Looking for Alternator Ring Terminal

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Solstice

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May 10, 2008
392
Catalina 355 Boston
Anybody know of a source for a #10 Ring Terminal for #2 AWG wire? Just placed my order with Genuinedealz and they only have 1/4" (which I ordered). I checked the usual places (Jamestown, Hamilton, Gregs etc) with no luck. Do they even exist? I realize that the 1/4" will work, but would prefer the proper size. The Alt is a Hitachi 60A on a Yanmar 3YM30 (stock Alt).
Thanks in advance...
 
F

Fred Villiard

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Dec 28, 2009
397
Macgregor M25 trailer
Digikey p/n A28017-ND AMP p/n 324052, or p/n A27093-ND AMP330301, are two that come to mind right off.

Fred Villiard
 
jviss

jviss

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Feb 5, 2004
7,089
Tartan 3800 20 Westport, MA
Just curious, for a 60A alternator, why #2 wire? Does it just happen to be #2 that's already there, or are you re-wiring?
 
Maine Sail

Maine Sail

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Feb 6, 1998
11,709
Canadian Sailcraft 36T Casco Bay, ME
jviss said:
Just curious, for a 60A alternator, why #2 wire? Does it just happen to be #2 that's already there, or are you re-wiring?
Click to expand
Probably because the alt is self sensed and this is to avoid the horrendous voltage drops often associated with factory wiring.

I believe he is direct wiring the alt to the house bank thus the new wire. 2GA at 60A over a 20 foot circuit still results in an approx .2V drop in the charging circuit. Of course 45 - 50A is more realistic from a factory alt so that only results in approx .15V drop. If you are trying to get to 14.4V at the batteries, for the fastest possible charging, you really need as little voltage drop as you can get.. I suspect that is why he is using 2GA..

I often use 1/0 or 2/0 on high output alternators but these alts have beefy 5/16" positive and negative posts....



Solstice,

I will check and see if I have any 2GA X #10 lugs. I had some but I can't recall who made them. Got them from my local distributor...
 
jviss

jviss

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Feb 5, 2004
7,089
Tartan 3800 20 Westport, MA
Yes, that's what I was thinking. But with an internally regulated, "stock" Hitachi 60A alternator you are unlikely to get 14.4V anywhere; it's probably set to 13.6V or close to it, and only intended to recharge the start battery and run some light accessories, not charge a deep-cycle house bank. The 2% drop is insignificant compared to the fact that the alternator is likely overloaded (thermally) with even just 2 group 24 deep cycle batts, and will never get them to a proper acceptance charge voltage.
 
Maine Sail

Maine Sail

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Feb 6, 1998
11,709
Canadian Sailcraft 36T Casco Bay, ME
jviss said:
Yes, that's what I was thinking. But with an internally regulated, "stock" Hitachi 60A alternator you are unlikely to get 14.4V anywhere; it's probably set to 13.6V or close to it, and only intended to recharge the start battery and run some light accessories, not charge a deep-cycle house bank. The 2% drop is insignificant compared to the fact that the alternator is likely overloaded (thermally) with even just 2 group 24 deep cycle batts, and will never get them to a proper acceptance charge voltage.
Click to expand
Most Hitachi's on the newer engines are regulated to 14.5V +/- 0.3V. They then temp compensate to keep cool.:cussing: They really do lack at charging large banks when they get hot compared to alts that don't temp compensate to prevent burning up. I do know Solstice is slowly upgrading and the alt is on his short list. Nothing wrong with getting the wiring in good shape and doing the upgrade incrementally. You can always by-pass the internal regulator and add an external but a true heavy duty alt is always a better solution.
 
S

Solstice

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May 10, 2008
392
Catalina 355 Boston
Maine Sail said:
Probably because the alt is self sensed and this is to avoid the horrendous voltage drops often associated with factory wiring.

I believe he is direct wiring the alt to the house bank thus the new wire. 2GA at 60A over a 20 foot circuit still results in an approx .2V drop in the charging circuit. Of course 45 - 50A is more realistic from a factory alt so that only results in approx .15V drop. If you are trying to get to 14.4V at the batteries, for the fastest possible charging, you really need as little voltage drop as you can get.. I suspect that is why he is using 2GA..

I often use 1/0 or 2/0 on high output alternators but these alts have beefy 5/16" positive and negative posts....

Solstice,

I will check and see if I have any 2GA X #10 lugs. I had some but I can't recall who made them. Got them from my local distributor...
Click to expand
Thank you Maine Sail, I would appreciate it. Yes, the reason for the #2 is to minimize voltage drop--long round trip. As MS says I am in the process of a rewire (thanks again MS). Since I currently am on shore power with 2-3 weeks away at a time, the Alt and Solar panels will be next.

MS--just got my FTZ crimper from KL Jack and took a quick look at their calibration instructions. Seems way off. I will calibrate, but wondering if you have any tips on doing this?
 
Maine Sail

Maine Sail

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Feb 6, 1998
11,709
Canadian Sailcraft 36T Casco Bay, ME
jviss said:
Wow, that's hot for a dumb regulator - won't that eventually boil away the water?
Click to expand
Most alts for the last 30 years or so have been set at 14.2V - 14.6V. Of course with the poor factory wiring and voltage drop they don't come up to these voltages until the very end of charge when little to no current is flowing.

On sailboats it is pretty darn hard to over charge batteries with an alt. The last time I saw overcharge on a sailboat was from an unregulated solar panel or a failed battery charger. I honestly can't recall ever seeing it from an alternator on a sailboat unless the regulator totally crapped out and sent the batts over 15V...

