We are looking at buying a boat for living aboard(during summer)and doing some sailing and diving chartering in the Med(Italy). We have been looking at the Macgregor 65(1995-1998 mdels). We like the Macgregor for the size, speed and beauty but have heard thats its not a very good blue water boat, and dosnt have much storage space(Macgregor owners dont yell)but have heard the opposite from some Macgregor owners. We would love some input from all of you as to speed, comfort, ease of sailing, ease of water access, maintenance, reliabilty, etc. Any input would be appreciated and welcomed from ALL types owners..
- Status
Check out this link.............
http://www.shaftlok.com/MacGregor65ForSale.htm
........ it might answer some of your questions. They have posted a lot of detail about the boat and it is good reading.
I live in the middle of the desert here in Utah in a small town of 3700 and the other day a guy I know slightly who has sailed a lot stopped to ask me some questions about our 26S and about a 26X he is thinking of buying. During the conversation it came up that he lived aboard someone else's Mac 65 for a summer at the south end of the Sea of Cortez. He didn't have much to say good or bad about it, but mentioned that the locals kept thinking it was his boat and he must have money and neither was true.
I think it is a neat boat with possibilities if you have the money to buy one. Good luck,
Sum
Our Mac Pages
Mac Links
Some Mac 65 facts
Your question is very broad indeed. All the information is on the web, but it will take you considerable time to find everything and separate the facts from unrealistic fiction from people who really have no idea what they are talking about With that said, lets get started. Firstly, the Mac 65 was produced from 1984 to 1995 (there were two 70 footers produced for Roger Macgregor and his family in 1999). The model from 1984 to 1987 was more of a racing boat (non-pilothouse) as it was very light and will absolutely have problems as a blue water boat. It is extremely light and made of thin fiberglass. The model between 1987 and 1995 are the pilothouse versions and can be a very good blue water boat. The fiberglass is much thcker and the boat carries much more balast. Is the boat fast - you better believe it. Most will do 10 to 11.5 knots depending how much throttle you give it. Add wind (a lot) and sails and speeds of 25+ can be obtained. The Barking Spider III, was a 1987 Mac 65 (a bit customized) and held the Trans-Pac record for 22 years (an extremely long time period for racing records). Comfort?? That is an individual taste. What is comfort for one is not for another. The beam is only 12 feet, so, if you are looking for living space, other boats have more. But with a narrower boat, there is a bit more security below in heavy weather(easier to hold on to things as you walk around below). Also, a 63 foot water line gives you a much more stable ride. It is rather spartan below, just fiberglass, where wood can give you a more comforting feeling. Then again, with wood, you have to do a lot of maintenence, where as fiberglass is a simple wipe down and you are done. Ease of sailing - the Mac 65 is simple as long as you are not heading up wind in heavy seas. It does not go upwind well at all, and because of it's narrow beam, going up wind in heavy seas, the bow has a tendency to submerge into a wave very similar to a wave piercer, but not with the same results. It will suddenly stop and may eject people if not expecting the sudden stop. You have to stear the bow away from a direct wave hit to keep the bow up. But normally it is very easy to sail, in fact, one handed sailing can be done since all the controls are in the cockpit except for the mainsail raising and reefing. The 1991 and newer models have aft steps for water acces, makes things very easy for swimming, diving and man overboard situations. And with a 6 foot draft, most waterways are accessable (but always check your charts). The engine housing is under the inside nav station on all models except the 1994 and 1995 model. In those years, the engine was moved to the aft crew cabin. A smarter move since there always was a smell of deisel below. Access to the engine on either model allows plenty of room to work on it. Maintenence and reliability is directly proportional to how well you maintain your vessel. If you let any boat go, there will be prolems at inconvient times. Storage is a problem on the Mac 65 if you will be doing cruising. Many owners have pulled out berts and settees to install cabinets for storage. Oh, and let's not forget, the more you add, the more speed will be affected. Light is fast. Haul out has to be done correctly. The boat has to be supported in the correct spots or it can bend severely. Since the shell is fiberglass, it has a tendency to bend. Not necessarily bad on the water as many people try to state that there is too much flex. The racing versions flexed much worse, but everthing is built to flex. Planes felx in the air, sky scrpaers