Look at the "Sail Trim" quiz *pop

[Alan]

The results of this simple quiz show that most Hunter owners have no clew (pun intended) about sail trim. The most important part of sailing is hardly understood. I guess everyone is hanging out at their slips instead of learning how to sail. I guess this answers the question 'Why' they don't race, they don't know how to sail.

 

[Pete]

and your point is?

Not sure where you are gong with this but why?leave it alone and let people enjoy there boats as they see fit ! Enjoy your boat and let others enjoy there's and don't put your expecations on them !

 

[Phil Herring]

Interestingly, everyone is doing about the same

As of 7pm all the sites (i.e., owners of various brands) were within a few percentage points of each other.I'd be willing bet that if we had a HinkleyOwners.com it wouldn't be much different.

 

[tomlawson]

problems?

*butt, do I sense some inadequacy issues? Get a life before you criticize others for doing what they want to do. P.S. I got out of racing so I wouldn't have to deal with people like you.Tom.

 

[Bill18593]

troll....

troll.... *zzz

 

[Chris Burti]

FWIW

I am sure that 'Skipper's' comment is mostly a friendly, humorous jibe, but it opens the door for some reflections that I had after taking the quiz. I don't think that Skipper's comment is a fair assessment of the significance of the results of the quiz. A lot of boats probably aren't sailed much simply because sailing isn't every boat owners's number one time priority. As to the quiz, I answered most of the questions incorrectly, yet I am confident enough in my skills to be willing to go head to head with anyone in a pair of identically rigged class racers.Most of the questions that I missed, depended on a windward/leeward distinction. While I visualized the answers correctly, I articulated them incorrectly in my answer selection out of sloppy reading. I suspect many others may have done the same thing.I'm not sure the 'correct' answer for the last question is accurate. Again, it is a semantic issue. While my lexicon may be in error, I do know how to read the telltales. In my mind, a reach is still a point of sail where the sails operate as lifting foils. When they are pushing the vessel I consider that we are 'running'.I didn't agree with all of the answers requiring the qualitative 'most important' either, but certainly don't consider my knowledge of sail trim sufficient to dispute Don's position.These quizzes are valuable to me, because they force me to consciously consider how I sail. I always learn something from them...even if it is only an affirmation of what I think I know. Often there is a little something that I had not learned or had learned incorrectly. Thanks to all for taking time to post this stuff.As for racing, I don't race because it isn't fun for me...it's too intense and I am decades past finding that much fun more than once or twice a year. But, I do enjoy sailing my boat well when cruising, even if not optimally. And, I still pass a lot of racers with lower handicaps and better sails when we're going in the same direction on Saturdays.Fair winds,

 

[Rick Macdonald]

Racing is not the only reason

My comment is a bit wider in scope than just telltail reading, and is directed at sail trim in general.I chose the boat to buy before I had any sailing training. I knew that the rigging was simple (no traveller or jib rails) but I figured "Oh well, I'm not going to be racing, and my lake is only 7 miles long so I'm in no hurry to get to the other end. I later learned that I was missing a couple more common controls: no cunningham, no backstay. (BTW, Now that I know all about these controls, I would still buy the same boat for my lake sailing.)Little did I know that learning all about sail trim would be important for reasons other than racing. Specifically, depowering the sails when the wind gets strong. This translates into safety and comfort for all aboard. I think for some boats and sailors it can make the difference between heading back to the marina or staying out longer when the winds are stronger then their current comfort and confidense levels allow for.I'm very glad to be learning how all the controls affect sail trim and performance. I highly recommend getting Don's book, and being proficient at reefing and heaving-to....RickM...

 

[Don Guillette]

Look At The sail Trim Quiz

Chris Burti: I guess mates buy boats for various reasons. I assume they buy them to use them but all during last year my boat just sat at the dock due to work commitments. We were lucky to to find the time to use it as "a condo by the sea". After we found the time to use it, I encountered mechanical problems, which caused further delays in use. On the "most important" answersituation. We purposely designed the quiz that way because I could not think of any other way to do it. For example -all the telltales on the main and jib are important and that is why they are there. The top telltales on the jib are a " first indicator" of a need for a sail trim adjustemnt so they are important but the middle telltale tells you what adjustment to make so they are more important. I hope that explains our logic.

 

[Don Guillette]

