be around longer, especially once you get so time on it and work in it. The extra room sure would be nice for overnighting, etc. Your truck will be ok for the short tows to your ramp. even without a tranny cooler you would be hard pressed to overheat the tranny in that distance. If you find a boat that you really want and it is a 24, 25, or even 26, get it. When the time comes that you want to venture farther afield you can either upgrade the rig, borrow a buddies truck, or even rent something to tow with. Me, I'm heading for Lake Ontario summer of '07. That's about 500 miles give or take each way. Good thing my wife got that Durango. Just some thoughts. Good luck with your quest. -John
Tom just to weigh in with my opinion.... I used my jeep wrangler for several seasons to move my M25 back and forth from the ramp. I know I was way over the tow capability but never went over 40 mph for the 2 mile trip. The jeep has a 4.0 6-cylinder with a 5-speed and did just fine. I would never highway tow with it as it just isn't made for it. It may have enough power, maybe, but the wheelbase is way too short. A couple of years ago my wife bought a Durango which tows the boat just fine. If it was me I'd look at a couple points... How long are you planning on keeping this boat? How about the truck? I'd guess the boat may be around longer, especially once you get so time on it and work in it. The extra room sure would be nice for overnighting, etc. Your truck will be ok for the short tows to your ramp. even without a tranny cooler you would be hard pressed to overheat the tranny in that distance. If you find a boat that you really want and it is a 24, 25, or even 26, get it. When the time comes that you want to venture farther afield you can either upgrade the rig, borrow a buddies truck, or even rent something to tow with. Me, I'm heading for Lake Ontario summer of '07. That's about 500 miles give or take each way. Good thing my wife got that Durango. Just some thoughts. Good luck with your quest. -John
bigger boat
Ok that does make sense. I've had the truck for about 2 years, bought it used, and last year had to replace the transmission (nothing to do with towing since I didn't tow anything other than a light Lido 14 one way to my backyard about 6 miles). I usually try to keep my vehicles until they completely fall apart or get totaled for some reason (never my fault). A little more room in a boat would be nice, I just worry about it being a huge burden getting it in and out of my yard to the launch, but 22 or 25 feet - that's only 3 foot difference. It does give me something else to think about for sure! Tom
Ok that does make sense. I've had the truck for about 2 years, bought it used, and last year had to replace the transmission (nothing to do with towing since I didn't tow anything other than a light Lido 14 one way to my backyard about 6 miles). I usually try to keep my vehicles until they completely fall apart or get totaled for some reason (never my fault). A little more room in a boat would be nice, I just worry about it being a huge burden getting it in and out of my yard to the launch, but 22 or 25 feet - that's only 3 foot difference. It does give me something else to think about for sure! Tom
brochure
My thumbworn MacGregor pamphlet from the mid 80's lists the weight of the 22 at 1800 and the 25 at 2100. Not enough difference to really matter especially on a short haul. I bought a 25 two years ago after a 20 year love affair with my V21. One thing that hasn't been mentioned on this thread is the keel. In the mid 70's they went from a laminated fiberglass covered keel to a solid cast iron one. From a maintenance and repair standpoint, the later ones are easier to deal with.
My thumbworn MacGregor pamphlet from the mid 80's lists the weight of the 22 at 1800 and the 25 at 2100. Not enough difference to really matter especially on a short haul. I bought a 25 two years ago after a 20 year love affair with my V21. One thing that hasn't been mentioned on this thread is the keel. In the mid 70's they went from a laminated fiberglass covered keel to a solid cast iron one. From a maintenance and repair standpoint, the later ones are easier to deal with.
22 or 24??
Ok, so the difference between the 22 and 24 isn't enough to really worry about. Any estimates on how much the total weight is including trailer, motor and a few day's worth of gear for a trip? I think I'm just being too paranoid and should just widen my search for a 22 to 24 footer then, huh? My next task is upgrading my trailer hitch to a class 2 frame mount. Then I'll be set to find my dream ship! ...well, I still have to move the gate on the back fence, but I could leave it on the front lawn if needed.
I'll say one thing, if nothing else, the support for Mac users in this forum is really selling me on the Mac if nothing else! Tom
Ok, so the difference between the 22 and 24 isn't enough to really worry about. Any estimates on how much the total weight is including trailer, motor and a few day's worth of gear for a trip? I think I'm just being too paranoid and should just widen my search for a 22 to 24 footer then, huh? My next task is upgrading my trailer hitch to a class 2 frame mount. Then I'll be set to find my dream ship! ...well, I still have to move the gate on the back fence, but I could leave it on the front lawn if needed.
