Looking for expert advice on Catalina 25 sailboat

Stu Jackson · Jun 3, 2012

If you are even thinking about it, buy a C25 instead of the C22. I've had both, you'll rapidly outgrow the 22, nice a boat as it is.

You may be interested, VERY interested, in these folks. They'll be glad to help you out.

http://www.catalina-capri-25s.org/forum/forum.asp?FORUM_ID=3

Happy Hunting, glad you found us, keep comin' back here, too.

PS go for a sail on the C22, you have nothing to lose, and it'll give you a good diea and a comparison when you try a C25, right?

jrowan · Jun 6, 2012

I agree with Stu about outgrowing the C 22 rather quickly. We had a C 22 and a C 25. The C 22 is really only good for occasional overnighters for a couple. We have a family of 4 & the C 25 gets crowded down below fast.

Both of these designs have the inherent weakness & maintenance required with their iron swing keels. Look hard at the winch, cable, volcano tube, etc. of each boat. If these parts look corroded they are likely original & will need replacement. If the cable fails the swing keel can slam down violently & crack the swing keel fiberglass trunk causing seepage leaks. I had to spend about a grand to rebuild the trunk on my old 85 C 25.

Also look hard at the standing & running rigging, hull to deck joint, thru hulls, & all deck fittings for corrosion & or leakage. After 30 years anything original is suspect. These boats were budget built & wear & tear exploits weaknesses. Many of these Catalinas suffer from continual neglect, which is not benign & costs a lot to refit when the time comes. Look hard at the sails & engine, if they're original then they're likely worn out.
These items drive the boat & also cost a lot to replace. Don't buy somebody else's problem, or half baked project. There are a lot of fish n the sea - don't buy the first one U see. Good luck on the hunt.

shipwreck66 · Jun 6, 2012

Absolutely get the C-25, will have a lot of motor time just getting to and from the marina to open sailing, the C-22 is a great lake boat, for a couple, but if you are going out with a spouse, and or kids, relatives, friends (who you want to keep) you will really appreciate the room of the C-25. I went ahead and splurged on a C-27 specifically because I was sick of jacking with outboards and never liked the vulnerability in marinas of exposed rudders. Once you go diesel, you'll never go back. Fixed keel will make you a much happier camper, for so many reasons.

Ray Bowles · Jun 6, 2012

I've owned a 82 C22 that I dearly loved and sailed the bottom off but you'll outgrow it quickly as you gain experence. I raced it so she worked well for that. We started off with a Hunter 26 as new sailors and it took a year to learn to sail it fairly safely and sanely.
We left the Hunter 2 years later and bought a 38' boat and cruised the Gulf and Eastern seaboard. Live the dream!
Since you probably won't be keeping your boat on a trailer at home during the off season I would advise you to look for a boat with a fixed keel as they usually have less maintanance. There are no moving parts below water. A 25 to 27 foot boat is something you will quickly grow into and it will return greater satisfaction in the long run. I disagree with the thought about a diesel on this size boat as the newer 4 cycle outboard are cheap in compairson to any inboard engine. Above 30 feet and diesel is the way to go.
Take your time this summer, walk the docks and learn every boat in your size range whether 22 foot or larger. Sailers at the dock love to show their boats to others that are interested in the hobby. When you find what you want look it over hard and have a professional look it over for the items that can bite you after purchase.
Then enjoy the grin on your face as you take her out.
Ray
I now sail a San Juan 23 that I also love.

Faris · Jun 6, 2012

I wouldn't pay too much attention to this notion of outgrowing a boat. The most practical advice anyone can give is to always buy the smallest boat you think you can live with. You'll spend more time sailing. You only outgrow a boat when you want to do a kind of sailing that your boat is too small for.

There's frankly not much you can do with a C-25 that you can't do with a C-22. It mostly just depends on how many people you will ordinarily sail with and how long you will sail for. I can't tell you how many big boats there are at the marina that never sail. The owners come out a few times a year to do maintenance, and that's about it. People tend to get boats too big for their needs. It's like people that own massive SUVs because once a year they might drive down a dirt road. They just like the idea of having the capability.

Same with boats. If you will realistically only take 2-3 people out for 2-3 overnight trips per year, then the 22 will be plenty of boat.

