Well, as you will understand I'm new to the sailing and trying to learn that is why my questions may sound silly. Thinking about getting a sailboat, but want to know some basics first. I got few books for the beginners, but could not find an answer on several different questions and decided to give it a try here. First I'm trying to get an idea if I should consider a used boat (and if so how old) or new. So here is the first one. What is lifetime expectancy on the sailboat in general and what factors effecting it? I guess you can maintain it forever, but at some point maintenance takes more time than usage and gets way too expensive. So what is an average time to that point, what is the main factor/s that make it happened? I'm taking about cruiser between 32 and 40 feet. Initially thinking about using it here on Great Lakes (Lake Michigan as a start), but in the future would love to do long passes like across Atlantic to Europe and so on, but that is at least about 10 years from now. So is it reasonable to consider let say 40-foot cruiser right away looking that far ahead, or it's better to go with lets say 32' and maybe switch it later? I realize such things like let say after long use and/or bad maintenance engine may need some serious repair or replacement, but what else? Is there some book that can give me answers on such questions? My e-mail address is <chayka@earthlink.net> and I'll be glad to receive direct e-mail or to find a reply here. Any help will be appreciated. Thanks a lot, Severin.
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Don Riha
Some thoughts
Never found a book that answers all the questions. Sailboats can last forever, with maintenance and care. Assuming money is a concern, I would start with a 28 to 32 foot boat that is approx 3 to 5 years old, depending on condition and a surveyors review. Assume that you will trade it in 5 years, if you deceide that you want or need a bigger boat. That allows you to determine what you like and don't like and makes you a more knowledgable buyer when you move up into a larger boat. Type of use and care have more impact on a boat than age. Sails, motor and hull construction (blisters, delamination, water penetration) are the big ticket items so these need to be checked first. With a used boat, minor maintenance is required every year. Cleaning, sail stiching, electronics malfunctions, winch lubrication, filters, fluid changes, line replacements, leaks, etc. It's what you get in lieu of the big first year depreciation of a new boat. If you plan on single hand sailing the boat set up is important.
Never found a book that answers all the questions. Sailboats can last forever, with maintenance and care. Assuming money is a concern, I would start with a 28 to 32 foot boat that is approx 3 to 5 years old, depending on condition and a surveyors review. Assume that you will trade it in 5 years, if you deceide that you want or need a bigger boat. That allows you to determine what you like and don't like and makes you a more knowledgable buyer when you move up into a larger boat. Type of use and care have more impact on a boat than age. Sails, motor and hull construction (blisters, delamination, water penetration) are the big ticket items so these need to be checked first. With a used boat, minor maintenance is required every year. Cleaning, sail stiching, electronics malfunctions, winch lubrication, filters, fluid changes, line replacements, leaks, etc. It's what you get in lieu of the big first year depreciation of a new boat. If you plan on single hand sailing the boat set up is important.
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Tim
Other thoughts
1. Sailboats pretty much last forever, except for: -sails (7-10 years, $3000 for new) -motor (5000+ hours, figure 15+ years; $8000 for a new diesel) -electronics (7-10 years; variable) -sheets, halyards (6-10 years; $400) -interior cushions (6-10 years; $2000+) I like a 7-10 year old boat and figure it costs 1/3 of new. I'll pick out my own sails and cushions. Costs are for a typical 30-32 footer. Things like water pumps, bilge pumps, lights, toilet valves, cutless bearings, water heater elements, etc. are things that break regularly but are <$100, IF YOU DO IT YOURSELF. Yards charge $65+ per hour to do it for you. I spend $500-$700/per year for spring prep and these sort of items. Triple that if you hire someone. This sort of thing is true for new or old boats. 2. Forty feet is WAY too big for your first boat. Get the smallest thing you can that has an inboard and a real marine head and use it until it won't go where you need it to. A trailerable is a major advantage in learning how to maintain a boat. Keep in mind that most people who start with a large first boat give the sport up. The higher costs, the intimidating docking experiences, and the large sail loads balanced against the advantage of telling your friends how big your boat is, don't tend to work out. In addition, boats are very different; you won't know what kind you really like until you've done it for awhile.
