Looking for a day sailer - how big is too big? Weak points?

[swampdog]

I'm looking for a smaller sailboat to take out on small to medium sized lakes. Much of the time, I would be alone on the boat or with someone who is just along for the ride. My limited sailing experience is mainly on boats 16 feet or so in length.

Odays in the 22 to 25 foot range seem quite common in this area. A 25 footer would be too big, but a 22 might interest me. Is a 22 footer too big for one person to handle?

I know that not everyone likes the same things, but is a boat this size as much fun on a smaller lake as a smaller boat in the 16 foot size range?

Another question - What are the weak points or trouble prone areas of the older Oday boats (70s) in this size range? What should one look out for?

 

[Joe11688]

Are you planning on trailering? Do you want a small cabin sailboat or an open day sailer? Are you over 50 years old? If you buy a 22' sailboat you may need to buy something to haul it. Are you interested in buying an O'Day? You could handle a 22' sailboat pretty easy. I do. What kind of a sailboat are you interested in? Do you plan on leaving it in the water? How much are you looking to spend?

 

[swampdog]

I do have a spot in a small marina where I could keep a sailboat, although it would have to come out of the water onto a trailer for the winter or to take it to other lakes. We have hundreds of lakes within a few hours drive.

Open daysailer or small cabin? That is the big question. I enjoy a bit of excitement, and some of the outings we have had on smaller boats of 14 to 16 feet certainly have proven interesting. One boat had a major rigging failure just as we needed to turn to avoid large rocks in a strong wind; the captain/boat owner ended up in the water underneath the collapsed mast and sails. Another time we put a boat upside down and had to right it. Even when everything goes well, one usually ends up soaked from the spray on the smaller boats. As someone who loves water, getting wet is fine.

The times I have been on a larger boat with a small cabin have been much less eventful. Sort of like riding in a chauffered limo as compared to driving a sportscar. Maybe it was just the owners of those boats who sailed more conservatively. Of course one would not want to put a 22 or 25 footer over; how would one ever right it?

One reason I asked about the Odays is that they look like a good boat and I probably can find one for sale locally.

Regarding age, yes, over 50. Is that over the hill? Not senile yet and work out every day.

 

[Joe11688]

I do have a spot in a small marina where I could keep a sailboat, although it would have to come out of the water onto a trailer for the winter or to take it to other lakes. We have hundreds of lakes within a few hours drive.

Open day sailer or small cabin? That is the big question. I enjoy a bit of excitement, and some of the outings we have had on smaller boats of 14 to 16 feet certainly have proven interesting. One boat had a major rigging failure just as we needed to turn to avoid large rocks in a strong wind; the captain/boat owner ended up in the water underneath the collapsed mast and sails. Another time we put a boat upside down and had to right it. Even when everything goes well, one usually ends up soaked from the spray on the smaller boats. As someone who loves water, getting wet is fine.

The times I have been on a larger boat with a small cabin have been much less eventful. Sort of like riding in a chauffered limo as compared to driving a sportscar. Maybe it was just the owners of those boats who sailed more conservatively. Of course one would not want to put a 22 or 25 footer over; how would one ever right it?

One reason I asked about the Odays is that they look like a good boat and I probably can find one for sale locally.

Regarding age, yes, over 50. Is that over the hill? Not senile yet and work out every day.

If you're looking for an O'Day I would go for something in the 19' to 23' range with a keel/centerboard. The O'Day 192 or the OD 222 is a great boat if you can find them. They're both keel/centerboards and have cabins. You'd like the O'Day 222, but if you can't find one check out the O'Day 23's built after 1974. The older 23s had cast iron keels that would rust and cause the centerboard to get stuck. The O'Day 25s are great but unless you need cabin room, I'd go with the small sailboats that I just mentioned. Not only that but the 25s are really high in the water with too much free board for my liking. Most O'Days can have rudder issues particularly the tip up rudder models. So check the rudder blade for cracks along the seam. Even the larger O'Days have had problems with spade rudders breaking. These boats that I mentioned are trailerable but you only want to trailer them a couple of times a year unless you are able to set your boat up for easy trailering. I trailered every weekend in the summer for eight years back in the 1980s and 1990s until I joined a yacht club. I'm 66 years old and I'm looking for less work and more fun. Once you reach "Geezerdom" this type of thinking goes with the territory. This is why I asked if you were over 50. The good thing about these boats is that they aren't going to tip over as easy as a centerboard day sailer. If they do, chances are they will sink to the bottom. O'Day also built the O'Day 22 which has a stubby keel and no centerboard. They also built them with centerboards but I've never seen one. The O'Day 22 is a great little boat but lacks the windward sailing abilities of the O'Day 192, 222, and the 23 K/C boats. Check out this site for info on O'Days.
http://www.iheartodays.com/ Just take your time while you're looking. If you find something, and you have any questions take some pics and present them on this site. There are plenty of guys on this site who know O'Days in and out, who will be glad to point you in the right direction.
Good luck!
Joe

