Looking at my options...

RECESS · Jun 1, 2010

You may want to stay in the 22' range for what you are describing.

Great news! The sailboat market has been down for awhile as people are parting with their toys. I have a friend that recently purchased a Venture 21 that was cared for by one owner that a good friend knows personally. This boat is amazingly clean and in great shape. It has many, many extras, some still in the box. The owner recently turned 80 and wanted to find a home for his sailboat. My friend got it for $500. It is an amazing find.

Three summers ago I bought Recess for $3000, it has been a great find. There are great deals out there. I had to walk away from some boats that would have needed some serious TLC. Everything with my boat was just making it pretty, and a few minor repairs. Spend some time looking and most importantly walking away.

There are some serious deals out there. Your budget sounds doable, if you can tell a solid boat from a hole in the water that you throw a ton of money into.

RECESS · Jun 1, 2010

A 26 would fill your need. But weekends on a 19 or 20 will take the thrill out of it for your wife... or it would for mine really quick.

Joe · Jun 1, 2010

Get a Catalina 22 with swing keel. Perfect pocket cruiser in your price range.. easy to resell when you want to move up... and it's a real sailboat.
http://www.sailingtexas.com/cboats99catalina22.html
Even better is this cat 25 I just googled, comes with a trailer and it's located in Georgia. http://www.sailingtexas.com/scatalina25232.html

Whatever you do, don't get tricked into the Mac 26x or 26m.... please... an older d or s is fine... but the x and m are not good sailboats (watch the hate mail come in, now)

rejenk3 · Jun 3, 2010

Welcome astromattical,

I purchased a Catalina 22 with trailer and 5hp four stroke outboard for $3500. Though a 1980 model, it has been absolutely trouble free and short of some light gelcoat oxidation, looks near new. So purchasing a boat in your range is totally doable. In addition, many times the previous owner will leave some necessary equipment that you would have to purchase separately.

HOWEVER, buying the boat is just the start. Even though my boat needed zero corrective maintenance, there have been significant related costs. For example: Coast Guard required signaling equipment $150, additional floation devices, $100, anchor and line $300, VHF radio with GPS $250, routing the haylards to the cockpit (elective expense, but very nice safety feature) $250, dinghy (used El Toro) $250. Oh yea, I almost for got … tow vehicle $30,000.

Excuse me for now, I’m starting to feel ill…

Bob

kenn · Jun 3, 2010

We have a 19' boat that cost just under $3k complete (boat, motor, trailer) 4 years ago. It had some issues, mostly cosmetic, but was sailable from the start. I've spent maybe another $1k for repair materials, some new electronics, and boat-related stuff. She's now in much better shape.

Small boats have small problems, so most repairs are manageable.

We've spent several 3-day weekends aboard this 19' boat and we were quite comfortable. Yes my wife still likes it.

Would a 22' or 25' be more comfortable for overnighting? Of course. But if your boat was 22' or 25' would you have to buy a new vehicle to pull it? Would you daysail it at a moment's notice? We currently "drysail" our boat at a yacht club, which is quite affordable, yet gives us the full yacht-club experience, including reciprocal privileges at other clubs.

BTW, some friends of ours with the same type of 19' boat towed it to Chesapeake Bay and spent about a week cruising there. This spring they also cruised part of the Florida gulf coast.

dscribner · Jun 3, 2010

We took up sailing as a father son interest. We own a Lancer 25 with a shoal keel. 6'-0 of headroom, sleeps 5. The boat was $2200. I bought a trailer and modified it to fit the boat. Added brakes and lights for a total of $1500. So, add a little extra gear and make it $4000. We trailer it almost every weekend, sailing Caso Bay and Saco Bay. It's about as big as a trailerable can be and still be manageable. The deals are out there.

Ray Bowles · Jun 3, 2010

I've owned 3 smaller boats and sailed others.

Since 2000 we haved owned a 1995 Hunter 26 water ballast, a 1880 Catalina 22 and currently sail a 1982 San Juan 23. We trailered all 3 boats with 1/2 ton trucks or smaller in the Northwest.
The H26 was big enough to comfortably spend a week to 10 day aboard and the waterballast lowered the towing weight by #2000. It cost $16,000 and is still about that much and needs a 1/2 ton truck or larger to haul down the road.
Currently my SJ23 is also good for up to a week at a time but not as roomy as the H26. It is much more fun to sail, handles a larger range of wind conditions. I haul it with a Toyota Tocoma small truck with a V6 and this works quite well. This boat cost $4,000 but should have been 5 to 6,000.
I like this boat the best.
The C22 was the most fun of all in BIG winds, cost $4,000, tows nicely with a 1/2 ton truck. It had a pop-up top with canvas wrap around tenting at anchor. It was the best supported boat and the easiest to find a good example of as they have made well over 20,000 and are still in production.
I sail on the Columbia River behind Grand Coulee Dam.
The only boat I would personally aviod is the M26. The older boats were lightly built and all of the M26's are small compared to the above boats.
Good luck in your search.
Ray

sinnettc · Jun 3, 2010

Ray,

Don't want to hijack this thread, but I'm curious what the sailing is like up there on FDR? Are there marinas to handle boats with 4-foot keels and a good population of sailboats or is it more of a powerboater's lake?