I recently moved up from a Venture 22 to a Catalina 27, but I'm doing this from an informed position of knowing exactly what kind of space I can live with. We spend weeks at a time on the boat, and the 22 just wasn't adequate for that kind of sailing. But, if we were only sailing day trips and the occasional weekend trip, it wouldn't be worth all of the extra work. And, I don't regret the year we spent on the 22 for one second.

It is, in my opinion, always best to start with the smallest boat possible. The list of reasons is a long one, but I won't carry on about it, because I have also found that peoples' boat purchases (my own included) are almost never primarily guided by logic, prudence, and good advice.

Most of those boats you see at the marina that never move - they are fulfilling a purpose for their owners. They represent dreams and possibilities, and sailing is as much about that as anything.

So, get the boat that captures your imagination. Ultimately, that will make you happier than anything.

jrowan · Jun 7, 2012

I thought that the question was really about advice on what to look for on a C 22 and C 25. As the previous owner / sailor of both I had to comment on the attributes of both boats. Hopefully Kettu will buy that boat that meets his real needs, not just wants.
But in all honesty we outrew both the C 22 & C25 fairly quickly. I have sailed all my life so for me its a natural progression to bigger boats to suit my lifestyle of sailing all summer, etc. While I think its commendable to buy into sailing in the small scale first, in reality if you are serious about it, then the C 22 has real limitations.

When the buyer talks about wanting to sail the Jersey Shore, Long Island area then I feel that the C 22 just doesn't give you the stability that U need in real gusts & heavy seas.
I think the C 22 is great for lakes & sheltered river basins, etc. but I think to take this boat out on the Atlantic coast is somewhat foolhearty. (I know that many will disagree with this). I am always a careful sailor, and having the weight of a real, fixed keel, considerable ballast to keep you upright in gusts, freeboard to deal with breaking seas, and a rig that doesn't feel like it should be holding up a beach umbrella is reassuring, and makes the difference when it comes to safety. That said, I agree that there are a lot of big sailboats that never get sailed. But I don't think that this is because the boat is too much for the sailor, or that it let the owner down. I think that those owners are letting their boats down. Maybe they bought more then they needed, but its usually health and work issues that keep people from sailing. I know that I live an hour from the coast & its a real commitment spending over 2 hours driving round trip an an extra tank of gas a week, which really adds up in a bad economy. I've thought that maybe sailing costs too much, but then so do psychiatrists - & my sailing keeps me sane!

CaptGregg · Jun 7, 2012

If you've never sailed, the Catalina 22 is a great first boat. I don't think you're going to go wrong at that price, when pricing a boat, you have to consider your outboard was made in the 90's, I've seen outboards selling on ebay and craigslist for $3 - $500 made in the 70's.

I don't think you will do bad buying this boat. When I bought mine, I paid $1000 for my 1977 Catalina 22 swing keel. You can use that to measure your pricing. Everything was wrong with mine or missing with exception of basics. I've had to re-wire electrical and refill a plastic compass as well as replumb.

I hope you get it, they are fun boats!

kettu7 said:
Hello fellow sailboat owners,

I am in the market for my first sailboat. I am not looking to participate in races, all I want right now is a fun time to spend an evening or a day on the water in or around New York City harbor, occasionally sailing south along New Jersey shore, east along Long Island shore or north on Hudson River. No craziness involved, just a fun family time.

From what I've read so far on the subject, it seems to me that Catalina 22 or 25 would be a good choice for my needs. I am more leaning towards the 25 model, because the marina where she will be docked requires owners to pay for a minimum of 25 feet slip.

I have scoured through a lot of boat classifieds websites, but only went to see one boat (see below), so as much as I am seeking a general advice, I'm also seeking advice on this particular boat. Unfortunately, there is not too many similar boats for sale around NYC area, so thus far I was only able to look at this particular one.