1. Sailboats pretty much last forever, except for: -sails (7-10 years, $3000 for new) -motor (5000+ hours, figure 15+ years; $8000 for a new diesel) -electronics (7-10 years; variable) -sheets, halyards (6-10 years; $400) -interior cushions (6-10 years; $2000+) I like a 7-10 year old boat and figure it costs 1/3 of new. I'll pick out my own sails and cushions. Costs are for a typical 30-32 footer. Things like water pumps, bilge pumps, lights, toilet valves, cutless bearings, water heater elements, etc. are things that break regularly but are <$100, IF YOU DO IT YOURSELF. Yards charge $65+ per hour to do it for you. I spend $500-$700/per year for spring prep and these sort of items. Triple that if you hire someone. This sort of thing is true for new or old boats. 2. Forty feet is WAY too big for your first boat. Get the smallest thing you can that has an inboard and a real marine head and use it until it won't go where you need it to. A trailerable is a major advantage in learning how to maintain a boat. Keep in mind that most people who start with a large first boat give the sport up. The higher costs, the intimidating docking experiences, and the large sail loads balanced against the advantage of telling your friends how big your boat is, don't tend to work out. In addition, boats are very different; you won't know what kind you really like until you've done it for awhile.
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LaDonna Bubak - Planet Catalina
Go smaller
Have to agree with Tim. If you're truly just starting out, lean towards a smaller boat. If you plan on overnighting or weekending on your boat, don't go smaller than 27'. A Catalina 30 might be the perfect option for you. There about a jillion out there to choose from and they are always in demand so when you finally "sell up" to your dream boat, you're almost guaranteed a relatively quick sale. Not only that but the company is still alive and kicking and has customer service second to none. As far as "lifespan" for a fiberglass boat? Nobody knows! FRP ("fiberglass reinforced plastic") boats have been made since the '50s - 40 years and still kicking! They could conceivably last for 1000 years. I mean, there are wood boats out there that are well over 100 years old so you do the math. Always, always, always have any boat you're thinking of buying surveyed by a professional marine surveyor. But don't be afraid of older boats. I have a 1973 C27 that is in better shape than many later models in my home town. You can find older boats in great condition down to half sunk (sometimes all sunk). Figure out how much work you want to do (sounds like very little) and go from there. And remember: Don't buy a boat if you don't want to do *any* maintenance cuz new boats require just as much maintenance as older boats. It's the initial fixing-up that is different. Good luck! LaDonna
Have to agree with Tim. If you're truly just starting out, lean towards a smaller boat. If you plan on overnighting or weekending on your boat, don't go smaller than 27'. A Catalina 30 might be the perfect option for you. There about a jillion out there to choose from and they are always in demand so when you finally "sell up" to your dream boat, you're almost guaranteed a relatively quick sale. Not only that but the company is still alive and kicking and has customer service second to none. As far as "lifespan" for a fiberglass boat? Nobody knows! FRP ("fiberglass reinforced plastic") boats have been made since the '50s - 40 years and still kicking! They could conceivably last for 1000 years. I mean, there are wood boats out there that are well over 100 years old so you do the math. Always, always, always have any boat you're thinking of buying surveyed by a professional marine surveyor. But don't be afraid of older boats. I have a 1973 C27 that is in better shape than many later models in my home town. You can find older boats in great condition down to half sunk (sometimes all sunk). Figure out how much work you want to do (sounds like very little) and go from there. And remember: Don't buy a boat if you don't want to do *any* maintenance cuz new boats require just as much maintenance as older boats. It's the initial fixing-up that is different. Good luck! LaDonna
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Richard Gresham
Advise
1) Learn to sail first. Learn to sail in a dinghy or single handed boat like a laser if possible. Join a club or a community sailing organization in your area. Enroll in a US Coast Guard safety course and also US Power Squadren navigation courses. When that challenge is as easy as tying your shoes I would move on to.... 2) A boat 30' or less. Buy used. Make sure it surveyed by an Accredited Marine Surveyor (SAMS). they're listed on the web. Learning the systems of a boat this size will be much more managable in all aspects than a larger boat. I would agree that 40' is too much boat unless you have the crew to fill it out.