Thanks,

Chris in soggy OR

Tom Hoffman · Jun 4, 2010

I started looking for a trailer boat about this time of the year last year. One thing that I noticed is that the prices go way down in the fall. I originally had a $12000 budget and was trying to get a 36' Hunter involved in a Bankruptcy for less than that, The slip and winter storage fees would have been $3600 per year. That was way outside my comfort zone.

I started looking for Trailer Boats last December. Still figured I would have to spend $10000 for one. Looked all over the mid west. Finally in Jan I looked in Des Moines Ia of all places, no serious water to sail there.

I found my boat. 26' American, 5400 lb displacement, built in California for off shore sailing out there on the Pacific. 6' head ht. inside, boat was complete except for the mast head sheaves, including a trailer. Asking price was $2500, ended up buying it for $1800 including a 10 hp Honda outboard for it. Since then I have added new tires, 3 extra sails and labor to paint the bottom. Right now before we put it on the water, I have $2800 total in it. By the time we get it in the water in a month, Probably have total $3000.

It is a big heavy boat and I don't look forward to towing it, but unless we want to use it for a lawn ornament. Guess I will have to. BTW, I bought it off Craig's List.

Bide your time and keep looking, your boat will find you....

Tom...

njmedic3306 · Jun 4, 2010

I cant believe how cheap some of the deals are out there. I had always wanted to learn sailing and even though I am not working I figured this was the time to jump in. I picked up a yellow Siren 17 that looks like its 2 years old. At only $1400 I could not resist even though I knew eventually I would want to upgrade. A big advantage of buying an inexpensive trailer queen is someone will always buy it making it easy to upgrade.

Good Luck,

Doug J · Jun 5, 2010

A little misleading

Ray Bowles said:
The only boat I would personally aviod is the M26. The older boats were lightly built and all of the M26's are small compared to the above boats.

Ray, your statement to avoid M26's would imply all models from 1988-2010. The older classics, 1988-1995, are completely different than 26X or 26M's. Yes, they are all light, but that's what is preferred with a trailerable.

I think all three of the boats you have owned are nice boats I would'nt mind owning any one of them myself, they are all good options. But how can you say M26's are smaller than a San Juan 23 or a Catalina 22? Those are smaller than M26's.

I own a 91' M26S, which I'm quite satisfied with. It provides great inside accomodations, sails very well, and handles rough seas very well. The older 26's 1988-1995, commonly referred to as classics, can be bought very inexpensively.

I think astromattical should consider a Mac Classic as a viable option!

Here's mine. I paid $5700 for it in 05', and it was ready to sail, but I have done a lot of upgrades to it since, and I did replace the trailer.

timebandit · Jun 7, 2010

You might have a look at this video for the mac-26s.

http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=7076785769434785211#

Ray Bowles · Jun 7, 2010

Chris, catch me off site at:

bigadventure@theofficenet.com

My best sailing friend just moved into your area last summer. We should talk. Now onward to Mac 26's.
Ray

Ray Bowles · Jun 7, 2010

Why I avoid Mac 26's

The mac 26 is a good boat for what it was designed for. Low cost, water ballasted entry boats. The mega motored Mac's and the Hunter wana'be's are both designed for the tepid sailors that wants to head home when the ice is melted or the clouds appear.
In a Mac 26 headroom is a misnomer. It rates with the C22 and that is in the area of 4 feet. The mast is somewhat thin and the rudder is phrone to breakage. All these opinions I have are based on the 4 M26's that bunk with my boat and sail the same waters.
For someone looking for a substancial trailerable sailboat that has good performance, towability and the size that allows extended time aboard I simply would avoid a Mac 26.
I sail 3 to 5 days a week and sail very hard. We spend at least 3 weeks a season living aboard while sailing. These are the reasons I have chosen the boats I mentioned.
We spent 3 years crusing on an Island Packet 38 while we were physically able to safely do it. These are only my opinions and that doesn't mean anything unless you think the way I do.
Now sail what you brung and sail hard. Enjoy every damn minute.
Ray

Jim Seamans · Jun 8, 2010

Hi Ray

Glad to see you are still at it....