sway in the wind, bridges flex. So don't let that scare you. Unless you are being hit by a rouge wave - at that time I would only want to be aboard an air craft carrier. And I have seen rouge waves do a lot of damage to an air craft carrier!! So what chance does any sailboat have? Some people will tell you, the only boat for blue water is a steel hull (gee, I think the Titanic had a steel hull, didn't it?). Once you hit a coral reef, you will agree, but if you are careful, you will probably never hit that reef. Ocean debris is a different story. But you must consider this next part very carefully. How much do you want to spend. Someone once said that for every 10 feet extra, double the price on everything. And it is true. You can cross the ocean in a 14 foot vessel. It has been done. Would I reccommend it? Not my cup of tea. So let's be realistic, a 45 foot is a nice boat. Go to a 55 footer and it's nicer but will cost double for everything. That means docking fees, haul outs, equipment, sails, rigging, windvanes, etc. Go to a 65 footer and double the cost again. Three new sails for a Mac 65 can run you $20,000+. I will not even quote the price of new stainless steel rigging - just call your banker. The facts are, big boats are expensive. Every time you sneeze, it will cost you 1k. That's just the cost of ownership! And then there is the cost to purchase the boat. I have been watching the prices and have see most start at around $300k lately. This boat originally cost $129k, then $149k and the last model was $169k if I remember correctly. Just because people are asking $300k, does not mean they are getting it. Most are being sold in the $100k range. (some brokers update their ads with "sold" but never update the sold for price, which is generally much lower then the last updated asking price) Remember, we are talking about a 14 to 25 year old boat. Most will need work, parts replacement and upgrades, and customization. Then there is the insurance problem. Many older boats and bigger boats are deemed no longer insurable. The insurance companies have found it to be very lucrative to raise house insurance and are now following in line with boat insurance. You may want to check insurance first before considering an older or bigger boat. Also, I am not familiar with Italing boating law, but here in the states, if you plan to do charters, you will need a USCG captain's license. I am not sure what you will need in Italy, another area for you to explore. I hope I have helped to answer some of your concerns. There is much more to be said, but I hope this gives you enough knowledge to decide whether you still wish to persue the Mac 65.
Your question is very broad indeed. All the information is on the web, but it will take you considerable time to find everything and separate the facts from unrealistic fiction from people who really have no idea what they are talking about With that said, lets get started. Firstly, the Mac 65 was produced from 1984 to 1995 (there were two 70 footers produced for Roger Macgregor and his family in 1999). The model from 1984 to 1987 was more of a racing boat (non-pilothouse) as it was very light and will absolutely have problems as a blue water boat. It is extremely light and made of thin fiberglass. The model between 1987 and 1995 are the pilothouse versions and can be a very good blue water boat. The fiberglass is much thcker and the boat carries much more balast. Is the boat fast - you better believe it. Most will do 10 to 11.5 knots depending how much throttle you give it. Add wind (a lot) and sails and speeds of 25+ can be obtained. The Barking Spider III, was a 1987 Mac 65 (a bit customized) and held the Trans-Pac record for 22 years (an extremely long time period for racing records). Comfort?? That is an individual taste. What is comfort for one is not for another. The beam is only 12 feet, so, if you are looking for living space, other boats have more. But with a narrower boat, there is a bit more security below in heavy weather(easier to hold on to things as you walk around below). Also, a 63 foot water line gives you a much more stable ride. It is rather spartan below, just fiberglass, where wood can give you a more comforting feeling. Then again, with wood, you have to do a lot of maintenence, where as fiberglass is a simple wipe down and you are done. Ease of sailing - the Mac 65 is simple as long as you are not heading up wind in heavy seas. It does not go upwind well at all, and because of it's narrow beam, going up wind in heavy seas, the bow has a tendency to submerge into a wave very similar to a wave piercer, but not with the same results. It will suddenly stop and may eject people if not expecting the sudden stop. You have to stear the bow away from a direct wave hit to keep the bow up. But normally it is very easy to sail, in fact, one handed sailing can be done since all the controls are in the cockpit except for the mainsail raising and reefing. The 1991 and newer models have aft steps for water acces, makes