1) Learn to sail first. Learn to sail in a dinghy or single handed boat like a laser if possible. Join a club or a community sailing organization in your area. Enroll in a US Coast Guard safety course and also US Power Squadren navigation courses. When that challenge is as easy as tying your shoes I would move on to.... 2) A boat 30' or less. Buy used. Make sure it surveyed by an Accredited Marine Surveyor (SAMS). they're listed on the web. Learning the systems of a boat this size will be much more managable in all aspects than a larger boat. I would agree that 40' is too much boat unless you have the crew to fill it out.
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Alex
I have to agree with Don..
on most issues , especially size of first boat (28-32) and age (3-5 years.) But before buying any , have some real sailing with a friend/charter/club sailboat ; several times of both short (3-5 hours) and longer (12-24 hours) sailing in various weather conditions , to be shure a.that you really like it and ..b.feel OK and don't get much seasick.. Buy a boat of 'regular' rig/hull configuration , middle of the road sailboat , nothing unique or irregular ,that might get depreciated in price as fades changes... Since being novice you won't like-or know- to do a lot of mentenance so a good survey - or two - is a must. If- and when in next stage- you will decide that blue water sailing is for you , AND you have the guts,time, crew and money to do it across the pond , you will need a bigger one of 37-40 feet of sturdy cruising kind , and by then hopefully you have learned a lot about sailing and boats. But first , start sailing and start some formal learning . Good luck.
on most issues , especially size of first boat (28-32) and age (3-5 years.) But before buying any , have some real sailing with a friend/charter/club sailboat ; several times of both short (3-5 hours) and longer (12-24 hours) sailing in various weather conditions , to be shure a.that you really like it and ..b.feel OK and don't get much seasick.. Buy a boat of 'regular' rig/hull configuration , middle of the road sailboat , nothing unique or irregular ,that might get depreciated in price as fades changes... Since being novice you won't like-or know- to do a lot of mentenance so a good survey - or two - is a must. If- and when in next stage- you will decide that blue water sailing is for you , AND you have the guts,time, crew and money to do it across the pond , you will need a bigger one of 37-40 feet of sturdy cruising kind , and by then hopefully you have learned a lot about sailing and boats. But first , start sailing and start some formal learning . Good luck.
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Earl Womack
Start Smaller
Any boat you buy should be surveyed prior to sale. Start smaller than a 40 ft. Get between a 30 and 34 ft, something you can sail singlehanded if you want to go out on your own. I have been owning a 34 ft. for 14 years now and when I bought the boat I knew nothing about sailing. I am confident now about sailing and feel I could move up to a larger boat with no problem. An old sailer once told me boat upkeep is like having a hole in the water you keep throwing money into. Bottom job every 2 or 3 years will cost around $45 per ft. Slip rentals, new sails, and don't forget the new eletronic gagets. get into it whole heartedly and you will enjoy yourself, happy sailing.
Any boat you buy should be surveyed prior to sale. Start smaller than a 40 ft. Get between a 30 and 34 ft, something you can sail singlehanded if you want to go out on your own. I have been owning a 34 ft. for 14 years now and when I bought the boat I knew nothing about sailing. I am confident now about sailing and feel I could move up to a larger boat with no problem. An old sailer once told me boat upkeep is like having a hole in the water you keep throwing money into. Bottom job every 2 or 3 years will cost around $45 per ft. Slip rentals, new sails, and don't forget the new eletronic gagets. get into it whole heartedly and you will enjoy yourself, happy sailing.
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