Our own boat ran a dumb reg set to 14.4V for close to 3000 hours during a 5 year cruise and the batteries lasted 6 years. That is the equivalent of 30 years of coastal cruising at 100 hours per year all crammed into five years... The scare of over charging is more for long term shore chargers not necessarily alts.

I just replaced a battery bank a few weeks ago that I found interesting. It was on a Island Gypsy trawler that has a dumb regulated alt set to 14.5V. Batteries were from 2005 and were 6V.. Owner added water about twice per year and the boat went down the ditch every winter and back each spring.... Pretty good life with no float.....
 
S

Solstice

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May 10, 2008
392
Catalina 355 Boston
One of the reasons this has taken so long is because I had to make room for the Buss Bars, Echo Charger, Alt maintenance switch, shunt etc by cutting a large hole in my brand new boat:eek:
Here is the before and after:
 

Attachments

Maine Sail

Maine Sail

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Feb 6, 1998
11,709
Canadian Sailcraft 36T Casco Bay, ME
Solstice,

I just checked my 2GA lugs and I don't have any #10 holes. I only have one 1/4" left. Guess I need to get an order going. For your alt just use a 1/4" lug and a copper washer on top of the alt nut..
 
S

Solstice

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May 10, 2008
392
Catalina 355 Boston
Maine Sail said:
Solstice,

I just checked my 2GA lugs and I don't have any #10 holes. I only have one 1/4" left. Guess I need to get an order going. For your alt just use a 1/4" lug and a copper washer on top of the alt nut..
Click to expand
Thanks for checking MS. I did order the 1/4 from GD and will add the copper washer.
 
S

SVTatia

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Feb 12, 2011
33
Allied Luders 33 Toronto
Solstice said:
...MS--just got my FTZ crimper from KL Jack and took a quick look at their calibration instructions. Seems way off. I will calibrate, but wondering if you have any tips on doing this?
Click to expand
If you don't mind I would like to find out about any tips as well....

Thanks
 
S

Solstice

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May 10, 2008
392
Catalina 355 Boston
SVTatia said:
If you don't mind I would like to find out about any tips as well....

Thanks
Click to expand
I have spoken to FTZ and the tech was not in yesterday and is supposed to call me back on Monday. I also spoke with KL Jack (what a wonderful shop to deal with BTW) and Pete said if I don't get a call back to let him know and he will track down proper calibration technique. He asked that I let him know what I find because he would like to know himself so he can share with other customers.
I will certainly post my findings.

For those wondering what we are referring to, the FTZ (non-ratcheting) crimper that Maine Sail has recommended has less than ideal calibration instructions. Mine came with significant mis-calibration based on their instructions.
The two items that are not clear are what point on the end of the handles to measure from (inside, middle or outside) and you are supposed to bring the dies together so they are 'just touching' before measuring. However, the bottom part of the 'diamond' touches before the top, so wondering if you should bring together until both touch??
 
Stu Jackson

Stu Jackson

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Feb 26, 2004
23,047
Catalina 34 224 Maple Bay, BC, Canada
Overcharging Myths

Further to Maine Sail's Reply #9:

Overcharging with Combiners or ACRs The MYTH:
http://c34.org/bbs/index.php/topic,7052.0.html

If chargers and ACRs won't overcharge, an alternator sure won't.

All the best, too, to Solstice - cutting your first holes in a new-to-you boat is an adventure, even moreso in a brand new boat. Looks like nice work. We know you'll end up with a great system. I don't know if Maine Sail has seen your C355 Electrical 101 post, but it was nicely done.
 
S

Solstice

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May 10, 2008
392
Catalina 355 Boston
Stu Jackson said:
Further to Maine Sail's Reply #9:

Overcharging with Combiners or ACRs The MYTH:
http://c34.org/bbs/index.php/topic,7052.0.html

If chargers and ACRs won't overcharge, an alternator sure won't.

All the best, too, to Solstice - cutting your first holes in a new-to-you boat is an adventure, even moreso in a brand new boat. Looks like nice work. We know you'll end up with a great system. I don't know if Maine Sail has seen your C355 Electrical 101 post, but it was nicely done.
Click to expand
Thanks Stu, really appreciate it.
This is actually the third hole-they have gotten progressively bigger ;) hopefully it's the last for awhile. Probably not the right place to admit this, but I do enjoy messing about with my boats as much as sailing them. When I get a boat I usually spend a few years upgrading, then it's time to move on to the next one. This however is our retirement boat, so I'll have to really take my time with the upgrades.
Thanks for the kind words on my write up for the 355 owners, I don't think MS has seen it, but I'll shoot it over to him as I always welcome his input. We had a great conversation a couple of weeks ago....
 
S

SVTatia

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Feb 12, 2011
33
Allied Luders 33 Toronto
Solstice said:
I have spoken to FTZ and the tech was not in yesterday and is supposed to call me back on Monday. I also spoke with KL Jack (what a wonderful shop to deal with BTW) and Pete said if I don't get a call back to let him know and he will track down proper calibration technique. He asked that I let him know what I find because he would like to know himself so he can share with other customers....
Click to expand
Solstice, did they get back to you with the proper calibration instructions?
 
S

Solstice

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May 10, 2008
392
Catalina 355 Boston
SVTatia said:
Solstice, did they get back to you with the proper calibration instructions?
Click to expand
They did not. KL Jack said they would follow up for me if I didn't hear back, but I never followed up as I had to finish this project up. I have one more round of crimping to do, so will give them a call once the boat is put away. Are you also looking for instructions?
 
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