What do you recommend as a short-list of sailboats that meet the following criteria? I am looking to buy a used or maybe a new daysailer. My criteria are listed in rough order of importance. 1. Price Intial sailaway cost should be less than $25,000. 2. Ease of Handling The boat must be able to be sailed single handed. 3. Cockpit I want a big cockpit, minimum capacity of 6 adults for up to 4 hours for inshore daysailing/evening/night sailing. Even better would the possibility to accomodate up to 8 adults on inshore social sail for up to 4 hours. 4. Overnight Accomodations Adequate for overnight sleeping for my wife and I on rare occasions. 5. Seaworthiness I would like a boat that is seaworthy enough to handle "Small Craft" warning conditions without undue risk to the crew. I intend to sail on Lake Erie from March 15 to November 15. I do not mind rough going, spray, and cold for up to eight hours. I do mind a knockdown or a demasting. It would good to handle the rough water on Lake Erie, which can get very steep short choppy six foot waves in a short time frame. I hate to have run for cover or turn around when the wind starts to climb over 20 knots. I do plan to avoid Gale conditions. I would like to be able to sail across the Lake Erie to the Canadian side, which is 70 miles north of Cleveland, without concern that my boat might not be able to handle the sea conditions that could build up in such a passage. Therefore a self-bailing cockpit and a bridgedeck would be of value. I know my desire for a big cockpit works against my desire to be able to deal with a popping. 5. Draft My ideal would be boat that could draw less than three feet with a centerboard, swing keel, or dagger board up. 6. Storage Room for an cooler and the other usual daysail or weekend sail items would be needed. 7. Engine & Electrics I want to do a lot of evening and night sailing. The engine must be able to charge battery(s). Inboard diesel first choice, inboard gas second, an outboard third choice but very acceptable. 8. Builder I would prefer to buy a sailboat that was built by a company that is still around. I am concerned about parts and support. Even better would be builder that has a dealer within 50 miles of Cleveland. 9. PHRF Racing not important but a PHRF below 200 would be good. A PHRF above 260 is starting to become unacceptably slow. 10. Trailer A boat that is trailerable would be an advantage. Not high priority. 11. Swimming Ease of entry from swimming would be an advantage. 12. Rig Sloop rig first choice. 13. Shower Nice to have but not very important would be a pressure hot and cold shower. 14. Head Nice to have but not very important would be an enclosed head. 15. Cooking A small stove would be good but not essential. Your advice and counsel would be greatly appreciated. Sincerely, Mark Corson mark.corson@ey.com
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choice of boat for Mark
Hey Mark sounds like you are talking of a cat (rig)boat to me. Beamy, large cockpit, seaworthy.
Hey Mark sounds like you are talking of a cat (rig)boat to me. Beamy, large cockpit, seaworthy.
Daysailer
Take a look at the Hunter 30 Cherubini design, 1975-1983. Fantastic pocket cruiser. Has almost all your requirements. -R.
Take a look at the Hunter 30 Cherubini design, 1975-1983. Fantastic pocket cruiser. Has almost all your requirements. -R.
Choices
I think you still have a list of a couple dozen boats to choose from. What's your limit on age? That $25K won't go very far with a new boat, but if you look back to boats made in the mid 70's or 80's, your choices open up tremendously. You can get a very high quality, well maintained boat of around 27-30' for $25K.
I think you still have a list of a couple dozen boats to choose from. What's your limit on age? That $25K won't go very far with a new boat, but if you look back to boats made in the mid 70's or 80's, your choices open up tremendously. You can get a very high quality, well maintained boat of around 27-30' for $25K.
Broker
By the way, it wouldn't hurt to send this list of requirements to a broker in your area. You have a much better idea of what you want than most people do and the broker makes his/her living at matching needs to boats. Good luck!!! (Oh, and add the Sabre 28 to your list!! We love ours and it meets most of your requirements except for the shoal keel & trailoring...)
By the way, it wouldn't hurt to send this list of requirements to a broker in your area. You have a much better idea of what you want than most people do and the broker makes his/her living at matching needs to boats. Good luck!!! (Oh, and add the Sabre 28 to your list!! We love ours and it meets most of your requirements except for the shoal keel & trailoring...)
Daysailer?
Great spec., but it looks more like a pocket cruiser than a daysailer. For day sailing, by brother, who now has a Rhodes 19, is considering a Colgate 26. This was selected by the US Naval Academy for sail training. Sleeps two in a pinch, great day sailing performance, and racing. See link
Great spec., but it looks more like a pocket cruiser than a daysailer. For day sailing, by brother, who now has a Rhodes 19, is considering a Colgate 26. This was selected by the US Naval Academy for sail training. Sleeps two in a pinch, great day sailing performance, and racing. See link
I don't think trailering is an option. I weigh in
from the trailerable side of sailing with a 95 Hunter 26 which is about the biggest truly trailerable boat size that can be launched rather than slung and it doesn't meet you criteria. I do think that in the years from 74 up thru 85, maybe 89 you will find many boats in your price range that will do the job. Depending on your experence level you might look at a school before buying a boat if you don't sail yet. This will add confidence towards size on your new boat. If your experenced then no prob. Ray S/V Speedy Good luck and enjoy.
from the trailerable side of sailing with a 95 Hunter 26 which is about the biggest truly trailerable boat size that can be launched rather than slung and it doesn't meet you criteria. I do think that in the years from 74 up thru 85, maybe 89 you will find many boats in your price range that will do the job. Depending on your experence level you might look at a school before buying a boat if you don't sail yet. This will add confidence towards size on your new boat. If your experenced then no prob. Ray S/V Speedy Good luck and enjoy.