Sumner · Jun 9, 2010

Ray Bowles said:
The mac 26 is a good boat for what it was designed for. Low cost, water ballasted entry boats. The mega motored Mac's and the Hunter wana'be's are both designed for the tepid sailors that wants to head home when the ice is melted or the clouds appear.
In a Mac 26 headroom is a misnomer. It rates with the C22 and that is in the area of 4 feet. The mast is somewhat thin and the rudder is phrone to breakage. All these opinions I have are based on the 4 M26's that bunk with my boat and sail the same waters.
For someone looking for a substancial trailerable sailboat that has good performance, towability and the size that allows extended time aboard I simply would avoid a Mac 26.
I sail 3 to 5 days a week and sail very hard. We spend at least 3 weeks a season living aboard while sailing. These are the reasons I have chosen the boats I mentioned.
We spent 3 years crusing on an Island Packet 38 while we were physically able to safely do it. These are only my opinions and that doesn't mean anything unless you think the way I do.
Now sail what you brung and sail hard. Enjoy every damn minute.
Ray

Ray I'm having a hard time following your response above. It seems that you are lumping all Mac 26's into the same category and mixing and matching what you perceive to be negative points.

For the record the MacGregor 26's can be lumped into two types and all of these were made during different time periods and none of these were made concurrently. All of these use water ballast.

The S's and D's were made from the mid 80's to mid 90's with the D model made first. The D was the designation due to the fact that it uses a dagger board. Then in 90 MacGregor switch production to the S model that has a swing keel. These boats have a displacement hull that means top speed with an outboard is about 6.5 knots. They sail very well and have a very respectable PHFR of around 213 to 220 ( vs. your San Juan 23's 237 average with a lower number being faster). They do have an interior headroom of a little over 4 feet, but that is with the pop-top down. With it up it is 6 feet and I'm 6-1 and can stand in it with the pop-top up. They have one of the largest aft berths of any sailboat under 30 feet.

We have a 1990 S that we purchased last year with no previous sailing experience. We were in it on the road and the water for a month long trip last year going to Idaho and Canada.....

http://purplesagetradingpost.com/sumner/Macgregor Trips-2-Priest/Priest-Kootenay-index.html

....and would of stayed out longer except we had some other engagements we had to attend to.

We were in it for a continuous 18 days.....

http://purplesagetradingpost.com/sumner/MacgregorTrips-3-Powell09/Powell-2009-index.html

...trying to sail the length of Lake Powell and hope to be on it for over 2 months this fall in Florida. All of these trips are anchored out and not at marinas. For two people the boat can be set up for extended trips and others have stayed on theirs for much longer than we have.

Following the D and S came the X and then the current M. These are also 26 feet long, but that and the water ballast are all that are in common with the D and S. They are much more spacious boats inside without the pop-top, but 6 foot headroom all the time. With that headroom comes more freeboard, so they aren't the sailors into the wind that the D and S are, but are very popular boats. Some of that popularity comes from the fact that they have a planning hull and can take outboards up to 90 HP and reach speeds over 20 mph on the outboard. Some see this as a definite advantage and if it works for them and is what they want then why to I want to question it.

Depending on their needs I would recommend an X or M over a D or S or vice versa.

I hope this clears up some of the misinformation that surrounds these boats,

Sum

P.S. Give us any amount of money to spend and we would still buy another S as it fits "our needs" perfectly and I can't see another boat out there, and I've looked a lot, that would work better for "us".

Our Trips to Lake Powell, UT - Kootenay Lake, Canada - Priest Lake, ID

Our Mac Pages

Mac-Venture Links

Ray Bowles · Jun 9, 2010

Sumner, I find my opinion quite flatulent!

I concede to your point on the different models of M26's. This boat has had a major impact on our sport. They were the first major manufacturer of an affordable, trailerable boat that allowed a platform for extended trips aboard.
The models here are the W/B early boats. They are flat out fast and a bit on the tender side but, with an experenced hand, can take quite a bit of wind. With our wind and water trends they do take a beating with rudder/rigging failures the most common fault.
That said, I find my opinion fairly flatulent. We would face a much smaller brotherhood without these models. As an entry boat, or even a lifetime partner, they are here and do satisfy a large market share. I still think the monster motored versions by Mac and Hunter somewhat repulsive.
I prefer a more robust boat as I do abuse them. I spend a good month every year with my boat next to the shop so I can repair and modify for the sailing I enjoy. I'm not into racing. I just enjoy facing whatever I draw for wind or rain.
I guess I "misrembered" as those running for office would try to have us believe.
Ray

Peggie Hall HeadMistress · Jun 9, 2010

Quite what???

Looking at my options...

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