things very easy for swimming, diving and man overboard situations. And with a 6 foot draft, most waterways are accessable (but always check your charts). The engine housing is under the inside nav station on all models except the 1994 and 1995 model. In those years, the engine was moved to the aft crew cabin. A smarter move since there always was a smell of deisel below. Access to the engine on either model allows plenty of room to work on it. Maintenence and reliability is directly proportional to how well you maintain your vessel. If you let any boat go, there will be prolems at inconvient times. Storage is a problem on the Mac 65 if you will be doing cruising. Many owners have pulled out berts and settees to install cabinets for storage. Oh, and let's not forget, the more you add, the more speed will be affected. Light is fast. Haul out has to be done correctly. The boat has to be supported in the correct spots or it can bend severely. Since the shell is fiberglass, it has a tendency to bend. Not necessarily bad on the water as many people try to state that there is too much flex. The racing versions flexed much worse, but everthing is built to flex. Planes felx in the air, sky scrpaers sway in the wind, bridges flex. So don't let that scare you. Unless you are being hit by a rouge wave - at that time I would only want to be aboard an air craft carrier. And I have seen rouge waves do a lot of damage to an air craft carrier!! So what chance does any sailboat have? Some people will tell you, the only boat for blue water is a steel hull (gee, I think the Titanic had a steel hull, didn't it?). Once you hit a coral reef, you will agree, but if you are careful, you will probably never hit that reef. Ocean debris is a different story. But you must consider this next part very carefully. How much do you want to spend. Someone once said that for every 10 feet extra, double the price on everything. And it is true. You can cross the ocean in a 14 foot vessel. It has been done. Would I reccommend it? Not my cup of tea. So let's be realistic, a 45 foot is a nice boat. Go to a 55 footer and it's nicer but will cost double for everything. That means docking fees, haul outs, equipment, sails, rigging, windvanes, etc. Go to a 65 footer and double the cost again. Three new sails for a Mac 65 can run you $20,000+. I will not even quote the price of new stainless steel rigging - just call your banker. The facts are, big boats are expensive. Every time you sneeze, it will cost you 1k. That's just the cost of ownership! And then there is the cost to purchase the boat. I have been watching the prices and have see most start at around $300k lately. This boat originally cost $129k, then $149k and the last model was $169k if I remember correctly. Just because people are asking $300k, does not mean they are getting it. Most are being sold in the $100k range. (some brokers update their ads with "sold" but never update the sold for price, which is generally much lower then the last updated asking price) Remember, we are talking about a 14 to 25 year old boat. Most will need work, parts replacement and upgrades, and customization. Then there is the insurance problem. Many older boats and bigger boats are deemed no longer insurable. The insurance companies have found it to be very lucrative to raise house insurance and are now following in line with boat insurance. You may want to check insurance first before considering an older or bigger boat. Also, I am not familiar with Italing boating law, but here in the states, if you plan to do charters, you will need a USCG captain's license. I am not sure what you will need in Italy, another area for you to explore. I hope I have helped to answer some of your concerns. There is much more to be said, but I hope this gives you enough knowledge to decide whether you still wish to persue the Mac 65.
Looking at the Macgregor 65
I understand that Roger MacGregor, and a few people that are on his staff, are in the process of designing, and building, a brand new, MacGregor 70-footer.
The basic hull shape is the same as the "65", but it will have an additional five feet added.
It will have some moderately high-tech features that were not available when the last model of the 65-footers were produced. It should be a real, "hot rod", sail boat.
The first one made will be his personal boat. But, it may enter production, if there seems to be a demand.
It may be completed in the Spring of 2010. I can't wait to see it on the water.
I understand that Roger MacGregor, and a few people that are on his staff, are in the process of designing, and building, a brand new, MacGregor 70-footer.
The basic hull shape is the same as the "65", but it will have an additional five feet added.
It will have some moderately high-tech features that were not available when the last model of the 65-footers were produced. It should be a real, "hot rod", sail boat.
The first one made will be his personal boat. But, it may enter production, if there seems to be a demand.