 

[RichBone]

If you're not adverse to an open boat then a Sea Pearl 21 might strike your fancy. I had one that I sailed on Lake Erie for 19 years. Sold it a year and a half ago.
http://www.marine-concepts.com/

A good website for small boats with an active forum-
http://smallcraftadvisor.com/

Rich

 

[Joe11688]

The Sea Pearl is a nice boat for sure and a friend of mine owns a Nimble Peep Hen which is 15" and has a small cabin. It's almost impossible to capsize. He's about 6' tall and there's plenty of space for him to sprawl out in. It probably won't sail as well as a Sea Pearl but it looks like a fun boat to hang out in or sail.

 

[swampdog]

Thanks for the ideas and information. Please keep it coming! I have a lot to learn.

Trinkka, you speak highly of a weighted keel with a centerboard. I have come across boats with swing down keels. Are they not as good? Would not the clearance for sailing in shallow water be similar? Or what is the drawback to the swing down keel? I have sailed in small boats with centerboards, but I don't think they had weighted keels.

Your comments about a boat actually going to the bottom if flipped caught my attention! Don't most of these boats have enough foam or other flotation built in to prevent that?

Surfing around today, I came across a "self righting" boat called a Montgomery. That sounded like a great idea.

 

[Joe11688]

Thanks for the ideas and information. Please keep it coming! I have a lot to learn.

Trinkka, you speak highly of a weighted keel with a centerboard. I have come across boats with swing down keels. Are they not as good? Would not the clearance for sailing in shallow water be similar? Or what is the drawback to the swing down keel? I have sailed in small boats with centerboards, but I don't think they had weighted keels.

Your comments about a boat actually going to the bottom if flipped caught my attention! Don't most of these boats have enough foam or other flotation built in to prevent that?

Surfing around today, I came across a "self righting" boat called a Montgomery. That sounded like a great idea.

I really believe that the keel/centerboard is a better improvement over the swing keel in this respect; The swing keels are heavy and you most likely have a strong winch in the cabin with a cable that can break. A friend of mine had a swing keel boat and when the cable broke, the keel stayed down and stuck into the mud as the tide was going out. He had to wait for a high tide and go to a local boatyard and have the boat hoisted so that he could reattach the cable to the keel. Whereas, the keel/centerboards have a short stubby lead keel with a fiberglass centerboard which weighs about 60 lbs and only requires a braid pendant line that can be accessed from the cockpit on most of the late model O'Days. So the answer is yes, the clearance of the keel/centerboard and the swing keel in shallow water would be the same, but there's a heck of a lot more weight involved with the swing keel. If my centerboard pendant line parted for some reason, I'm confident that I could get it back up with a long rope under the keel and tie it off over the cockpit for the day until I could go home and get my trailer and boat stands. Your question about the foam flotation applies to some of the older O'Day 22s and new MacGregor boats. My boat doesn't have the flotation. They also don't go over that easy and that's not to say that they can't, but if the sea conditions get really bad you should close the cabin up tight. If it does capsize, it will come back up and the water in the cockpit will go out the self bailing hose and drain out. If a squall comes up quick you need to get all the sail down and fire up the outboard and head into it or find a snug cove or protected area to wait it out in. Also, if you're out there and the wind starts to pick up, you'll need to reef your sail. The OD 222 will sail and maneuver beautiful with just the Mainsail. Some boats won't do that. It maneuvers so easy that I often come up to our club T dock under sail. I also pick up my mooring under sail. It's like sailing a day sailer. When I'm out sailing I use my electronic autopilot about 90% of the time. This frees me up to go down in the cabin and cook a meal or heat up some water for a coffee. With the roller furler, I can put my Gennie out or take it in right from the cockpit. No more going out to the bow to mess with my sail. The Montgomery sailboats are supposed to be pretty good. Check out "Small Craft Advisor" Magazine for info and evaluations on some of these boats. I really never wanted to go any bigger than my 222. It's the right size for a geezer like me who sails with his dog. I've sailed my boat in Mount Hope, Narragansett Bays, Rhode Island Sound and Vineyard Sound. She handles great and can go almost anywhere that her big sisters can go.