I'll say one thing, if nothing else, the support for Mac users in this forum is really selling me on the Mac if nothing else! TomGet Aboard
tegwilym: You might want to talk with me about the Mac you are looking at. I live on Whidbey Island...not far from Renton/Lake Washington & I looked up and down the West Coast for a Mac (24, 25 or 26) for over a year. Just bought a V2-24 this summer. I strongly suggest you quit wasting time & go climb aboard that boat ASAP. But first, prepare a list of things a boat surveyor would look at and take it with you. Tell the owner you want to really look her over. The price is very reasonable if she is not damaged. But, take some action and learn something about the boat. I must have taken 45 photos of the boat when I looked at her the first time. Went home & looked at every single detail for hours. Went back and went sailing & bought her! Take some action. Cap'n Karl Whidbey Island
tegwilym: You might want to talk with me about the Mac you are looking at. I live on Whidbey Island...not far from Renton/Lake Washington & I looked up and down the West Coast for a Mac (24, 25 or 26) for over a year. Just bought a V2-24 this summer. I strongly suggest you quit wasting time & go climb aboard that boat ASAP. But first, prepare a list of things a boat surveyor would look at and take it with you. Tell the owner you want to really look her over. The price is very reasonable if she is not damaged. But, take some action and learn something about the boat. I must have taken 45 photos of the boat when I looked at her the first time. Went home & looked at every single detail for hours. Went back and went sailing & bought her! Take some action. Cap'n Karl Whidbey Island
'Tis the Season
Tom, I agree with Cap'n Karl. You need to get out and look at potential boats as you find them. That way you will have a better idea of which model(s) you are interested in. Looking at deck plans, cutaways, photos, etc on the web isn't the same as going aboard and seeing for yourself what the layout and headroom really are. If possible, get the seller to take you out for a sail. At the very least, do your best impression of a marine surveyor and look into every nook and cranny. Take photos of everything since, undoubtedly you will get home and need to rethink something. If the seller isn't to keen on your exploring there may be a reason. Maybe they know of a problem they are trying to cover. Maybe they just are impatient and want a quick inspection and sale. I would think that there would be a fair amount of boats for sale that didn't get used much this season so the owners figure they should unload before winter. As far as support from Mac owners, this is probably the best forum I've found so far. I was lucky enough to stumble into purchasing a Mac since I really did NO research. I did mess up by not doing a thorough survey and bought a boat with issues, since resolved. If you have someone nearby who is more knowledgable about boats then you, take them with you on the hunt. They may spot something that you miss. Have fun. -John
Tom, I agree with Cap'n Karl. You need to get out and look at potential boats as you find them. That way you will have a better idea of which model(s) you are interested in. Looking at deck plans, cutaways, photos, etc on the web isn't the same as going aboard and seeing for yourself what the layout and headroom really are. If possible, get the seller to take you out for a sail. At the very least, do your best impression of a marine surveyor and look into every nook and cranny. Take photos of everything since, undoubtedly you will get home and need to rethink something. If the seller isn't to keen on your exploring there may be a reason. Maybe they know of a problem they are trying to cover. Maybe they just are impatient and want a quick inspection and sale. I would think that there would be a fair amount of boats for sale that didn't get used much this season so the owners figure they should unload before winter. As far as support from Mac owners, this is probably the best forum I've found so far. I was lucky enough to stumble into purchasing a Mac since I really did NO research. I did mess up by not doing a thorough survey and bought a boat with issues, since resolved. If you have someone nearby who is more knowledgable about boats then you, take them with you on the hunt. They may spot something that you miss. Have fun. -John
One thing further
My motto always has been that anything is fixable! So as you look at potential boats, just keep that in mind too! Ive seen 22s, given away on line! So you dont want to pay to much either! In my V222 I rearranged the cabin completely to my tastes! You can see my boat in the photo archives here under 22 foot photos by owners! The boats name is the Lennon II and the pics are entitiled the perfect interior, and a windy day at the lake! Also certain areas of the hull may be weak and you can actually push in on it with your hand! Mine was in the dinette area where people had swung on the table over the years and the fiberglass weakened from it! I solved the problem by adding two wooden ribs inside to the hull! It made it as strong or stronger than new! I suspect the 24 is not much different from the 22s, they are both about the same in design!
My motto always has been that anything is fixable! So as you look at potential boats, just keep that in mind too! Ive seen 22s, given away on line! So you dont want to pay to much either! In my V222 I rearranged the cabin completely to my tastes! You can see my boat in the photo archives here under 22 foot photos by owners! The boats name is the Lennon II and the pics are entitiled the perfect interior, and a windy day at the lake! Also certain areas of the hull may be weak and you can actually push in on it with your hand! Mine was in the dinette area where people had swung on the table over the years and the fiberglass weakened from it! I solved the problem by adding two wooden ribs inside to the hull! It made it as strong or stronger than new! I suspect the 24 is not much different from the 22s, they are both about the same in design!
- Status