Tartan?
You live and sail in Tartan land. Except for trailering Tartan meets most of your requirements. I also sail on Lake Erie and would feel very secure with a Tartan, in fact took my USSAILING course on a T-10. The link below to YachtWorld is a list of 27 to 30 footers. For the money a Cherubini Hunter like the H30 or H33 is a heck of a boat. I own a Cherubini, an H37C that I often single-hand.
You live and sail in Tartan land. Except for trailering Tartan meets most of your requirements. I also sail on Lake Erie and would feel very secure with a Tartan, in fact took my USSAILING course on a T-10. The link below to YachtWorld is a list of 27 to 30 footers. For the money a Cherubini Hunter like the H30 or H33 is a heck of a boat. I own a Cherubini, an H37C that I often single-hand.
I sail on Lake Erie...
On an '82 Hunter 27 deep keel(important on Lake Erie) that I purchased for $15,000 back in '95... from what the sales guys tell me at Toledo Beach Yacht Sales, these boats are a steal. I'll bet you could find one for anywhere from $8-10,000.00. They make great daysailers. The only drawback is the sleeping quarters, or, should I say quarter berths (no queen sized berth on this boat). The boat sails great, it's a Cherubini design (great looks), and can fit 5 people comfortably (6 people not so comfortably...you may want to look at a 30). If you absolutely need a quarter berth...I saw a Catalina-made Capri 26' a few years ago that actually had a nice-sized aft berth and cabin...don't know how it sails though. Happy Hunting!
On an '82 Hunter 27 deep keel(important on Lake Erie) that I purchased for $15,000 back in '95... from what the sales guys tell me at Toledo Beach Yacht Sales, these boats are a steal. I'll bet you could find one for anywhere from $8-10,000.00. They make great daysailers. The only drawback is the sleeping quarters, or, should I say quarter berths (no queen sized berth on this boat). The boat sails great, it's a Cherubini design (great looks), and can fit 5 people comfortably (6 people not so comfortably...you may want to look at a 30). If you absolutely need a quarter berth...I saw a Catalina-made Capri 26' a few years ago that actually had a nice-sized aft berth and cabin...don't know how it sails though. Happy Hunting!
One more thing...
I actually was caught in full-blown gale conditions whilst on a trip back home from the Islands. The date was August 23, 1996...I remember it well, because it scared the hell out of me. 45+ knot (sustained!!) winds, the waves were square and 10-12 feet high (with the occasional 15 foot rogue wave...I kid you not). We were making way at about 1.5 knots the whole time. The point I'm making is this...the boat handled like a champ in extreme conditions (for Lake Erie). I have a little Yanmar 1 GM diesel and that little baby kept on chugging the whole time. Needless to say...the next time I sailed in 6 foot chop, I was having a ball (BUT, I hope I never encounter another experience like August 23, 1996). For what it's worth.
I actually was caught in full-blown gale conditions whilst on a trip back home from the Islands. The date was August 23, 1996...I remember it well, because it scared the hell out of me. 45+ knot (sustained!!) winds, the waves were square and 10-12 feet high (with the occasional 15 foot rogue wave...I kid you not). We were making way at about 1.5 knots the whole time. The point I'm making is this...the boat handled like a champ in extreme conditions (for Lake Erie). I have a little Yanmar 1 GM diesel and that little baby kept on chugging the whole time. Needless to say...the next time I sailed in 6 foot chop, I was having a ball (BUT, I hope I never encounter another experience like August 23, 1996). For what it's worth.
Sounds more like a pocket cruiser than a daysailer
If you want a shower, stove and sleeping accommodations then a pocket cruiser in the 25 to 27 ft range is probably what you're after, in which case $25k is a realistic budget. If an open daysailer is what you're really after, then my suggestion (no shower, stove or berths, but fits all the other criteria) would be a Flying Scot. If you want something larger, try a Highlander (they're not easy to find). Good luck. Peter H23 "Raven"
If you want a shower, stove and sleeping accommodations then a pocket cruiser in the 25 to 27 ft range is probably what you're after, in which case $25k is a realistic budget. If an open daysailer is what you're really after, then my suggestion (no shower, stove or berths, but fits all the other criteria) would be a Flying Scot. If you want something larger, try a Highlander (they're not easy to find). Good luck. Peter H23 "Raven"
Beneteau or Jeanneau
I'd recommend looking at pre 1990 Beneteau or Jeanneau models. Specifically the Beneteau First 26 and the Jeanneau Fantasia. They can both be found with swing keels, have sizable cockpits, excellent weekending accomodations, Beam is 9.5', trailerable with a permit, they are reasonably fast (PHRF in the 180 range I think), Both companies still exist and parts are easily obtained, inboard diesels are the standard propulsion, and both models are actively sailed in some pretty big water regularly. I recommend doing a search on Yachtworld.com to get an idea of what you can find.
I'd recommend looking at pre 1990 Beneteau or Jeanneau models. Specifically the Beneteau First 26 and the Jeanneau Fantasia. They can both be found with swing keels, have sizable cockpits, excellent weekending accomodations, Beam is 9.5', trailerable with a permit, they are reasonably fast (PHRF in the 180 range I think), Both companies still exist and parts are easily obtained, inboard diesels are the standard propulsion, and both models are actively sailed in some pretty big water regularly. I recommend doing a search on Yachtworld.com to get an idea of what you can find.
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