Sailing Skills

Mates; Learning to sail was the most exasperating experience I've every gone through! My problem is I'm not happy just hitting a tennis ball over the net or wacking a golf ball all over the golf course. So when my wife and I decided to get back into sailing many years ago (we were into high speed jets boats previously)I was not happy with just "raising the main and rolling out the jib' and calling it sailing. The boat obviously sailed through the water but I wanted to get the most out of her that she could give. Again, this is just me. So I took sailing lessons and learned a little but still could not "see the wind". I'd ask dock neighbors questions about sail trim and the use of the sail trim controls but got further confused with their answers as they would combine things in their answers. I'd ask about twist and they'd tell me about draft position!! Additionally, they would start at step 5, go to set 2, then to step 8 and then to step 1. I hate that approach and just tune out the person talking. I need a logical, step by step approach. Next I got into racing but could not get on the good boats because of a lack of experience. I got on pick up boat crews and thought I was the only sail trim idiot on the boat. Come to find out, I had lots of company on those boatsas very few of them knew what they were doing.Anyway, to make a long story short I decided to figure it out myself. The hardest part was in the beginning when I tried to organize the vast amount of material. I saw the forrest but I needed to pick out the individual trees. After really dwelling on the stuff, the sail trim light came on and I was amazed at how simple sail trim actually is.I honestly believe that sailors would get more enjoyment out of their boats if they really knew how to sail them efficeintly. Believe me, there will come a time in their sailing experience when they get into a pickle - like trying to claw off a lee shore when the engine failed, the wind starts to blow like stink and they have no idea how to control the boat or a stay breaks - then they'll wish their actions could be automatic.You'll be amazed at how simple sail trim is if you read my book. I designed my Sail Trim Users Guide for my own use - so I can understand it. It is written in a logical and step by step manner. It will take you from beginner to high intermediate and if it doesn't, I'll give you your money back.

 

[Chris Burti]

Don...

I think your response affirms my point about time. We don't get out nearly as much as we wish, but enjoy it to the max when we can. A fellow on the C-320 list, couldn't get a diesel mechanic to return his call for almost two months, now that one has...he can't get them to come until mid August and the slip is not one that can be sailed back into safely. So, boats sit for a lot of reasons unrelated to the skills of the owner.On the quiz...I had no problem with understanding your logic on the 'importance'. I agree with your answer as applied to cruisers and mildly disagree for racers. I was inclined to answer 'all' because the relationship between all of them at any given time tells me so much more than any one of them.On the last question...please explain when a close reach, becomes a broad reach, becomes a run.Thanks again for all your helpful input,Chris

 

[Don Guillette]

Sail Trim Quiz

Chris B: Let's use the hands of a clock for ease of explanation. A boat can only sail up to about 35 to 45 degrees to the eye of the wind and the eye of the wind is 12:00. CLOSEHAULED is the bow pointing at about 1:00. A CLOSE REACH would be the bow pointing at about 1:30 to 3:00. A BEAM REACH is the bow pointing at about 3:00 so the wind is blowing right over the middle (beam) of the boat. A BROAD REACH is the bow pointing at about 3:30 to 4:45. A RUN (dead down wind) is the bow pointing at about 6:00. One last point - there is no such thing as racing sail trim and cruising sail trim. There is only a right way and a wrong way. Those are not my words but those of Dennis Connors and I com[pletely agrre with him. Good racers are constantly adjusting their sails and paying more attention to detail but the adjustment is identical to any the cruiser makes.

 

[Chris Burti]

Okie Dokie

In the context of those definitions, your answer to the quiz question now makes perfect sense to me. On another thread, the writer makes a case for learning sailing jargon cold. Like others, I have been inclined to speak plainly with the inexperienced crew that I most often sail with. As in any language, lack of use make one rusty and fuzzy and I am guilty here of forgetting about 'beam reach'.On your second point, I doubt that we disagree at all, just articulating it a bit differently. When we raced, we never cleated off the sheets. It was a constant ballet between the trimmers and the helm. Always looking for that perfect balance between optimum course and optimum speed. Looking, sniffing, feeling for every nuance of the wind and water in anticipation of every change.When I'm cruising, I seldom adjust the trim for lifts and headers unless they are going to be sustained...I just alter course a bit to keep the speed up or drop the traveller in the big puffs. Trim is set to the median of the short cycles for the desired course and for the most frequent wind range. It is not right or wrong...it's just...average.On a fifty or sixty mile shorthanded sail in these waters, this seems to produce the best time to weariness ratio for me. The water here is shallow and 20+ knots of wind common. It is important to keep the speed up when punching through the inevitable chop in these moderate displacement hulls. When you are, essentially, singlehanding and on the high side of fifty, it is also essential to conserve strength. As a result, I tend to make changes when trim is getting to be wrong rather than changing when things are less than optimal as in racing.Thanks again.

 

[Don Guillette]

Sail Trim Quiz

Chris: Yup, those definitions are a pain and I try to avoid them as much as possable but we are stuck with them just as we are in any sport - LOVE in tennis, EAGLE in golf and on and on. I tell sail trim seminar participants that it goes with sport your involved in and you have to learn them before we can proceed because that is how we converse. Some of the terms can be related to something (outhaul, mainsheet etc) until you get to CUNNINGHAM or something like that!! For those of you that don't know the basis of the that term - it was named after Briggs Cunnigham who invented it and was the skipper of the America Cup boat Columbia in 1958. It is my favorite sail trim control for the main and jib. LEECH and LUFF was named after two Irish guys I went to school with at Providence College in RI in the early 60's - I just made that up to see if anyone was reading this stuff.

 

[Roger (Ninette Manitoba)]

actually, Don

those Irish guys were eddie and duff, not leech and luff. They went on to make boats on the east coast, but eddie strayed from sailing at an early age, hence the term eddie is used now to define a back flowing current in a stream, usually off to the side, or behind a rock, which are the typical places eddie hides. Duff, as you hinted in a previous post, got right out of the watersports and went into golf, but he wasn't very good, at it, hence we now call a poor golfer a duffer... well I digress! BUT I WAS READING!