It may be completed in the Spring of 2010. I can't wait to see it on the water.
production for the Macgregor 70??
http://www.macgregor26.com/65/65.htm
Here is the home page for Lionheart:
http://homepages.ihug.co.nz/~philclarke/lionheart.html
And here is the Link for the Mac 70 that is for sale:
http://www.jameslist.com/advert/51972/?dealer=1197
I have been seeing postings of the anticipated Mac 70 ever since they built the first 2 in 1999. One was for Roger Macgregor, and the other (I think) was for his son-in-law. It had been raced for several years under the name Lionheart. I am not sure if it was raced by Roger's son-in-law (or a new owner). I believe eventually both Mac 70's were sold and there is one for sale on the internet - quite a high price. Also, one was turned into a yawl. I really would have thought after 10 years, it would have been put into production by now. Don't get me wrong, I would be one of the first in line, but I believe it is more an urban legend now (sort of like sightings of Elvis). This is the link to the Factory info (but remember the 70 footers were built in 1999, not sure when one was turned into the yawl.
http://www.macgregor26.com/65/65.htm
Here is the home page for Lionheart:
http://homepages.ihug.co.nz/~philclarke/lionheart.html
And here is the Link for the Mac 70 that is for sale:
http://www.jameslist.com/advert/51972/?dealer=1197
Hi Djcoul
Thought this might be of some interest
Don't know if it is still available
http://www.yachtworld.com/boats/1985/Macgregor-Sloop-2124887/Miami/FL/United-States
Allan
Thought this might be of some interest
Don't know if it is still available
http://www.yachtworld.com/boats/1985/Macgregor-Sloop-2124887/Miami/FL/United-States
Allan
From what I noticed, this boat is also currently listed on eBay, so I would think it is still available. Some of the damage pics look kinda nasty.
I'm having difficulty finding much information on the Macgregor 65 Pilothouse.
What model years had the engine mounted aft?
How is the standing headroom in the cabin?
Thanks,
Rich
What model years had the engine mounted aft?
How is the standing headroom in the cabin?
Thanks,
Rich
not sure it would be called fast for a 65' (I thought it would be MUCH faster)
http://www.yachtscoring.com/event_results_detail.cfm?Race_Number=1&eID=395
http://www.bbyra.net/2010/Results2010/050810_KBYC_RoundIsland.pdf
-look where 'ace' ends up...
http://www.yachtscoring.com/event_results_detail.cfm?Race_Number=1&eID=395
http://www.bbyra.net/2010/Results2010/050810_KBYC_RoundIsland.pdf
-look where 'ace' ends up...
Last edited:
I just want to correct Selyobwac's recollection of the longstanding Transpac race. It was in fact "Joss" now named "Sceptre", an '84 racing model with sugar scoop stern extension that held the record for 22 years. Barking Spider III is an '87 racing model that competed in the Transpac but did not hold the record. I disagree with his views regarding the racing model being "flimsy" compared to the pilot-house version. I believe most of the 10 racing versions built have competed in many major blue water events without any issues. Reading a blog from David Kory - the current owner of Barking Spider III suggests the only hull difference between the two models are hull-to-deck joint & keel mods. Fibreglass thickness is the same.
Just my .02 worth...
Just my .02 worth...
Hi Jez,
They auctioned this one in Brisbane a month or so back and from memory it was passed in at $100,000.
http://www.marineauctions.com.au/?m=11
Just in case you are interested it looks like they are going to try again on 25th June.
It really does look like a speed machine but no idea how it performs.
They auctioned this one in Brisbane a month or so back and from memory it was passed in at $100,000.
http://www.marineauctions.com.au/?m=11
Just in case you are interested it looks like they are going to try again on 25th June.
It really does look like a speed machine but no idea how it performs.
Yeah thanks Cruiser1. I noticed that one myself. Do you know any history on it? Is it a tall rig model? I tried contacting the sales office but got no reply. Knowing the Australian market, the owner will try & pass it off as some super exotic & expect the price to be so. I think I'll look at importing one from the States. I have my eye on Joss.
Hi Jez,
Don't know anything about the history but it was/is owned by a guy down the Gold Coast I think - I think it is one of the earlier boats. I have attached a photo that may give you some idea of the rigging configuration.