So long story short, this is the boat I went to see: boat for sale ad. It's a 1984 MkI Catalina 22 with a late 1990s 9.9HP Honda engine retractable keel and furling genoa. My first impression when I saw it was very positive, it looked like it was in a fairly good condition considering it's almost a 30 year old boat. Retractable keel mechanism appears to work fine. Some of the woodwork (to my taste, although not entirely critical), for instance, crib boards, trim rings, may need to be painted and coated, which I'd be happy to do myself. Sails are said to be in good condition, although I am yet to see that for myself when we take it for a short trip on the water next weekend. Hull below water line will be gel coated this week, so I won't have to worry about it. Above water line the hull seems to be very smooth, no rough spots. Here and there it seems to have been restored with white paint spots here and there, which I am assuming is normal (or not?), however it may need to be repainted above water line, again, to my taste. All lines, ropes and turnbuckles to be in good condition and recently replaced. Interior appears to have been well-kept, but I will be restoring some of it myself too - I'm not expecting everything to be perfect, just in a reasonably good condition.

Things that don't work are listed below. I would appreciate advice on how expensive and how hard it may be to fix:

- outgoing UHV radio signal doesn't seem to work, it is said to be a problem with an antenna, which seems like a relatively easy fix
- depth meter reader is located on stern above water line and thus doesn't always produce an expected behavior, which also doesn't seem like a big problem
- head flush is broken, so toilet wouldn't flush and flushing mechanism will need to be fixed/replaced (a problem?)

The boat comes with an alcohol-burning stove (which the previous owner hasn't used though, so it's not known to work), pop-top, cd player/fm radio/speakers. Boat owner is also willing to leave all the necessary tools behind, so I potentially can sail away on this boat and not have to worry about anything this season.

As I said, I will be meeting with him this weekend to take the boat for a ride and see it in action, but so far I am leaning more towards a yes than a no. Asking price is also reasonably fair - a $5500 altogether.
I would really appreciate expert advice on what else I should pay attention next weekend, what other questions to ask and what to check for myself.

P.S. Sorry for an extremely long post, I was just trying to give as much information as possible to get relevant advice. Thanks again for reading!

CaptGregg · Jun 7, 2012

After writing my post, I've gone back and read everyone else's post. Buy the 22 first and get some experience with a smaller boat.... then "grow" into a bigger boat. The 22 is easier to sail and is less complex in rigging. You will make mistakes, the smaller the boat, the easier to correct, the bigger the boat... you get the idea.

Now, as for size of boat vs ocean sailing. Even a 30 footer knows when to stay out of the ocean.... not because of the size, no boat can hold all the water in the ocean but because of the skipper's experience. Venture out to blue water when you're ready but do it in conditions you are comfortable in.

We have the Pamlico Sound here in NC which is considered "protected waters" BUT experienced captains have died in storms in the Pamlico... Last death I recall out there were two captains each of 20 years experience was delivering from FL to parts up north, storm grew in the Pamlico, swamped their vessel and they made the biggest mistake of leaving the vessel and drowned.

It's your experience that will tell you when to take her out and not.

Barnacle Bill · Jun 7, 2012

Now I will try to answer your questions. First of all, the bottom of the boat beneath the waterline is going to be gelcoated? why? Why gelcoat? The entire surface, or just some repair spots? If you are going to paint the entire bottom with something, it should be an epoxy water barrier to prevent blisters and then, if you are going to leave it in the water, you should apply the antifouling paint of your choice and color.
I assume you speak of the VHF antenna, which is for the marine radio (not UHF used in TV's). If you are not receiving or transmitting, then it most likely is an antenna or connection problem. The connecting hardware are called PL-259's and a PL-258 will link two PL-259's together. If they are corroded, loose or have continuity problems, then they need to be replaced. If the antenna is damaged, then replace it.
Depending on the make of the alcohol stove, they light differently. Tell me the brand name and I will tell you how to light them/it.
The head (toilet)......not sure what a flusher is. Have to know more about the type of head you have. If it is a recycling head, or a portable, or one that is permanently installed with a holding tank that takes fresh water from the lake or sea. Be more specific and I am sure I can help.
There could be a number of problems with the depth sounder. The fact that it is transom mounted is strange for starters. Is it more like a fish finder? It is preferred to have the transducer mounted through the hull and more forward than aft. Also need to know what it doesn't do. Doesn't light up at all? Probably a problem with the power lead to it. It flashes the same number at all depths? Probably need to send it in for repair. Also, check the connections just to be sure they are all ok.
What are trim rings? Never heard of them.
Am willing to help with more specific info.