I own a MacGregor 26 classic. When you walk onboard the 65 it is just like walking onto an oversize 26 - similar style of mouldings, similar finish, similar way of attaching thing, etc. The thing I really like about both the 26 classic and the 65 is the deck - very easy to get around on and very solid to walk on - on the 65 of course it feels a bit more like running around on a football field.
Don't know anything about the history but it was/is owned by a guy down the Gold Coast I think - I think it is one of the earlier boats. I have attached a photo that may give you some idea of the rigging configuration.
I own a MacGregor 26 classic. When you walk onboard the 65 it is just like walking onto an oversize 26 - similar style of mouldings, similar finish, similar way of attaching thing, etc. The thing I really like about both the 26 classic and the 65 is the deck - very easy to get around on and very solid to walk on - on the 65 of course it feels a bit more like running around on a football field.
Attachments
Cruiser,
Is she near were you keep your boat? Is she a triple spreader tall rig or just the short twin spreader type?
Jez
Is she near were you keep your boat? Is she a triple spreader tall rig or just the short twin spreader type?
Jez
Hi Jez,
I live in Brisbane, about 6ks from where the boat is moored for auction. From memory I think it is double spreader but can't be sure of that. My boat is kept in mast-up storage at Horizon Shores, near Jacobs Well, halfway between Brisbane and the Gold Coast.
Looked on the auction site and the boat name is "3 C's" and Gold Coast is on the stern. It is a 1987 built boat, thus one of the later of the low deck models. I had heard that a 65 raced out of RQ here in Brisbane about 5-6 years ago?? - maybe the same boat??
My understanding of the 65 models is that MacGrgeor built about 15 of the low deck models (in the style of the 26 Classic ie. 26D & 26C) from 1984 - 1987. He then built about 100 of the pilot house model (in the style of the 26X) from 1987 - 1995.
I live in Brisbane, about 6ks from where the boat is moored for auction. From memory I think it is double spreader but can't be sure of that. My boat is kept in mast-up storage at Horizon Shores, near Jacobs Well, halfway between Brisbane and the Gold Coast.
Looked on the auction site and the boat name is "3 C's" and Gold Coast is on the stern. It is a 1987 built boat, thus one of the later of the low deck models. I had heard that a 65 raced out of RQ here in Brisbane about 5-6 years ago?? - maybe the same boat??
My understanding of the 65 models is that MacGrgeor built about 15 of the low deck models (in the style of the 26 Classic ie. 26D & 26C) from 1984 - 1987. He then built about 100 of the pilot house model (in the style of the 26X) from 1987 - 1995.
Thanks Cruiser. Yeah you're very close on the stats. I think 15 of the early race models were built, followed by 85 of the PH version making 100 all up. Roger Macgregor built two 70' versions also, one with ketch rig for himself & another sloop version for his son-in-law. Both are currently on the market for US$250k plus.
I prefer the tall rig myself. I like the cruiser/racer aspect of them but still go like a scalded cat when provoked. Combine that with the cost, there isn't anything in that size that competes for the dollar.
How did the one racing out of RQ perform? Was it competitive? It's very difficult competing these days with the average boat racing no.1 offshore at local clubs has a pedigree along the lines of an RP & is at least 50' long.
Jez
I prefer the tall rig myself. I like the cruiser/racer aspect of them but still go like a scalded cat when provoked. Combine that with the cost, there isn't anything in that size that competes for the dollar.
How did the one racing out of RQ perform? Was it competitive? It's very difficult competing these days with the average boat racing no.1 offshore at local clubs has a pedigree along the lines of an RP & is at least 50' long.
Jez
Sorry Jez, No idea about the performance of the 65 out of RQ - it was just a comment (right or wrong) I heard or saw somewhere but no idea of the boat itself. Yes I really like the lines of the 26 Classic and I guess that's exactly what I like about the 65. I was looking for a much more traditional style of boat when the 26S came up and I just fell for it straight away.
Does anyone on this forum have any photos or footage (preferably onboard or sailing) of "Joss", the '84 Mac 65 that set the record for the PV race in 1985? Please send me a pm if anyone has anything or knows a link to it.
Thanks in advance...
Thanks in advance...
- Status